Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

[Amethyst]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Oh and if they turn up at the hearing WITH the agreement then you wish to adjourn so you can read the agreement and seek legal advice as to the contents.

[Nicki1906]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Oh and if they turn up at the hearing WITH the agreement then you wish to adjourn so you can read the agreement and seek legal advice as to the contents.

Thanks Sharon,

Its at Chester, I have the name of the judge sitting on the case as it is on the papers, I can PM you that if you think it would be helpful, not sure I should post the name on this post!?

[Amethyst]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

It's fine to post it on here - just thought PT or someone might have an idea how they are with consumer credit act stuff. Some judges seem to think still that the consumer credit act is a loop hole as opposed to law.

[Nicki1906]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

It's fine to post it on here - just thought PT or someone might have an idea how they are with consumer credit act stuff. Some judges seem to think still that the consumer credit act is a loop hole as opposed to law.

District Judge Newman at Chester Civil Justice Centre

[Amethyst]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Ahhh - [MENTION=4775]Sparkie1723[/MENTION] [MENTION=551]pt2537[/MENTION] - I think you should be okay
See >> http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...esponsible-for
http://www.qualitysolicitors.com/how...default-ruling

[Nicki1906]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Thank you Sharon, I feel a little more at ease now, I've got to put a bullet list together with the main points of the facts that I will rely on.

One question after reading the info you've just shared, if the judge says it can't be enforced, is that the end of it, or can BW ask for further time!?

[Amethyst]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

It should be the end of it, but they could ask for further time. It is a little bizarre they are pushing on in to court without anything, even a recon, have a read of this
https://paulatwatsonssolicitors.word...dit-agreement/ which has a useful easy read bit about pre 2007 agreements.

So what if you don’t have the original agreement? well the burden does rest on the debtor to make a positive assertion about the original agreement, as the law stands , unless the debtor is able to make a positive assertion that the agreement was unenforceable because….. or that there never was a signed agreement…………………….(Please note: This only applies for agreements signed before 6th April 2007) then it is going to be very difficult to challenge the enforceability of the credit agreement.

I would also point out that no where in the 1974 Act does it state the “Original actual signed piece of paper” must be brought to the Court. It would no doubt be accepted by the Court if a member of staff working for the bank in their archiving department gave evidence that there was a credit agreement recorded on the banks archives, and that the type of credit agreement in use at that time was “X” and the computer records show that “X” % rate of interest would have applied and the credit limit was “£XXXXX”. The Court is likely to accept such evidence unless there is a positive assertion coming from the debtor as to what he did or did not sign. Now i would also point out that making a positive assertion that you didn’t sign an agreement when you know you did, is not only likely to get found out and make you look foolish, if you make such an assertion in a Defence and sign such with a statement of truth knowing it isn’t true, then you may well end up facing contempt of court too.

That said, there are often ways of proving the agreement the bank says is a “true copy” is in fact not a true copy. I have developed this skill over the years, and have been successful on a number of occasions in proving that the “true copy” provided by lenders isnt.

So in your case, you signed an agreement but you do not know the terms and it has not been possible for you to check the agreement is enforceable and contains the prescribed terms.... he may ask if you remember signing anything - how you applied - and so on. All you can do is tell the truth but without the agreement they are going to find it incredibly difficult to enforce. They could have supplied a reconstruction of the original to enable you to check the terms. eg. how the debt got to over £2k when as far as you recall it was £600 back in 2008 - there's no terms about interest or charges to be able to check, or repayment terms etc. You don't know if there was PPI or any commission in the debt.

Hopefully Paul will look in over the next couple days, or James, they will be able to give you much better pointers than I can.

[Nicki1906]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

It should be the end of it, but they could ask for further time. It is a little bizarre they are pushing on in to court without anything, even a recon, have a read of this
https://paulatwatsonssolicitors.word...dit-agreement/ which has a useful easy read bit about pre 2007 agreements.



So in your case, you signed an agreement but you do not know the terms and it has not been possible for you to check the agreement is enforceable and contains the prescribed terms.... he may ask if you remember signing anything - how you applied - and so on. All you can do is tell the truth but without the agreement they are going to find it incredibly difficult to enforce. They could have supplied a reconstruction of the original to enable you to check the terms. eg. how the debt got to over £2k when as far as you recall it was £600 back in 2008 - there's no terms about interest or charges to be able to check, or repayment terms etc. You don't know if there was PPI or any commission in the debt.

Hopefully Paul will look in over the next couple days, or James, they will be able to give you much better pointers than I can.

thank you so much for this and taking the time to help, I can only hope for a positive outcome going forward, I will keep checking back in case Paul or James have chance to respond, just need next Tuesday to come and go now, it's my birthday on Sunday so would be the best gift if it is found in my. favour x

[nemesis45]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Hi Nem,

thank you again for your advice, I think my lack of experience is why I am finding the whole thing a bit overwhelming, It's the unknown and feeling out of my depth, I have idea how the case will be presented, I've even tried to research online how the proceedings will happen, seems to be limited information out there.

my main concern is the judge will question why I have set up an agreement then not kept to it, I also think that the BW solicitor will be eloquent with his words and also make the point that by making the payments I have admitted liability and that the fact the CCA has not been produced will not be relevant.

so I just need to do as mentioned before, stick to my guns that as they have not produced a true copy of the executed credit agreement they have failed to comply, therefore the debt cannot be enforced.........sounds simple when I say it like that.......will the judge give them more time if I state this as my argument!?

Hello Nicki,

Yes be focused!!

Most judges don't moralise cases if asked about the payment plan failing, answers could be it was unaffordable, you were pressured into making payments because constant threatening letter and/or phone calls and texts all of those apply to Lowell's usual conduct.

nem

[Nicki1906]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Hello Nicki,

Yes be focused!!

Most judges don't moralise cases if asked about the payment plan failing, answers could be it was unaffordable, you were pressured into making payments because constant threatening letter and/or phone calls and texts all of those apply to Lowell's usual conduct.

nem

Thank you Nem,

You have all been amazing with your help and advice, i couldn't have got this far without your help.
I will be sitting down and making a bullet list as you suggested, if they get heavy i will be pointing out the endless letters, (i have kept all their letters, which may be useful), but generally i will make my stand over their failure to comply with the CCA, keeping fingers crossed.

[nemesis45]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Just a tip, have a couple of copies of your list with you a judge may ask to see what you are looking at.
Don't be worried if this does happen it just shows you have prepared yourself for the hearing.

nem

[Nicki1906]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Hello Nicki,

Yes be focused!!

Most judges don't moralise cases if asked about the payment plan failing, answers could be it was unaffordable, you were pressured into making payments because constant threatening letter and/or phone calls and texts all of those apply to Lowell's usual conduct.

nem

Thank you Nem,

You have all been amazing with your help and advice, i couldn't have got this far without your help.
I will be sitting down and making a bullet list as you suggested, if they get heavy i will be pointing out the endless letters, (i have kept all their letters, which may be useful), but generally i will make my stand over their failure to comply with the CCA, keeping fingers crossed.

[Nicki1906]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Hi Everyone,

Just about to make a final list of everything i am using for the court case tomorrow, then as i'm checking over everything i have read a few similar cases and they all mention requesting a SAR which i haven't as this would have provided/not provided the information i am currently missing.....ie. what the prescribed terms were including interest charges and repayment terms were, if there was any ppi or commission in the debt.

I also could wondered if the interest and late charges they (HSBC) continued to add whether they could be questioned as being unreasonable?

My main point is still going to be they have not provided the original CCA.

Or am i over thinking everything now!?

[nemesis45]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Hi Everyone,

Just about to make a final list of everything i am using for the court case tomorrow, then as i'm checking over everything i have read a few similar cases and they all mention requesting a SAR which i haven't as this would have provided/not provided the information i am currently missing.....ie. what the prescribed terms were including interest charges and repayment terms were, if there was any ppi or commission in the debt.

I also could wondered if the interest and late charges they (HSBC) continued to add whether they could be questioned as being unreasonable?

My main point is still going to be they have not provided the original CCA.

Or am i over thinking everything now!?

Hello Nicki,

If the claim had been brought by the bank yes it would be possible to challenge those points but now the debt has been sold, so the "new " owners have no interest on what has gone before. It * maybe* that by asking how the amount claimed has arisen that a judge may order that to be disclosed it would/should have been done earlier.

nem

[Nicki1906]

Re: Is debt statute barred, court claim issued!

Hello Nicki,

If the claim had been brought by the bank yes it would be possible to challenge those points but now the debt has been sold, so the "new " owners have no interest on what has gone before. It * maybe* that by asking how the amount claimed has arisen that a judge may order that to be disclosed it would/should have been done earlier.

nem

Waiting now for my hearing. Are Lowell allowed to question me, he asked if I had made any additional requests since filing the WS, I feel very intimidated an scared beyond belief, I had all fixed with what I wanted to say now I feel like I don't stand a chance!! 😳😩