Court claim over £1000.00

[Diana M]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

The documents are attached.!

I've looked at those invoices and it's all based on the assumption that it was shoddy workmanship which caused the damage not something else, possibly caused by the driver or the vehicle's 'old age'.

The Claimant would have to prove that fact using an independent Expert agreed with you. The court will likely order a Expert's report at the CMC (if this gets allocated to the Fast Track since it's £15k).

Di

[mcqk007]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

Thank you Di,
You have been giving us an amazing help.
We didn't contact the third part because,soon we received this Invoice,we invoiced them(third part)and they complete ignored it.
At the moment we cant afford to pay a solicitor to write the letter,so we are trying to get how much help as we can.In about 2-3 weeks we probably can pay for a solicitor.

Tks!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Im glad you agree with me.Also the "Description of events "they wrote,have a couples of dates wich doesnt match with their clients description.
Tks!

- - - Updated - - -

Im glad you agree with me.Also the "Description of events "they wrote,have a couples of dates wich doesnt match with their clients description.
Tks!

[Diana M]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

Also the "Description of events "they wrote,have a couples of dates wich doesnt match with their clients description.

I know nothing about what goes on under the bonnet of a car or a coach. And even less about sump plugs and crankshafts.

However I do know that a warning light comes on as, you know, a warning that something is about to go awry. So my question would be how long did the driver continue to drive the vehicle after the warning light came on and before it ground to a halt. Did he continue to drive when he should have pulled over and stopped which may have prevented the engine crankshaft seizure?

I would expect to see the driver in court to be cross examined. This would perhaps help clear up the date discrepancies too.

You've edited post # 8 where you posted the timeline of events. Below is what you said which I quoted later in the thread:

Please see the sequence of events below.

• XXX staff carried out engine oil leak repairs to Fleet Number XXX (Reg X) completing the task on Wednesday 20th July 2016.
• On Friday 22nd July 2016 the vehicle above broke down on Thornhill estate where the driver claimed the engine light came on and the vehicle came to a stop.
• Stagecoach engineer attended and found the engine sump plug to missing and engine oil all over the road surface.
• Walls Trucks recovered the vehicle back to Cwmbran Depot within one hour of breakdown on Friday 22nd. Stagecoach engineer cleaned road surface of engine oil.
• Stagecoach engineer fitted new sump plug to engine and filled with oil only to find the engine would not start due to partial seizure of crankshaft.
• On Monday 25th July 16 Stagecoach informed XXX of vehicle failure after checking all vehicle warning devices I.E - Low oil, Low water, Engine overheat. (All working as they should)
  
  
  The vehicle mileage at the last service date on the 15th July 2016 was 6891 miles, and at time of failure on 22nd July 2016 it was 7484 miles totalling only 593 miles since last vehicle inspection.

Your Defence will probably contain two elements.

Firstly a denial that you had any contract with the Claimant.

But secondly you may need to deal with why you are not liable for the damage in case there's some quirk in the law which connects you to the Claimant (a contract).

You need to gather the evidence for both eventualities.

Di

[mcqk007]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

Tks.I already gathered what Ive about it.It isnot so much, apart from emails which they have sent to us and their client statement .

[Diana M]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

I already gathered what Ive about it.It isnot so much, apart from emails which they have sent to us and their client statement .

I think you need more than that.

You need to ask for evidence of all the items in that invoice and the statement - such as the invoice from Wall Trucks recovery service etc. Proof the replacement engine cost them £3,600 etc.

There's a big cost (over £4k) included for loss of use of engine which I assume means loss of business due to the coach being out of use? They need to prove that they had work booked in and whether they didn't have a back-up replacement coach to cover it etc etc.

This will be in the Fast Track where disclosure is both thorough and compulsory.

I suggested in post # 16 that you should send a CPR 31.14 Request or a Part 18 Request for documents. I'll suggest it again.

Before then it would make sense to send a formal CPR 31.14 Request to the Claimant for documentation to support their claim.

I expect someone on this forum can help you with that but the template letter in the Court Claim Section isn't appropriate for your special circumstances (it's basically for debts regulated by the Consumer Credit Act).

A Part 18 Request may be more appropriate since those POC sound woefully inadequate

Di

[mcqk007]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

I will do that!
I cant thank you enough.

Just a thought,if I ask for all the proves /documents can they say that I admitted my liability to the claim?

[Diana M]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

We didn't contact the third part because,soon we received this Invoice,we invoiced them(third part)and they complete ignored it

I'm still baffled as to why the Claimant has invoiced you so it's important to establish who has invoiced whom and for what.

The September invoice you've posted on the thread seems to relate to remedial work (and associated damages) carried out after the coach broke down, and not the original service/repair job which was carried out in July (?). It appears that the poor quality of that work is being blamed for the coach's subsequent overall failures.

My Questions:

1. Third Party Garage carried out the initial (pre breakdown) work. Did they issue the Claimant with an invoice when the job was done? And what was the nature of that work?

2. If so did the Claimant pay Third Party Garage at the time?

3. If so does this mean the Claimant invoiced you last September in an attempt to recover the money they paid Third Party Garage plus the cost of putting things right?

4. Or did you invoice the Claimant for the (pre breakdown) works on behalf of Third Party Garage who you had introduced to the Claimant at some point (in the past)?

5. Would the Claimant be aware that you sometimes either outsourced or passed work to Third Party Garage?

6. Has the Claimant invoiced you in the past for other work?

7. Has Third Party Garage ever carried out other work for the Claimant before?

8. If so would they have invoiced the Claimant direct or would you have invoiced on their behalf?

Di

[des8]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

I know nothing about what goes on under the bonnet of a car or a coach. And even less about sump plugs and crankshafts.

However I do know that a warning light comes on as, you know, a warning that something is about to go awry. So my question would be how long did the driver continue to drive the vehicle after the warning light came on and before it ground to a halt. Did he continue to drive when he should have pulled over and stopped which may have prevented the engine crankshaft seizure?


Di

If the sump drain plug comes out, oil will be dumped so fast the driver won't have time to notice if a warning light comes on before the engine seizes! (unless he is watching his worry gauges and lights all the time!)

[Diana M]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

If the sump drain plug comes out, oil will be dumped so fast the driver won't have time to notice if a warning light comes on before the engine seizes! (unless he is watching his worry gauges and lights all the time!)

That's useful to know

Any hypothetical suggestions as to what could cause a sump drain plug to come out? Or should I email Jeremy Clarkson?

The Claimant seems to be pinning the problem on the OP and/or the Third Party Garage mechanic who carried out the pre-breakdown works.

Is the sump drain plug fiddled with during a routine service that includes an oil change which may/may not have taken place as part of the work job carried out by Third party Garage?

(I did warn you that I know nothing about cars or coaches!)

Di

[mcqk007]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

Hi Di,

I will try make it clearer.
The Claimant has a medium Engineering Support company ,with lots of big bus companies as clients,when those clients need extra engineers,the Claimant supply them.The Claimant "contract( there isnt any formal agreement" others engineering companies and send the engineers to the client's garage.
The Defendant has a small company,only with the owner as engineer.
The Third Part,also has a small company,only the owner as engineer.
Answering your questions:

1. Third Party Garage carried out the initial (pre breakdown) work. Did they issue the Claimant with an invoice when the job was done? And what was the nature of that work ? The Third Party went to the Claimant clients garage and " done" the work what the Claimant client requested.No the Third Part didn't invoice them directly,only through the phone.

2. If so did the Claimant pay Third Party Garage at the time?No,the Claimant didnt pay for this work to the Third Part.

3. If so does this mean the Claimant invoiced you last September in an attempt to recover the money they paid Third Party Garage plus the cost of putting things right?No, as the Claimant didnt pay the Third Part,isnt to recover from the Third Part.Whom done the "recovery work" after the incident,we dont have idea.

4. Or did you invoice the Claimant for the (pre breakdown) works on behalf of Third Party Garage who you had introduced to the Claimant at some point (in the past)?Yes,we invoiced them on behalf of Third Party as the Third Part invoiced us for this service.We felt the Third part should be paid as he lives in North of England to Wales and stayed there for 3 days paying hotels.But the Claimant didn't pay it.

5. Would the Claimant be aware that you sometimes either outsourced or passed work to Third Party Garage?Yes,the Claimant know that as the Third Part worked to them before.But at previous time of the incident and at this time the Claimant contacted the Third Part directly,as the Defendant was not operating in July/middle August.
6. Has the Claimant invoiced you in the past for other work?No,the Claimant never invoiced us before.

7. Has Third Party Garage ever carried out other work for the Claimant before?The Third Part has done some work to the Claimant on the Claimant's client garage

8. If so would they have invoiced the Claimant direct or would you have invoiced on their behalf?We invoice the Claimant on their behalf


This affirmation is true

The September invoice you've posted on the thread seems to relate to remedial work (and associated damages) carried out after the coach broke down, and not the original service/repair job which was carried out in July (?). It appears that the poor quality of that work is being blamed for the coach's subsequent overall failures.

The Third Part done the work on 20th and the bus broke down 2 days after. How they can have sure the Third Party is to blame for it.
The Claimant told us the amount was claimed on their Insurance.

[des8]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

The sump drain plug is a screw threaded blank which is removed to drain the engine of oil.
If it is not tightened up to the correct torque when replacing it, it is likely to shake loose some miles down the road.
Inevitably the engine drains of oil rapidly, and will seize.
If the driver happens to spot the oil warning light as it comes on , (or if fitted the oil pressure gauge register a dramatic drop) and immediately switches off the engine, damage may be avoided.
However normal reaction is to note oil light on, wonder why, notice it isn't going out and so think about stopping somewhere safe, by which time it is too late!!

Garages now a days effect a car oil change by a suction pump through the dipstick hole, so there's no need for you to get on your hands and knees to check the drain plug is in tightly enough Diana:goodjob:

[mcqk007]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

Hi Di,

I was looking the CPR 31.14 I dont think I have enough time for that.Do you think I should send it anyway?

[Diana M]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

did you invoice the Claimant for the (pre breakdown) works on behalf of Third Party Garage?

Yes,we invoiced them on behalf of Third Party

^ ^ ^ Your answer to my question may be the crux of the matter as to whom may be liable for any claim (which has yet to be proved).

If you invoiced the Claimant then you may have created a contract. You may not. But that legal situation needs to be explored.

I'll leave it to the petrolheads on this forum to consider whether the pre breakdown works could have contributed to any subsequent breakdown consequences.

Di

[mcqk007]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

Thank you.I still can send CPR18?I dont have so much time left.

[Diana M]

Re: Court claim over £1000.00

their solicitor is Thomas Higgins

Thomas Higgins is a business which offers a '100% Free Debt Collection" service on a No Win No Fee basis to the wannabe Claimant.

They will not give up without a fight http://www.thomashiggins.com/pages/b...n-process.aspx

From their website >

Free Debt Collection There is a quiet revolution happening in the recovery of legal costs where it is necessary to take court action against a debtor. Due to a small change in regulations, the debtor is now liable to pay all costs of default proceedings. What this means for you is 100% free debt collection on successful recovery with Thomas Higgins Limited.
Under the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 you are entitled to claim back the costs involved with recovering your debts. Our Late Payment Demand letter not only instructs the debtor to pay the debt owed within 7 days, but enables you to recover the costs of using our services at various stages of the collection process. Therefore by choosing Thomas Higgins Limited for your debt recovery, there is no need for you to be out of pocket for chasing money that should be yours anyway. With a successful claim, not only are our costs covered, but as we don't charge commission or a percentage, you will receive all of what is retrieved from the debtor and at no extra cost.
Wait! That’s not all. By sending one of our Late Payment Demands to your debtor you are also able to claim compensation and additional interest on each of your outstanding invoices. You are entitled to claim £40 to £100 in compensation per invoice and interest at 8% above the Bank of England's base rate, all in addition to the original debt amount and legal costs. With Thomas Higgins Limited acting on your behalf, not only can debt collection be free, but you can actual recovery much more than the original debt amount, which should help go towards easing the strain of invoices being paid late or not being paid at all.

Did you know that even if an invoice has been fully paid, you may still be entitled to claim compensation and additional interest? If payment was received after the due date of an invoice then you could still claim £40 to £100 compensation per invoice. By issuing one of our Late Payment Demands we could recover money that you didn’t even know you were owed.
We recommend that you review your old invoices and see which ones were paid late. Your invoices may have been paid in full, but did you claim compensation for late payment? Under the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 you are entitled to claim compensation and interest at 8% above the Bank of England's base rate on each of your late paid invoices. If you're concerned about the costs of claiming compensation, you need not worry, because if you issue a Late Payment Demand through Thomas Higgins Limited then you can also recovery the legal costs involved, meaning that you can claim compensation and additional interest for free if your claim is successful.


. . . . and so on . . . .

Did the invoices you received in September and October 2016 come from Thomas Higgins?

Di