Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set aside.

[Calibre112]

Hello everyone,

In 2009, I got a job in another country and moved away from the UK. I informed my bank of my relocation, but allowed them continue to send my post to my old address because I visited the address whenever I returned to London from time to time. In 2012, I requested that the bank begin sending all correspondence to a new UK address where I would have more regular access to post.

In late September this year, a resident at my former apartment (who happens to be a friend of mine) informed me that I had numerous letters there. Upon retrieving them, I found that Mortimer Clarke Solicitors had filed a CCJ application against me. MCS is acting on behalf of Cabot Financial (UK) Limited. CF had issued me a credit card through Citibank and there was an outstanding debt on this card that I had neglected to pay whilst away.

MCS had been attempting to reach me at my old address and had taken action since I had not responded. I took a few days to read through the various letters they had sent me and research the implications of a CCJ. I then contacted them by email to explain the circumstances above, but they informed me a default judgment had already been obtained on 15/09/2016 ordering me to pay £50 a month. I would like to pay this debt and have my record clean again.

The total debt is £3308, so at this rate it would take 67 months to clear it. I would like to offer them a lump sum payment on the condition that they will consent to having the CCJ set aside. But as £3308 is a rather large sum and I cannot afford to pay it all right away, I intend to offer between £2000 and £2500. I have not made any proposal or payment to them yet and I realise that the one-month window for payment to clear the CCJ has already passed.

I understand that I may be able to have the CCJ set aside whether or not they consent if I can prove my circumstances, but I do not want to have to deal with the court proceedings. From what I have read, if both parties consent to having the CCJ set aside and both parties are represented by legal counsel, the set-aside would be routinely carried out through an administrative procedure, not requiring the discretion of a judge. This sounds to me like the set-aside would more or less be automatic in such cases, so this is my preferred route.

So, my question is how do I make this happen.

More specifically:

1. If I make this proposal to MCS and they agree, they might ask me to pay the agreed sum before beginning the process. Should I insist on paying after the set-aside or does this not have any impact on the application?

2. If they consent to my proposal what legal paperwork needs to be filed and who is expected to file this paperwork — me or them? Could I request that they file the paperwork as part of our settlement agreement?

3. Is my understanding correct — that a set-aside by consent where both parties are represented by legal counsel is carried out routinely without the requirement of approval by a judge and therefore is automatically approved?

Ultimately, I just want to get this matter resolved and have my file clean. I am still working and living abroad, so I will be unable to attend court appointments, hence my preference for an automatic route and for not filing paperwork myself.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or insight. And thank you for reading my post.

[charitynjw]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

Hi Calibre112 & welcome to LB.

MC are part of the Cabot Group.
As CF(UK) are the Judgment Creditor, I guess you should deal directly with them.

......but I do not want to have to deal with the court proceedings.

A set-aside, if allowed, will bring the status back to a 'live claim' position, so you would thenl need to become involved in the legal process.

[nemesis45]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

Hi,

What do you mean "CF had issued a credit card through Citi Bank" if the CF you refer to is Cabot Financial they are a DEBT PURCHASE company and they don't issue credit cards.

It will be Cabot that makes the decision on any offer of payment.

As [MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] has said it's not as easy as it seems.

nem

[Calibre112]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

Hi guys, thanks for responding. @nemesis45, I always though CF was the creditor - perhaps I'm mistaken.

I'll just clarify a couple things.
- I have not received any communication from CF(UK), so I am only in contact with MC. So I intend to make my offer of payment to them.
- Not that I don't want to be involved, I am just not living in the UK at the moment so it would be difficult to attend any court appointments, so I would prefer to not have it in court at all.

A set-aside, if allowed, will bring the status back to a 'live claim' position, so you would thenl need to become involved in the legal process.

[MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] that sounds like if I go the N244 route and they do not object to it, the case would still be in court and I would have to put in a defence. That's better than a CCJ, but not the outcome I am hoping for. I would like to essentially have the court process set aside so that I can pay CF(UK)/MC directly without having any adverse entries on my record.

I posted in another forum and someone suggested a Consent Order might be the way to go. If I understand you correctly, if MC/CF agree to settle out of court, then the easiest way is to do so is for them to file a Consent Order to set aside the CCJ, after which I can pay them directly without the adverse impact of a CCJ on record.

Does this sound to you like the best route to take?

Also, what does a Consent Order essentially mean? Is it still some sort of court order against me?

[charitynjw]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

AfaIk, unless both parties had legal representation, a set aside requires court approval. (That's my interpretation of CPR 40.6 anyway).

The judgment creditor is CF(UK)......now that judgment has been made on this issue, MC might not want to deal with it. (Who would pay them for their extra time etc?).

A Consent Order is pretty much as it says on the tin.....an agreement between the parties to settle on terms.

If you are successful with a set aside app, the current CCJ will no longer be applicable & the case will be relisted.
You could then use court mediation to negotiate, especially if the other party agrees to a reduced figure settlement.

& my reading of [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] post is that CF did/does not issue credit cards. That does not mean they cannot be a creditor via assignment of the debt. (See Consumer Credit Act definitions s189)

[nemesis45]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

Hi guys, thanks for responding. @nemesis45, I always though CF was the creditor - perhaps I'm mistaken.

I'll just clarify a couple things.
- I have not received any communication from CF(UK), so I am only in contact with MC. So I intend to make my offer of payment to them.
- Not that I don't want to be involved, I am just not living in the UK at the moment so it would be difficult to attend any court appointments, so I would prefer to not have it in court at all.


@charitynjw that sounds like if I go the N244 route and they do not object to it, the case would still be in court and I would have to put in a defence. That's better than a CCJ, but not the outcome I am hoping for. I would like to essentially have the court process set aside so that I can pay CF(UK)/MC directly without having any adverse entries on my record.

I posted in another forum and someone suggested a Consent Order might be the way to go. If I understand you correctly, if MC/CF agree to settle out of court, then the easiest way is to do so is for them to file a Consent Order to set aside the CCJ, after which I can pay them directly without the adverse impact of a CCJ on record.

Does this sound to you like the best route to take?

Also, what does a Consent Order essentially mean? Is it still some sort of court order against me?

Cabot Financial has bought the debt in a very large portfolio of delinquent accounts.

Mortimer Clarke is a " firm" of solicitors which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Cabot Financial Management the parent company.

Did you have an account with Citi at anytime?

nem

[Calibre112]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

@nemesis45 yes, I did and still do have an account with Citi, through which the initial credit was extended to me.
@charitynjw MC seems to be willing to enter into a negotiation on behalf of CF(UK). The letter they sent me by email states:

If the instalments of £50 per month are not affordable for you, please find enclosed an income and expenditure form for you to complete and return together with offer of payment

So, irrespective of the CCJ, it would seem that there is still an open line of communication between us, so they might welcome an offer of lump sump payment to discuss with CF(UK). However, I am still unclear about which route would be more likely to succeed.
(i) Do I propose to MC (with whom I appear to be in talks) to pay a concessionary lump sum on the condition that they file a CO to set aside the CCJ.
OR
(ii) Do I propose to MC to pay a concessionary lump sum on the condition that they will not oppose my N244 application to set aside the CCJ.

If my understanding of both of these routes is correct, then it sounds like (i) is the way to go because it would achieve both setting aside the CCJ and staying the court proceedings with the CO. Whereas, (ii) would set aside the CCJ and reboot the court proceedings, requiring me to enter a defence or take some other step.

Or are there still gaps in my understanding?

[nemesis45]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

@nemesis45 yes, I did and still do have an account with Citi, through which the initial credit was extended to me.
@charitynjw MC seems to be willing to enter into a negotiation on behalf of CF(UK). The letter they sent me by email states:

If the instalments of £50 per month are not affordable for you, please find enclosed an income and expenditure form for you to complete and return together with offer of payment

So, irrespective of the CCJ, it would seem that there is still an open line of communication between us, so they might welcome an offer of lump sump payment to discuss with CF(UK). However, I am still unclear about which route would be more likely to succeed.
(i) Do I propose to MC (with whom I appear to be in talks) to pay a concessionary lump sum on the condition that they file a CO to set aside the CCJ.
OR
(ii) Do I propose to MC to pay a concessionary lump sum on the condition that they will not oppose my N244 application to set aside the CCJ.

If my understanding of both of these routes is correct, then it sounds like (i) is the way to go because it would achieve both setting aside the CCJ and staying the court proceedings with the CO. Whereas, (ii) would set aside the CCJ and reboot the court proceedings, requiring me to enter a defence or take some other step.

Or are there still gaps in my understanding?

What you need to do is propose a Full & Final Settlement with the proviso that the CCJ will be set aside by consent.
It must be conditional on.

1. Any remaining balance is not to be sold onto any 3rd party .

2. Credit Reference files are to be marked settled not satisfied ( All defaulted entries are removed from files on the 6th anniversary of the default date)

3. The offer is made as a gesture of good will and without any admission of liability.

Start your offer at no more than 15% of the balance to give you room to negotiate, it will draw out what they are likely to accept.

nem

[Calibre112]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

Thanks for this advice. Just a few more questions...

What you need to do is propose a Full & Final Settlement with the proviso that the CCJ will be set aside by consent. In this case would the set aside be achieved through the N244 route or through a Consent Order (I assume that they are different processes or would the CO still require filing an N244)? And would I be able to request that they file the necessary documents or is that not even in my interest?
It must be conditional on.

1. Any remaining balance is not to be sold onto any 3rd party .

2. Credit Reference files are to be marked settled not satisfied ( All defaulted entries are removed from files on the 6th anniversary of the default date) Okay, so regardless of the CCJ, there are still credit default entries that won't go away for some time. This all happened between 2008 and 2011 anyway, so they must be close to expiring, right?

3. The offer is made as a gesture of good will and without any admission of liability.

Start your offer at no more than 15% of the balance to give you room to negotiate, it will draw out what they are likely to accept.

nem

Better to do this in writing via email or over the telephone?

[nemesis45]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

Thanks for this advice. Just a few more questions...



Better to do this in writing via email or over the telephone?

In writing by post would be best ( e-mails to debt companies go astray quite often) If you do e-mail request a receipt.

The credit file entries showing defaults will be removed after 6 years paid or not.
BY consent and it's cheaper and if you file the docs your elf.

nem

[Calibre112]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

Thanks for this. Will start the process and give feedback on how I get on.

[Diana M]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

Or are there still gaps in my understanding?

Possibly

No offence intended but this is now about timing and tactics.

Don't make a hasty decision on how to handle this situation.

Unless there's an urgency to sort this I would caution 'more haste less speed' until the full facts have been established.

Lawyers tend to go with a Good Cop Bad Cop routine. Don't reveal your hand (a financial offer) at the start of negotiations.

So far from what you say Mortimer Clarke solicitors may have erred. Reminding them of that (and the potential legal consequences) could be the start of where you go from here.

Successful negotiation is about gaining the moral high ground at the beginning. It seems you may have the moral high ground.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

a credit card through Citibank and there was an outstanding debt on this card that I had neglected to pay whilst away.

I understand that I may be able to have the CCJ set aside whether or not they consent .

When did you open the Citibank credit card account? Could it have been before April 2007?

Now that you have a CCJ the creditor is not obliged to respond or comply with a section 78 CCA Request.

If the CCJ were to be set aside then you can hit them with a s.78 CCA Request.

If the creditor/ Claimant (Cabot) cannot comply with your request then the debt will be unenforceable until or unless they do.

If the CCJ is set aside then you will have the opportunity to file a Defence. Maybe (who knows) that Defence could be non compliance with s.78 CCA Request.

That's the reason why I'm saying more haste less speed.

Di

[Calibre112]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

Hey Di...

I do have a bit of urgency. I would like for this not to linger beyond the first week of next month. I suppose if there is a way to significantly limit what I end up paying, I would certainly be happy to explore it, but ultimately I am willing to make some sort of reasonable payment to have this over and done with in a way that does not involve a CCJ or anything nearly as damaging.

When did you open the Citibank credit card account? Could it have been before April 2007?

The credit card account with Citi was opened in 2006.

Getting the CCJ set aside without consent doesn't sound like it would be an easy process. Would it be sufficient to demonstrate that I had provided Citi with my new postal address, but CF(UK) neglected to send notices to this address? Would I be required to have sent this address to CF(UK) as well for such a defence to be tenable? I may be able to dig up a letter or two sent by Citi to the new address as proof that I did indeed provide it to them. In fact, I have just found one such letter - one of those sheets onto which they stick on your new debit card. The letter has a date stamp on the bottom right corner of the reverse side showing "01/2016" — well before the dates on the court notices sent by MC to the old address.

Furthermore, in my first (and only) communication with MC since retrieving mails from my old address I brought to their attention the fact that I no longer resided at that address and that I had informed Citi of this. In their subsequent letter to me (which was sent by email), they addressed me at the new address. Could this be taken as an admission of error on their part?

Could these facts be sufficient grounds for a set-aside? If so, then what would you advise?

Reveal this evidence to MC and request they file a consent order, or begin the set aside procedure myself? And then when successful, issue MC/CF(UK) a s.78 CCA request and then wait it out? And then make an offer along the lines of [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION]'s advice, in the event that they are able to respond to the request?

Now with seemingly more options, it's even less clear how to go about this :tinysmile_cry_t:

[Diana M]

Re: Got CCJ default judgment while living abroad. Want to pay lump sum and get set as

Hey Di... I do have a bit of urgency. I would like for this not to linger beyond the first week of next month

Why?

What is the significance of the first week of next month?

Di