Bankruptcy

[Mmmmm1]

Re: Bankruptcy

Ha thanks open law
i have come across Milroy....and i understand it be the cornerstone of uk trust law, but milroy has had so many additions and changes due to susequent cases through the years that it is a bit beyond my understaning and i dont think it can be singularly relied upon. I would need some expert help on that

[Openlaw15]

Re: Bankruptcy

Ha thanks open law
i have come across Milroy....and i understand it be the cornerstone of uk trust law, but milroy has had so many additions and changes due to susequent cases through the years that it is a bit beyond my understaning and i dont think it can be singularly relied upon. I would need some expert help on that

Milroy is the main precedent for declaring trusts. There are two ways to effect a trust, ie for it to be constituted. One is when title passes from owner to another (appoint another that is) to hold on trust for someone else. The other option is self declaration. If you want to know where my knowledge comes from. Read my profile.

[Mmmmm1]

Re: Bankruptcy

Ok thanks for your help open law

[Openlaw15]

Re: Bankruptcy

Ok thanks for your help open law

For your reference, an Official Receiver is not necessarily a qualified lawyer but may in fact have a qualification in accountancy, whereas a legal practitioner is. So, if the official receiver were to question your express trust because it is not made by a deed, it's because they have never studied a law degree and so you will have to prove your case.

[Mmmmm1]

Re: Bankruptcy

Ok thax again for your help openlaw
if he is an accountant i will direct him to that hmrc link i sent you. Hahhaa
and to to his own website i linked yesterday!

[Openlaw15]

Re: Bankruptcy

Ok thax again for your help openlaw
if he is an accountant i will direct him to that hmrc link i sent you. Hahhaa
and to to his own website i linked yesterday!

I didn't quite mean an accountant per se ha ha. An official receiver may have a degree in any subject or specialist qualification such as accountancy or an NVQ 3 or possibly in a related subject. My point is unless they have studied a qualifying law degree their knowledge will not be soo substantive to your detriment. They will likely use the technical manual for guidance but the guidance only relates to deed trusts, sometimes referred to 'trust instrument.' Be prepared to challenge them if need be, is my main point.

[Mmmmm1]

Re: Bankruptcy

Yes absolutley openlaw.. I have alot of info at hand now thanx to you and a few other people, and i will get confirmation to from a paid property law specialist

[Openlaw15]

Re: Bankruptcy

Yes absolutley openlaw.. I have alot of info at hand now thanx to you and a few other people, and i will get confirmation to from a paid property law specialist

Great to hear, it's what they get paid for!

[Mmmmm1]

Re: Bankruptcy

Thankyou openlaw..
do you happen to know Any examples of any other actual case law to back this up?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Bankruptcy

Thankyou openlaw..
do you happen to know Any examples of any other actual case law to back this up?

i'll get back to you

[Mmmmm1]

Re: Bankruptcy

Thanyou

all i can find is the following link.. But cant really make head nor tail of it.. It lists a lot case law where the validity of a declaration is challenged

http://www.******publishing.co.uk/sy.../141/Shams.pdf

[Openlaw15]

Re: Bankruptcy

Thanyou

all i can find is the following link.. But cant really make head nor tail of it.. It lists a lot case law where the validity of a declaration is challenged

http://www.******publishing.co.uk/sy.../141/Shams.pdf

In judge Neuberger J.'s words in National Westminister Bank PLC v Jones "Because a finding of sham carries with it a finding of dishonesty, because innocent third parties may often rely upon the genuineness of a provision or an agreement, and because the court places great weight on the existence and provisions of a formally signed document, there is a strong and natural presumption against holding a provision or a document a sham’. "

This is saying that where a declaration of trust is genuine and formally signed document, ie by yourself with a genuine interest in the trust protecting your mother's home, then any other person has to prove it's not genuine.

[Mmmmm1]

Re: Bankruptcy

Thanx open law

[Mmmmm1]

Re: Bankruptcy

Just a little update
firstly a note for debt camel . I have spoken to the insolvelvency helpline who have advised that ALL legal debts can be included in bankruptcy. You might want to investigate that further for your website. X

as for my situation.....i have been advised that a constructive trust should come into play anyway via operation of law because the deposit was paid by my mother via undervalue of the the property when it was given to me which should wipe out in equity

because the deposit was paid via undervalue there is a possibilty it could get a little complicated bcos it was transfered from my sister to me, but my mom will be making a claim on that money..( there should enough solicitors letters to show was also mothers property when sister owned it...

[Openlaw15]

Re: Bankruptcy

Just a little update
firstly a note for debt camel . I have spoken to the insolvelvency helpline who have advised that ALL legal debts can be included in bankruptcy. You might want to investigate that further for your website. X

as for my situation.....i have been advised that a constructive trust should come into play anyway via operation of law because the deposit was paid by my mother via undervalue of the the property when it was given to me which should wipe out in equity

because the deposit was paid via undervalue there is a possibilty it could get a little complicated bcos it was transfered from my sister to me, but my mom will be making a claim on that money..( there should enough solicitors letters to show was also mothers property when sister owned it...

Hello again, MMMM

An implied trust means where there is no express trust (ie not in writing), ie it's implied because there ordinarily would be no trust. We have established that you have an express trust, ie you appointed yourself as trustee by making a relevant declaration. There are implied trusts such as resultant and constructive, a constructive trust is where one has been implied for example when there have been payments in that a person contributes to a property in some form, will likely be interpreted as an implied (constructive) trust, entitling them to property rights (proprietary) to the home etc. A resultant trust is a different matter. Hope this helps understand the context.

An implied does not have to meet the formalities or the constitution issue, as I explained previously. So, when the official receiver is looking at the trust claims they're looking for the formalities etc or otherwise they'll argue were not legally complete. The official receiver has two roles he is a receiver for creditors to whom debt is owed and, in a quasi way, he takes the estate of the insolvent (ie trustee for insolvent) again for the benefit of creditors mainly. Where property (ie homes, land, buildings) is concerned the official receiver is only ever entitled to the equitable interest. In law there are legal interests (outright binding) and equitable interests which are not so watertight.