**DISCONTINUED!!** PRA Group Letter Before Claim

[Sleeplessnights]

Hello

Another request for help please.

I have received a letter from PRA Group informing me that an account has been transferred to the investigations and Litigation Department. They say it is a letter before claim as required by the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Protocols.

It goes on to state "You will recall that you entered into a written agreement numbered xxxxxxxxx on or about 25/04/03 with MBNA ("the Creditor"). The agreement was regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974."

I have no copies of any paperwork relating to this, so I am going to send this letter - thanks again to the person who wrote the original.

I am am just wondering if it is still appropriate given that they have stated it is a letter before claim - or should I amend the first part? Also am I have some false hope in latching onto the fact that they say I entered into an agreement "on or about 25/04/03" - does this mean perhaps they cannot in fact supply a copy of the credit agreement?

Thanks as as ever for any advice.

Dear Sirs,


Your Ref: xxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated 24/06/16, which I received on 29/06/16 As the letter contains a threat of litigation, it is being treated as a formal letter before action. As such, I refer you to paragraph 1 of the Practice Direction Pre-Action Conduct, which states the purpose of such a letter is to "enable the parties to settle the issues between them" and to encourage the parties to "exchange information".

Paragraph 2.2 (1) of Annex A states you have an obligation to "list the essential documents on which the Claimant intends to rely". I could not identify such a list in your letter, please list the documents so I can see your case against me and request copies of anything that I may need.

Paragraph 3.2 (3) of Annex A allows me to "request further information to enable me to provide a full response". My request is a request for documents as the information I require would come from those documents. Paragraph 5.1 of Annex A states that you should "provide the documents requested within as short a period of time as is practicable or explain in writing why the documents will not be provided".

I require copies of the following:

The Original Credit Agreement;
The Default Notice;
The Termination Notice;
The Notice of Assignment;
Statements of Account;

These documents would be expected to be supplied if proceedings were issued and would likely be in your possession if you were issuing a claim. If you consider that there is difficulty in providing a copy of a document, please identify that document and the reason. Additionally, there is a duty to supply documents under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. A request has been made under s.77-79 on 29/06/2016 and I am awaiting a response.

Please take note that the enclosed Postal Order Number xxxxxxxx is for the statutory fee of £1.00 required for my request made under the provisions of sections 77/78 of CCA 1974.

If this fee is not required for the request it must be returned to me forthwith, it must not be allocated to the alleged debt as a payment.

I shall be able to provide you with a full response to your letter within 14 days of receipt of the documents listed above and also reserve the right to refer to the contents of this letter if proceedings are issued without first providing copy documents to me.

Yours faithfully


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Once again, thanks for the advice

[nemesis45]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Hi,

Yes that's fine!

Is the letter from PRA a 3rd party company or a solicitor?

nem

[Guest]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Hello

Another request for help please.

I have received a letter from PRA Group informing me that an account has been transferred to the investigations and Litigation Department. They say it is a letter before claim as required by the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Protocols.

It goes on to state "You will recall that you entered into a written agreement numbered xxxxxxxxx on or about 25/04/03 with MBNA ("the Creditor"). The agreement was regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974."

I have no copies of any paperwork relating to this, so I am going to send this letter - thanks again to the person who wrote the original.

I am am just wondering if it is still appropriate given that they have stated it is a letter before claim - or should I amend the first part? Also am I have some false hope in latching onto the fact that they say I entered into an agreement "on or about 25/04/03" - does this mean perhaps they cannot in fact supply a copy of the credit agreement?

Thanks as as ever for any advice.

Dear Sirs,

Your Ref: xxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated 24/06/16, which I received on 29/06/16 As the letter contains a threat of litigation, it is being treated as a formal letter before action. As such, I refer you to paragraph 1 of the Practice Direction Pre-Action Conduct, which states the purpose of such a letter is to "enable the parties to settle the issues between them" and to encourage the parties to "exchange information".

Paragraph 2.2 (1) of Annex A states you have an obligation to "list the essential documents on which the Claimant intends to rely". I could not identify such a list in your letter, please list the documents so I can see your case against me and request copies of anything that I may need.

Paragraph 3.2 (3) of Annex A allows me to "request further information to enable me to provide a full response". My request is a request for documents as the information I require would come from those documents. Paragraph 5.1 of Annex A states that you should "provide the documents requested within as short a period of time as is practicable or explain in writing why the documents will not be provided".

I require copies of the following:

The Original Credit Agreement;
The Default Notice;
The Termination Notice;
The Notice of Assignment;
Statements of Account;

These documents would be expected to be supplied if proceedings were issued and would likely be in your possession if you were issuing a claim. If you consider that there is difficulty in providing a copy of a document, please identify that document and the reason. Additionally, there is a duty to supply documents under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. A request has been made under s.77-79 on 29/06/2016 and I am awaiting a response.

You seem to have come across an old response letter, the one above is a bit outdated now. The two paragraphs highlighted above are no longer part of the pre-action conduct. This is a more up to date version of the letter: http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...619#post657619

Please take note that the enclosed Postal Order Number xxxxxxxx is for the statutory fee of £1.00 required for my request made under the provisions of sections 77/78 of CCA 1974.

If this fee is not required for the request it must be returned to me forthwith, it must not be allocated to the alleged debt as a payment.

I shall be able to provide you with a full response to your letter within 14 days of receipt of the documents listed above and also reserve the right to refer to the contents of this letter if proceedings are issued without first providing copy documents to me.

Yours faithfully

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Once again, thanks for the advice

Yes that's fine!

Not quite, the above letter was actually two letters blended into one and they should be two completely separate letters. One is the CCA request which is the one that carries the £1 fee, the other is the response to a letter before action under the pre-action conduct, which doesn't require a fee.

• The CCA request is made under s78(1) of the CCA
• The response to a letter before action is provided under the pre-action conduct which is a part of the Civil Procedure Rules

The two are separate items of legislation so separate letters are required, although you will refer to your CCA request in the other letter. For the avoidance of doubt, I shall post the two letters separately. The letters should be sent recorded delivery.

Normally you'd send the CCA request to the CREDITOR and the LBA response to the SOLICITORS who wrote the letter of claim, however, PRA seem to have an in-house legal team. If the letter before action was sent by PRA themselves with using an external law firm, then the two letters can be sent together.

[Guest]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Updated response to the letter before action (no fee) below:

Dear Sirs

Ref: xxxx

Thank you for your letter dated 21/06/2016. As the letter contains a threat of litigation, it is being treated as a formal letter before action. As such, I refer you to paragraph 3 of the Practice Direction Pre-Action Conduct, which states: “before commencing proceedings, the court will expect the parties to have exchanged sufficient information to (a) understand each other’s position; (b) make decisions about how to proceed;”Paragraph 6 states “the parties should exchange correspondence and information to comply with the objectives“ and Paragraph 6 (c) of refers to “the parties disclosing key documents relevant to the issues in dispute.” My request refers to the documents I require to obtain the necessary information to assess my position in this case.

I require copies of the following:

• The original credit agreement;
• The Default Notice
• The Notice of Assignment;
• Statements of account;

These documents would be expected to be supplied if proceedings were issued and would likely be in your possession if you were issuing a claim. If you consider that there is difficulty in providing a copy of a document, please identify that document and the reason. Additionally, there is a duty to supply documents under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. A request has been made under s.78 on [DATE YOU SENT THE CCA REQUEST] and I am awaiting a response.

I shall be able to provide you with a full response to your letter within 14 days of receipt of the documents listed above and also reserve the right to refer to the contents of this letter if proceedings are issued without first providing copy documents to me.

Yours faithfully,

[Guest]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

This is the CCA request that requires the £1 fee:

Dear Sirs,

Re: Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Please treat this letter as a formal request for you to supply a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement as is my entitlement under sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit.

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.


Yours faithfully,

[Sleeplessnights]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Hi,

Yes that's fine!

Is the letter from PRA a 3rd party company or a solicitor?

nem

Hi Nem

Thanks for the speedy response. From what I understand PRA is a debt collection agency. In their letter it says "By an assignment in writing dated 21/03/13, the Creditor assigned the debt to PRA Group." They go on to say that they and MBNA then informed me of this in writing - I have no recall of this.

Unfortunately I haven't yet worked out how to upload a photo/scan to post a redacted copy of their letter.

[Guest]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Hi Nem

Thanks for the speedy response. From what I understand PRA is a debt collection agency. In their letter it says "By an assignment in writing dated 21/03/13, the Creditor assigned the debt to PRA Group." They go on to say that they and MBNA then informed me of this in writing - I have no recall of this.

Unfortunately I haven't yet worked out how to upload a photo/scan to post a redacted copy of their letter.

PRA is a debt purchaser rather than just debt collectors, that means they are the creditor and own the account. Debt collectors merely act on behalf of their clients. When a debt is assigned (sold), they should send you a letter known as a notice of assignment. That is one of the documents you are asking for in your response to their letter before action. Responding to such letters with a request for paperwork puts the ball firmly in their court without admitting anything and shows that you are likely to defend any claim they may consider issuing. With a bit of luck, it should make them move on to easier prey.

[Sleeplessnights]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

PRA is a debt purchaser rather than just debt collectors, that means they are the creditor and own the account. Debt collectors merely act on behalf of their clients. When a debt is assigned (sold), they should send you a letter known as a notice of assignment. That is one of the documents you are asking for in your response to their letter before action. Responding to such letters with a request for paperwork puts the ball firmly in their court without admitting anything and shows that you are likely to defend any claim they may consider issuing. With a bit of luck, it should make them move on to easier prey.

Thanks [MENTION=86454]freshfield[/MENTION] - that clarifies things. I am finding this is all rather confusing, hence my being on here looking for advice. Thanks also for the advice regarding separating out the letters as above, much appreciated.

[nemesis45]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Hi Nem

Thanks for the speedy response. From what I understand PRA is a debt collection agency. In their letter it says "By an assignment in writing dated 21/03/13, the Creditor assigned the debt to PRA Group." They go on to say that they and MBNA then informed me of this in writing - I have no recall of this.

Unfortunately I haven't yet worked out how to upload a photo/scan to post a redacted copy of their letter.

Good morning,

The PRA Group is a Debt Purchaser, but portfolios of delinquent accounts from creditors.

I'll ask [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] a member of the LB team who's expert on getting documents on to the forum to help you.
[MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] can you assist please.

Nem

[Kati]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Hi Nem

Thanks for the speedy response. From what I understand PRA is a debt collection agency. In their letter it says "By an assignment in writing dated 21/03/13, the Creditor assigned the debt to PRA Group." They go on to say that they and MBNA then informed me of this in writing - I have no recall of this.

Unfortunately I haven't yet worked out how to upload a photo/scan to post a redacted copy of their letter.

Good morning,

The PRA Group is a Debt Purchaser, but portfolios of delinquent accounts from creditors.

I'll ask @Kati a member of the LB team who's expert on getting documents on to the forum to help you.
@Kati can you assist please.

Nem

Of course If you want to email the letter to me (kati@legalbeagles/info) with a link to this thread I'll happily upload it for you

[nemesis45]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Of course If you want to email the letter to me (kati@legalbeagles/info) with a link to this thread I'll happily upload it for you

Thank you Kati xx

nem

[Sleeplessnights]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Of course If you want to email the letter to me (kati@legalbeagles/info) with a link to this thread I'll happily upload it for you

Thanks Kati

I think I might have worked out how to attach them - will give it a go, otherwise I will take you up on your kind offer of emailing them to you.

[Sleeplessnights]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Hello [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] and anyone else reading, a plea for urgent help! I am in a bit of a fluster. County Court Claim received.

A bit long winded, please bear with me.

Further to the above posts regarding this same matter - on 06/07/2016 I received back a letter from PRA saying they had requested the required information in relation to Copy of Agreement. They returned the £1 postal order saying it was not required. Along with this letter was a standard printed form from them headed "Requested information about your original credit agreement?" One section sub headed "What happens if you don't get this information?" Says "If you still owe us money and you don't get what you are entitled to after 12 working days, then your debt is classified as "unenforceable" until you get the information you asked for. A further sub section entitled "What does unenforceable mean?" Says that they cannot secure a county court judgement.

The only further correspondence from them is a letter dated 28/07/2016 enclosing some copies of credit card statements for only a few months covering 2012/2013. The body of the letter contains the following "We enclose documentation received to date and are awaiting further documentation to complete your request. I can confirm you will receive no further contact from PRA Group Limited until the requested information has been supplied to you." There was no letter of assignment etc which surely they should have on file if they sent it as they claim.

So, having received the above on the 30th of July I left home to visit a sick elderly relative, sadly now deceased, and stayed on for the funeral.

Shocked this morning on opening the mail that arrived while I was away to find a County Court Claim Form from Northampton form PRA Group for this alleged debt, dated 27/07/2016 - the day before the letter they sent telling me they were waiting for the rest of the documents I had requested. The credit reference number and name of alleged original debt owner MBNA all match, but for some reason the amount has jumped from £2,052.88 to £2,602.72, to which they are adding a court fee of £105.00 and Legal representative's cost of £80.00. making a total claimed of £2,787.72!

Thankfully I have returned home in time before I guess they would automatically give a judgment against me for not responding. Should I now ask for more time to respond? Or just enter a defence straight away? My thoughts are that they have received a request for all relevant information already. They have responded and acknowledged that they have not supplied everything required legally, so can I just ask that on that basis they have no right to make the claim and ask for it to be refused? I am feeling really bullied at the moment.

Can someone please help me in wording a reply - I will take time later today when I can to look back on old posts to get some guidance. Will plain English do, or is it better put in more formal legal terms?

Thanks in advance as ever for all the help. I really would be tearing my hair out without this website to refer to.

[charitynjw]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Hi

Have you filed an acknowledgement with the court.

If not, do so asap. (Like, now!)

Also phone the court to make sure a default judgement has not been given.
[MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] .......any further comments, please?

[nemesis45]

Re: PRA Group Letter Before Claim

Hello @nemesis45 @Kati and anyone else reading, a plea for urgent help! I am in a bit of a fluster. County Court Claim received.

A bit long winded, please bear with me.

Further to the above posts regarding this same matter - on 06/07/2016 I received back a letter from PRA saying they had requested the required information in relation to Copy of Agreement. They returned the £1 postal order saying it was not required. Along with this letter was a standard printed form from them headed "Requested information about your original credit agreement?" One section sub headed "What happens if you don't get this information?" Says "If you still owe us money and you don't get what you are entitled to after 12 working days, then your debt is classified as "unenforceable" until you get the information you asked for. A further sub section entitled "What does unenforceable mean?" Says that they cannot secure a county court judgement.

The only further correspondence from them is a letter dated 28/07/2016 enclosing some copies of credit card statements for only a few months covering 2012/2013. The body of the letter contains the following "We enclose documentation received to date and are awaiting further documentation to complete your request. I can confirm you will receive no further contact from PRA Group Limited until the requested information has been supplied to you." There was no letter of assignment etc which surely they should have on file if they sent it as they claim.

So, having received the above on the 30th of July I left home to visit a sick elderly relative, sadly now deceased, and stayed on for the funeral.

Shocked this morning on opening the mail that arrived while I was away to find a County Court Claim Form from Northampton form PRA Group for this alleged debt, dated 27/07/2016 - the day before the letter they sent telling me they were waiting for the rest of the documents I had requested. The credit reference number and name of alleged original debt owner MBNA all match, but for some reason the amount has jumped from £2,052.88 to £2,602.72, to which they are adding a court fee of £105.00 and Legal representative's cost of £80.00. making a total claimed of £2,787.72!

Thankfully I have returned home in time before I guess they would automatically give a judgment against me for not responding. Should I now ask for more time to respond? Or just enter a defence straight away? My thoughts are that they have received a request for all relevant information already. They have responded and acknowledged that they have not supplied everything required legally, so can I just ask that on that basis they have no right to make the claim and ask for it to be refused? I am feeling really bullied at the moment.

Can someone please help me in wording a reply - I will take time later today when I can to look back on old posts to get some guidance. Will plain English do, or is it better put in more formal legal terms?

Thanks in advance as ever for all the help. I really would be tearing my hair out without this website to refer to.

Hello again,

Sorry to hear of your loss indeed it is depressing I know having attended a funeral of a good friend a few days ago!

This is typical PRA Crap!!

Send a letter before claim while having already putting the claim into NCCBC giving you no time to adequately respond.

Please be very careful with the time limits imposed in the claim process any delays PRA propose are not agreed extensions of time to properly respond the court process continues regardless.

Which solicitors is acting for PRA, Robert Marr?
As PRA acknowledge that they don't have the agreement the debt remains unenforceable via the courts, BUT it does not mean the debt does not exist.


You should start now by looking at the defence templates in the green box at the top of the main forum page to give you an insight on content and format for your defence.
Have you sent a CPR 31.14 request for inspection of the documents mentioned in the particulars of claim?

I would not reply to that letter.

nem