Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

[WineGums]

Hi,

I recently received documents from MCOL re a disputed/defaulted loan.

I acknowledged the claim online and opted to defend in full.

I have sent a CCA request to the Debt Colection Agency (alleged debt owner) and a CPR request for any documents/evidence that they would rely on to their solicitors. I didn't sign either letter with my real signature (signed in a computer font) in fear of them 'fabricating an agreement'. I feel that they are trying to frustrate my defence or waste time by refusing to respond without a signature.

Can a solicitor refuse to release information requested under Civil Procedure Rules if I didn't sign it / signed it with a font and not my actual signature? I am trying to avoid giving a true signature as I believe it may be used to 'fabricate' an agreement.

The solicitor received my request by recorded delivery on monday and replied (dated yesterday), received today, stating :-

"Please find enclosed a draft letter which purports to come from you but which is unsigned.

You will appreciate that we must ensure we are corresponding with the correct person and that anyone requesting information is entitled to receive it.

Please ensure that all documentation is signed failing which we will not acknowledge receipt nor provide any response."

Their letter also states at the bottom that "We do not accept service of documents or proceedings by Fax or Email", are they allowed to do that?

[R0b]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

If a claim has already started I don't see why you have to provide a CCA request, as part of the disclosure process request all documents they are wishing to rely upon in court which in turn should include the agreement? failure to disclose a document cannot be used without the courts permission. Alternatively you could also threaten to make an application yourself for disclosure and claim back any costs incurred as a result.

Either way, a signature is not required because presuming they want to rely on the terms of the agreement then they must disclose that document in order for it to be used in court. Give the solicitor a call and point this out to them and/or confirm by email of what was discussed.

Their letter also states at the bottom that "We do not accept service of documents or proceedings by Fax or Email", are they allowed to do that?

Yes

[WineGums]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

Thanks R0b,

The Particulars of Claim on the Claim Form don't mention any evidence that they wish to rely on, simply :-

"The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between the Defendant(s) and XXXXXX Bank
dated on or about MMM DD 2008 and assigned
to the Claimant on MMM DD 2014

PARTICULARS a/c no 999999999999

DATE ITEM VALUE
DD/MM/YYYY Default Balance NNNN.NN
Post Refrl Cr NIL

TOTAL NNNN.NN"

So basically there is no other information I have and therefore can't see if there is a valid CCA, default notice, statements, etc. So basically don't know how to defend?

Thanks.

[Amethyst]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

The CCA is required as it is a legal requirement that the document is supplied - else the claimant is unable to enforce the debt. The agreement should be provided as part of the disclosure too, yes, but the CCA request is a very very useful backup, as there is simply no argument about it, either they have provided it or they haven't. No signature is required however you may be required to evidence your identity for DPA purposes.

I am a bit of a fan of signing your letters though - because we get these 'you haven't signed it' letters back a lot and it just holds things up... which of course, is what the claimant wants....gives them more time to try and find the agreement - the instances of the signature being used to create an invented document is virtually non-existent and the signature isn't required on the agreement as part of a CCA response anyway. You could just make an extra wiggle or put an x or mark behind your signature.

[Amethyst]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

Thanks R0b,

The Particulars of Claim on the Claim Form don't mention any evidence that they wish to rely on, simply :-

"The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between the Defendant(s) and XXXXXX Bank
dated on or about MMM DD 2008 and assigned
to the Claimant on MMM DD 2014

PARTICULARS a/c no 999999999999

DATE ITEM VALUE
DD/MM/YYYY Default Balance NNNN.NN
Post Refrl Cr NIL

TOTAL NNNN.NN"

So basically there is no other information I have and therefore can't see if there is a valid CCA, default notice, statements, etc. So basically don't know how to defend?

Thanks.

They are utter pants aren't they. Is it Restons ? They could at least say what the original debt is. I think it almost asks for an embarrased, unable to plead effectively, defence but you have done the right thing to date in sending the CCA and the CPR requests. Do you know what it the debt is ? Credit card/Loan - then yes you want to send the CCA request ( did they keep your £1 btw?). Overdraft ? then it isn't applicable, but if they haven't said what the debt is they probably don't know, so its a good idea to have one in play anyway.

[Kati]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

You could return it and sign over an anti-tamper strip

[WineGums]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I believe it was probably a loan which I defaulted on due to health issues and being unable to work.

It is Restons, that obvious?

The pound hasn't been returned yet and it was stated in the CCA request that it was not to be used for any other purpose, etc.

Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

lol, yes they like the 'Post Refrl Cr NIL' line on their claims. For a personal loan the CCA would apply so, personally, I would sign the letter ( with tamper strip/squiggle whatever for your own peace of mind) and send it back to them asap.

Who was the original bank/lender?

[WineGums]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

Thanks, will do. The original lender was Lloyds TSB or 'Lloyds Bank' according to the Claim form.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I believe it was probably a loan which I defaulted on due to health issues and being unable to work.

It is Restons, that obvious?

Yes, it's one of their generic template letters. :grin:

The pound hasn't been returned yet and it was stated in the CCA request that it was not to be used for any other purpose, etc.

Are they referring to the CCA request or your CPR request?

The CCA request should have been sent directly to the claimants, who are they? Cabot?

Thanks, will do. The original lender was Lloyds TSB or 'Lloyds Bank' according to the Claim form.

And who is the claimant/current owner? Cabot by any chance?

[Nibbler]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

You could return it and sign over an anti-tamper strip

A few mins in Photoshop/Gimp, and they don't do much good to be honest.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

A few mins in Photoshop/Gimp, and they don't do much good to be honest.

Apart from being a criminal offence, a firm of solicitors involved in such an activity would put their SRA authorisation in jeopardy. I've heard of people fabricating letters to back up their witness statements but I doubt solicitors would do that, surely even Restons wouldn't think it worth the risk. :confused2:

[Nibbler]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

Apart from being a criminal offence, a firm of solicitors involved in such an activity would put their SRA authorisation in jeopardy. I've heard of people fabricating letters to back up their witness statements but I doubt solicitors would do that, surely even Restons wouldn't think it worth the risk. :confused2:

I was commenting on the efficacy of the anti tamper backgrounds that do the rounds, not whether a solicitor, creditor or DCA would do that, or the legality of such.

Al they really do is make a statement of intent, and make people feel better - justified or not.

I agree that it is virtually unheard of. The only serious case I recall that was not just forum rumour was actual forgery, rather than lifting, of a signature by a Natwest staff member, and that was nothing to do with debt collection or legal action. http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...nature-forgery

[WineGums]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

Yes, it's one of their generic template letters. :grin:

Are they referring to the CCA request or your CPR request?

The CCA request should have been sent directly to the claimants, who are they? Cabot?

And who is the claimant/current owner? Cabot by any chance?

It is Cabot, CCA went to Cabot, no reply as of yet.

CPR request went to Restons and that letter is their only response so far.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Solicitors refusing to release information without signature.

It is Cabot, CCA went to Cabot, no reply as of yet.

CPR request went to Restons and that letter is their only response so far.

OK, in that case you may want to look at the claim form and see who appears as the claimant, is it Cabot Financial (UK) Limited by any chance? If so, look here: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...bot#post581135