MBNA/PRA problem

[NWHC]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

Nemesis45

If you were to read the thread you will have noticed that
a) The defence has already been submitted
b) The OP has already been told that a SAR will take 40 days
c) The OP has already stated that PRA are awaiting a copy of the agreement from the original creditor

As I already suggested
As PRA are claiming it is a MBNA account it wouldn't surprise me if the CCA they come back with wasn't a mbna recon

However , I do think it would be advisable to seek some legal advice because if it is defended and lost the costs could be significant . There are plenty of examples where creditors come up with agreements at the 11th hour.
I for one would want to be prepared

[meggle]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

Hi Nemisis45,

I was surprised by their returning the £1 CCA fee too. In fact, I thought it more likely they would try to demand a fee for replying to the CPR request, on the grounds that the agreement referred to is a CCA.


After filing my defence, I received an acknowledgement from the court saying the claimants had 28 days to decide whether they wanted to proceed. Co-incidentally, I also received and acknowledgement of my SAR from MBNA saying the information will be forwarded within 40 days. Thus far, PRA have not provided the CCA and appear to have totally ignored the CPR request.

Today I received a brief letter from PRA confirming receipt of my defence and stating they have notified the court that they wish to proceed with their claim.

My defence mentioned the CPR request and their failure to respond. I presume the submitted paperwork will be seen by a judge now. Will the court order PRA to comply with the CPR request (as I asked in my defence) or do I have to make a special application for such an order? I know PRA cannot produce the alleged agreement between MBNA and me because it doesn't exist.

[Nibbler]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

[MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] ?

[nemesis45]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

Hi Nemisis45,

I was surprised by their returning the £1 CCA fee too. In fact, I thought it more likely they would try to demand a fee for replying to the CPR request, on the grounds that the agreement referred to is a CCA.


After filing my defence, I received an acknowledgement from the court saying the claimants had 28 days to decide whether they wanted to proceed. Co-incidentally, I also received and acknowledgement of my SAR from MBNA saying the information will be forwarded within 40 days. Thus far, PRA have not provided the CCA and appear to have totally ignored the CPR request.

Today I received a brief letter from PRA confirming receipt of my defence and stating they have notified the court that they wish to proceed with their claim.

My defence mentioned the CPR request and their failure to respond. I presume the submitted paperwork will be seen by a judge now. Will the court order PRA to comply with the CPR request (as I asked in my defence) or do I have to make a special application for such an order? I know PRA cannot produce the alleged agreement between MBNA and me because it doesn't exist.

It you want to enforce the CPR it would mean an application to the court at a cost of £155.00

Whatever PRA do they will still need the agreement to enforce the debt. Alternatively PRA could try to produce a " reconstituted " agreement personally I have not seen them do this.

They maybe naïve enough to believe that returning the fee exempts them from the sanction of being unable to enforce the debt.:crazy:

It will be interesting to see their next move.

nem

[charitynjw]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

I heard nothing more until the claim form arrived yesterday. It shows the claimant as PRA Group (UK) Ltd and their statement of case say that I entered into an agreement with MBNA on 8/11/91 and that I defaulted on 31/7/2013. The claim is for the amount shown on the statements I received together with interest for the period 20/9/2013 to 21/1/2016, a court fee and legal representative's costs.
.

I received a reply to my CAA request today saying they have requested the required information from their client and returning my £1 payment as it "was not required to carry out the request".

Rubbish!^^^^

[meggle]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

They maybe naïve enough to believe that returning the fee exempts them from the sanction of being unable to enforce the debt.:crazy:

It will be interesting to see their next move.

nem

I think you might be right.

They wrote to me last week, just a couple of lines acknowledging receipt of my defence and stating their intention to proceed. Their reponse to my CCA request (mentioned above) stated that they had placed my account on hold which would "cease any further collections activity until further notice". I presume their lastest letter constitutes that "further notice". They've had over a month now and there's still no sign of the actual CCA.

On Saturday, I received a "directions Questionaire" from the court and would appreciate some advice. As I understand it, their claim cannot succeed without the CCA so it appears to be an open and shut case. Should I write to PRA (the claimants) reminding them of this and the pre-action protocol requiring exchange of documents? As I don't even know the basis of their claim (I'm not sure they do either), I don't know what, if anything, I have to refute.

Any suggestions as to what I should do next?

[nemesis45]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

I think you might be right.

They wrote to me last week, just a couple of lines acknowledging receipt of my defence and stating their intention to proceed. Their reponse to my CCA request (mentioned above) stated that they had placed my account on hold which would "cease any further collections activity until further notice". I presume their lastest letter constitutes that "further notice". They've had over a month now and there's still no sign of the actual CCA.

On Saturday, I received a "directions Questionaire" from the court and would appreciate some advice. As I understand it, their claim cannot succeed without the CCA so it appears to be an open and shut case. Should I write to PRA (the claimants) reminding them of this and the pre-action protocol requiring exchange of documents? As I don't even know the basis of their claim (I'm not sure they do either), I don't know what, if anything, I have to refute.

Any suggestions as to what I should do next?

Hello Meggle.

The DQ is quite straight forward if there specific points you need help on please tag me [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] and I'll help you.

Be aware that PRA's on hold does not affect the court process and all forms must be completed and distributed as instructed on time.

nem

[meggle]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

Thanks Nemisis,

I know PRA's on hold doesn't affect the court process, I just found it amusing that they don't seem to have any idea what they're doing.

As you say, the DQ is quite straightforward. I don't think I'll have any problems with it but it's good to know I can get help here if I need it.

[nemesis45]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

Thanks Nemisis,

I know PRA's on hold doesn't affect the court process, I just found it amusing that they don't seem to have any idea what they're doing.

As you say, the DQ is quite straightforward. I don't think I'll have any problems with it but it's good to know I can get help here if I need it.

Indeed they are clueless PRA has been that way since it appeared on the UK debt purchase scene.

Always happy to help!

nem

[joedempsey]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

Indeed they are clueless PRA has been that way since it appeared on the UK debt purchase scene.

Always happy to help!

nem

nem in post 34 you quote PRA could produce a reconstituted agreement?...i thought they had to go back to the original creditor?
is it possible for a DCA just to print any old agreement it likes?.. and then claim its a reconstituted agreement


joe

[nemesis45]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

nem in post 34 you quote PRA could produce a reconstituted agreement?...i thought they had to go back to the original creditor?
is it possible for a DCA just to print any old agreement it likes?.. and then claim its a reconstituted agreement


joe

A reconstituted agreement must conform to the following.

1. Have the debtors name and address as it was when the account was opened.

2. The Terms & Conditions relevant at the inception of the agreement.

3. The Terms & Conditions relevant when the account was closed.

4. Any other documents mentioned in the terms & conditions.

5. Any material amendments made during the life of the agreement.

nem

[NWHC]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

Just out of interest how did you apply for the card?

BTW I have had the fee returned to me twic by different DCA's with a 'we do not require the fee' letter . It probably costs them more to process it that the £1. In both cases they 'complied' with my request

As the debt is pre 2007 the terms MUST include all the prescribed terms
This may sound obvious but

If the original agreement did not include them the recon would not include them so the claim would stand on the basis of S77/78 but fail on S127 . If on the other hand the sent a recon with the prescribed terms it would fail on S77/79 if you could show that the original did not have them

Hope that makes sense but not really worth worrying about right now

[meggle]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

Just out of interest how did you apply for the card?

I can't remember how I applied for the BoS card - it was something like 25 years or more ago. I never applied for an MBNA card, the BoS account was just transferred to MBNA sometime later.

Thanks for the tips regarding the CCA.

I received PRA's directions questionnaire yesterday, just as I was planning to complete mine. They're asking for the case to be transferred to my local court and allocated to the Small Claims Track as the amount claimed, excluding interest, is less than £10,000 and interest should be disregarded when assessing the value for this purpose (CPR 26.8 (2)(b) & (c). I'm happy with that so I've re-iterated the requests in my DQ.

I just have a couple of questions about the DQ.

To 'C' (Pre-action protocols), they've answered 'Yes'. I dispute this as they have not complied with either my CPR 31.14 nor my CCA requests. Should I answer 'No' to that question explaining

"The Claimant has failed to respond to a CPR 31.14 request and
has, as yet, failed to provide the Defendant with a copy of the
Consumer Credit Agreement, as requested by him on 19th Feb.
2016. The Defendant, therefore, does not yet know what evidence
he needs to refute." ?

They have left 'D4' (Disclosure of non-electronic documents) blank. I've entered
"That the parties exchange copies of any and all documents they intend to use to support their respective cases."



Any comments on the above would be appreciated.

[nemesis45]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

I can't remember how I applied for the BoS card - it was something like 25 years or more ago. I never applied for an MBNA card, the BoS account was just transferred to MBNA sometime later.

Thanks for the tips regarding the CCA.

I received PRA's directions questionnaire yesterday, just as I was planning to complete mine. They're asking for the case to be transferred to my local court and allocated to the Small Claims Track as the amount claimed, excluding interest, is less than £10,000 and interest should be disregarded when assessing the value for this purpose (CPR 26.8 (2)(b) & (c). I'm happy with that so I've re-iterated the requests in my DQ.

I just have a couple of questions about the DQ.

To 'C' (Pre-action protocols), they've answered 'Yes'. I dispute this as they have not complied with either my CPR 31.14 nor my CCA requests. Should I answer 'No' to that question explaining

"The Claimant has failed to respond to a CPR 31.14 request and
has, as yet, failed to provide the Defendant with a copy of the
Consumer Credit Agreement, as requested by him on 19th Feb.
2016. The Defendant, therefore, does not yet know what evidence
he needs to refute." ?

They have left 'D4' (Disclosure of non-electronic documents) blank. I've entered
"That the parties exchange copies of any and all documents they intend to use to support their respective cases."



Any comments on the above would be appreciated.

The CPR request is one that is rather limited and claimants will state that claim is " likely" to be allocated to the Small Claims Track and because the claim was electronically generated they don't attach documents.

The usual tern used only claims re Pre action protocols is that " as far as possible complied with pre action protocols".
nem

[sueham]

Re: MBNA/PRA problem

Why haven't you asked your father in-law to provide proof of the payment. I know the bank would give him statements to prove this payment went through. Surely this then would completely show that it was paid.