DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

[Chattyone]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

Good Morning Nemesis

Sorry I think I may have confused a few things here so I’ll summarise what’s happened so far:

1. 01.10.2015 sent CPR and CCA request to Drydens / Cabots respectively and submitted AOS.
2. Submitted a defence (see post 18^th October) I also added a line requesting that Drydens show evidence that they were in possession of a valid license at the time of their claim.

1. 14.10.2015 I called Drydens to chase up CPR request and followed up convo by email (see post 14.10.2015).

1. 22.10.2015 I receive letter (dated 14.10.2015) from Risk & Compliance @Drydens acknowleding my CPR request letter dated 01.10.2015 saying they have asked Cabots for the documents I requested and have asked that the Court claim be pushed back until 17.11.2015.

1. 24.10.2015 I get a 2^nd letter (dated 16.10.2015) again from Compliance in response to my telephone complaint (see my 1^st post) saying that they hope to send me a detailed reply regarding their investigation by 14.11.2015.

1. 13.11.2015 Risk & Compliance @Drydens send investigation results of my phone complaint: They don’t uphold my complaint because they claim that their letter states that they required clear payment proposals and because the £50 payment I made was late (only by 4 days) – and so they issued proceedings.

1. They’ve also said that they’ve put my file on hold for 14 days so that I can discuss payment proposals. But this 14 days falls outside 17 November which is my Court claim date – not the date by which I have to submit a defence – as I wrote in my previous post (14.11.2015).

They end with “please consider this to be our final response regarding the complaint you have raised”.

1. So to date, I’ve received no documents from Drydens / Cabots and no follow up to Drydens letter dated 22.10.2015.

1. I’ve also received no response to my defence submitted.

1. In the event I need to inform the Court that Drydens claim to have put my file on hold for 14 days to discuss payment proposals, would the 14 days run from the date of their letter or the date I received it?

1. Do I insist on those documents or discuss payment - what should be my next move esp. as like you said Nemesis, I made a payment?

[nemesis45]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

Good Morning Nemesis

Sorry I think I may have confused a few things here so I’ll summarise what’s happened so far:

1. 01.10.2015 sent CPR and CCA request to Drydens / Cabots respectively and submitted AOS.
2. Submitted a defence (see post 18^th October) I also added a line requesting that Drydens show evidence that they were in possession of a valid license at the time of their claim.

1. 14.10.2015 I called Drydens to chase up CPR request and followed up convo by email (see post 14.10.2015).

1. 22.10.2015 I receive letter (dated 14.10.2015) from Risk & Compliance @Drydens acknowleding my CPR request letter dated 01.10.2015 saying they have asked Cabots for the documents I requested and have asked that the Court claim be pushed back until 17.11.2015.

1. 24.10.2015 I get a 2^nd letter (dated 16.10.2015) again from Compliance in response to my telephone complaint (see my 1^st post) saying that they hope to send me a detailed reply regarding their investigation by 14.11.2015.

1. 13.11.2015 Risk & Compliance @Drydens send investigation results of my phone complaint: They don’t uphold my complaint because they claim that their letter states that they required clear payment proposals and because the £50 payment I made was late (only by 4 days) – and so they issued proceedings.

1. They’ve also said that they’ve put my file on hold for 14 days so that I can discuss payment proposals. But this 14 days falls outside 17 November which is my Court claim date – not the date by which I have to submit a defence – as I wrote in my previous post (14.11.2015).

They end with “please consider this to be our final response regarding the complaint you have raised”.

1. So to date, I’ve received no documents from Drydens / Cabots and no follow up to Drydens letter dated 22.10.2015.

1. I’ve also received no response to my defence submitted.

1. In the event I need to inform the Court that Drydens claim to have put my file on hold for 14 days to discuss payment proposals, would the 14 days run from the date of their letter or the date I received it?

1. Do I insist on those documents or discuss payment - what should be my next move esp. as like you said Nemesis, I made a payment?

Without the CCA a court cannot enforce the debt so as long as it's not supplied DF / Cabot are " stuffed:!

Check with the court tomorrow morning as if the claimant has not responded to your defence within 28 days
the court will of its own volition stay the claim.

nem

[Chattyone]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

hair piulling abated for now Nemesis - much appreciated!

[nemesis45]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

hair piulling abated for now Nemesis - much appreciated!

OK! Keep calm and carry on !! Chatty.:tinysmile_twink_t2:

nem

[Chattyone]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

Well I sent an email to Northampton (15^th Nov) – as their website stated that the phone line was down. I got an automated response – but nothing else so far - even though they said I should expect a response within 5 to 10 days.

Cabots meanwhile have written to me in a letter dated 19.11.2015 which I didn’t get until 7 days later!

They’ve sent me a copy of the signed & dated agreement (from 2003 ) - or at least the 1^st page of it with my details but no Acc Number.
The letter reads:

“Please find enclosed all of the relevant information following your request for information under section 77 – 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. We can confirm that we have provided a reconstituted true copy of your credit agreement in addition to the signed copy, which for the avoidance of doubt complies with the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 and therefore complies with the obligations set out in section 77-78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

We consider that the agreement is now enforceable and therefore we are entitled to obtain a CCJ against you. However we would prefer that you that you work with us to set up a repayment plan to settle your outstanding balance.

The outstanding balance is £7XXX .Please make contact (Cabot Financial Europe Ltd) as soon as possible to discuss the options available in order to settle this account.”

1. Is it usual for the court to take so long to respond?
2. Cabot’s have included the legal + court fees in the figure above – can they do this?
3. Why is it reconstituted? Does this affect its validity?
4. Any further advice please?

[nemesis45]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

Well I sent an email to Northampton (15^th Nov) – as their website stated that the phone line was down. I got an automated response – but nothing else so far - even though they said I should expect a response within 5 to 10 days.

Cabots meanwhile have written to me in a letter dated 19.11.2015 which I didn’t get until 7 days later!

They’ve sent me a copy of the signed & dated agreement (from 2003 ) - or at least the 1^st page of it with my details but no Acc Number.
The letter reads:

“Please find enclosed all of the relevant information following your request for information under section 77 – 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. We can confirm that we have provided a reconstituted true copy of your credit agreement in addition to the signed copy, which for the avoidance of doubt complies with the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 and therefore complies with the obligations set out in section 77-78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

We consider that the agreement is now enforceable and therefore we are entitled to obtain a CCJ against you. However we would prefer that you that you work with us to set up a repayment plan to settle your outstanding balance.

The outstanding balance is £7XXX .Please make contact (Cabot Financial Europe Ltd) as soon as possible to discuss the options available in order to settle this account.”

1. Is it usual for the court to take so long to respond?
2. Cabot’s have included the legal + court fees in the figure above – can they do this?
3. Why is it reconstituted? Does this affect its validity?
4. Any further advice please?

Ok a " reconstituted" agreement must have the following elements.

1. Your name and address as it was at the time the account was opened.
2. As above for the creditor/
3.The terms and conditions ( complete set) relevant when the account was opened.
4. As above for the time the account was closed.
5. Any other documents mentioned in the T's & C's.
And any Material amendments to the Ts & Cs during the life of the agreement.

If you don't have the above the recon does not satisfy the CCA request and in my opinion will fail in court.
It's reconstituted because the original cannot be located.
It should given the age of the account be needed to enforce.

nem

[Chattyone]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

So even though they provided document after 12 working days of my request - is the debt still enforceable?

Also you've said "It should given the age of the account be needed to enforce" - can you explain pls?

[Kati]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

[MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION]??

[nemesis45]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

So even though they provided document after 12 working days of my request - is the debt still enforceable?

Also you've said "It should given the age of the account be needed to enforce" - can you explain pls?

The 12 + 2 Days time scale renders the debt unenforceable only until the agreement is supplied.
The original agreement should be produced on accounts opened before April 2007, the recon agreement may satisfy the CCA request but may fail in court.
nem

[Chattyone]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

@nemesis45 or anyone available

I’ve uploaded the following documents (pages 1-19):

1. Statement of account – p2
2. 2 sets of alleged agreements - none of which are labelled / dated- so from deduction:
3. a)Alleged agreement at the time of opening account (with the lowest APR) - p3-10

b) Important financial information – p12
c) Alleged agreement at the time of closing account – looks incomplete? – p14+15
4. Terms & conditions p15-18
5. Missing payments - p19
I’ve been looking through the documents they sent me and there are a few things that don’t quite make sense to me:

• The important financial information page on p12- the monthly invariable rate of 1.687% neither matches that quoted in the 1^st or 2^nd set of agreements.

• The alleged agreement at the time of closing account – looks incomplete (p14+15)
• The Terms & conditions (p 15-18) a missing points 9.2 to 17.
• I’m guessing the Missing Payments page (p19) is supposed to belong to the alleged agreement at the time of opening the account?

Can you cast your expert eyes over the documents and give me with your opinions please?

- - - Updated - - -

Soz for the dodgy numbering - I couldn't override the automatic labelling

[nemesis45]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

@nemesis45 or anyone available

I’ve uploaded the following documents (pages 1-19):

1. Statement of account – p2
2. 2 sets of alleged agreements - none of which are labelled / dated- so from deduction:
3. a)Alleged agreement at the time of opening account (with the lowest APR) - p3-10

b) Important financial information – p12
c) Alleged agreement at the time of closing account – looks incomplete? – p14+15
4. Terms & conditions p15-18
5. Missing payments - p19
I’ve been looking through the documents they sent me and there are a few things that don’t quite make sense to me:

• The important financial information page on p12- the monthly invariable rate of 1.687% neither matches that quoted in the 1^st or 2^nd set of agreements.

• The alleged agreement at the time of closing account – looks incomplete (p14+15)
• The Terms & conditions (p 15-18) a missing points 9.2 to 17.
• I’m guessing the Missing Payments page (p19) is supposed to belong to the alleged agreement at the time of opening the account?

Can you cast your expert eyes over the documents and give me with your opinions please?

- - - Updated - - -

Soz for the dodgy numbering - I couldn't override the automatic labelling

Hi,

Page 1. Is I guess the header page of the agreement, containing your name and address as it was when the account was opened?

The consequent pages seem to be consecutively numbered, the 2nd set appears to be a set of Terms and Conditions without printed page numbers?
Any challenge to this would have to be on the point that you cannot reconcile the 2nd set as the T's & C's relevant when the account was closed, missing pages being the point to use.

nem

[Chattyone]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

Page 1. Is I guess the header page of the agreement, containing your name and address as it was when the account was opened?
Yes -that's correct

The consequent pages seem to be consecutively numbered, the 2nd set appears to be a set of Terms and Conditions without printed page numbers?
The second set seems to me to be an agreement at the close - without printed page numbers and incomplete plus a random page (12) added for good measure.

And the 2nd set of terms and conditions are also incomplete and without printed page numbers - plus another random page (19)

Any challenge to this would have to be on the point that you cannot reconcile the 2nd set as the T's & C's relevant when the account was closed, missing pages being the point to use.

Thanking you. ... I take it this is what I would challenge Cabots with in my response to their letter, rather than waiting for it to go to court?

[Chattyone]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

@nemesis45

Apologies - I've uploaded the CCA documents again this time in order. I've just realised that the pages were numbered on the back of each page (the sequence of numbers are not partic. obvious).

Also I've actually found two missing pages fom the T&C's - so it looks like I cannot use your above suggestion for my rebuttal.

Does it matter that the signed agreement on p3 was issued from Cardiff, whereas the address of the creditor at the time of opnening the account was in Halifax (or am I clutching at straws?

Can you have another look over it again - now it's in logical order - for some much needed advice?

[nemesis45]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

Good morning.

I am not entirely sure but I think the Halifax Cardiff address is their " Card Centre/department, perhaps
someone will be able to say for sure.

That apart it now seems that this satisfies a CCA request, as for enforceability that's for a court to decide.

nem

[nemesis45]

Re: DrysdenFairfax / Cabots

@nemesis45

Apologies - I've uploaded the CCA documents again this time in order. I've just realised that the pages were numbered on the back of each page (the sequence of numbers are not partic. obvious).

Also I've actually found two missing pages fom the T&C's - so it looks like I cannot use your above suggestion for my rebuttal.

Does it matter that the signed agreement on p3 was issued from Cardiff, whereas the address of the creditor at the time of opnening the account was in Halifax (or am I clutching at straws?

Can you have another look over it again - now it's in logical order - for some much needed advice?

Good morning Chattyone, Responding to your PM.

Your idea of making a SAR to the creditor is a good idea imo.

Mediation is an option for avoiding a CCJ, if agreement on payment level can be reached this can be secured by a Consent(Tomlin) order and whilst payments are made of the agreed amount and on time the claim is stayed, but if the payments are not made as agreed the creditor will apply for summary judgement.
Payments would have to be reasonable, affordable and sustainable over an extended period of time, my concern for you is are your affordable suggested payments going to be see as Reasonable.

Have you made an I & E statement to calculate your disposable income?

One point to save me looking through all the posts. Does your name and address appear on the Ts & Cs exactly as it was when the account was opened.

nem