CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

The defense was as follows:

I have written to this company on 2 occasions (I have enclosed a copy of the 2 letters for ease of reference) stating that the last payment or acknowledgement of this debt was made over 6 years ago and requesting documentation stating otherwise. I have to this date not had any response.
I would like to request that this order is set aside until such time as I receive the requested documentation.

Not the best defense in the world I agree but we were rushed as the allowed time to respond had expired (sent on day 15 of the 14 limit).

It's a shame you didn't find us earlier because we'd have told you that the 14 days only refer to acknowledging service of the claim. Once you do that you get a further 14 days to file a defence.

You submitted a SBd defence which is fine, the burden on proof is on the claimant to show it isn't! :grin:

Yes it was, see the post above for the exect wording.

To be fair, the in-laws are getting on and the 1st letter I sent was a CCA request, some time passed and they showed me a badly photocopied agreement that they 'believed' was the response to my letter, however the agreement related to RBS and a Personal Loan. I sent the second letter requesting proof that a payment had been made or acknowledgment
of the debt within the last 6 years and no response was received until the court letter.

Statute barred is an absolute defence, therefore a much better argument than any CCA issues. :thumb:

[Nelix]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

This all sounds good then?

Should we just sit back and wait or should I still send another CCA request?

[nemesis45]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

This all sounds good then?

Should we just sit back and wait or should I still send another CCA request?

Yes Nelix " belt and braces" send another CCA request as it seems the first one was ignored.
One can't be sure here I think that no payments or acknowledgments have definitely not been
paid in the last 6 years. " mystery" on off payments cropping up are a regular feature of the debt
collection industry.

nem

[Nelix]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

I have just recieved and email from the other half with an image attached of a letter that her parents received today.The Letter is a Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track.

[Nelix]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

Argghhhh!!

I wish the in-laws were more organised.

I've just received another email and a phone call from the other half and this all changes

They have found an agreement which was indeed in response to my first letter, it says the lender is MBNA at the top, however at the bottom it says Alliance & Leicester Credit Card Agreement with a branch ID, Advisor ID and an account number.

Her mother is adamant that she has NEVER had an Alliance & Leicester (A&L) credit card or an MBNA card. she has however had a A&L bank account.

The second letter I sent was as follows:


WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir/Madam

Your Ref: XXXXXXXXX

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOURSELVES OR TO ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

Thank you very much for your letter. You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself. I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5:

“An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.”

I would point out that in their Consumer Credit sourcebook, the Financial Conduct Authority states the following rules:

· "...a firm must not attempt to recover a statute barred debt in England, Wales or Northern Ireland if the lender or owner has not been in contact with the customer during the limitation period." 7.15.4

· "A firm must not continue to demand payment from a customer after the customer has stated that he will not be paying the debt because it is statute barred." 7.15.8

The last payment or acknowledgement of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me to recover the alleged amount claimed.

Should you continue to pursue me regarding this alleged debt without providing evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period I shall have no option but to consider this as harassment and shall have no choice but to escalate the matter to the relevant authorities including the Office of Fair Trading and the Information Commissioner’s Office.

I would also like to request that any entry relating to the alleged debt be removed from my credit file with all credit reference agencies, including Equifax Ltd, Callcredit Plc and Experian Ltd.

I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

Yours faithfully


We have received no response from this 2nd letter (Sent 2nd Feb) other than the court paperwork.

[nemesis45]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

Argghhhh!!

I wish the in-laws were more organised.

I've just received another email and a phone call from the other half and this all changes

They have found an agreement which was indeed in response to my first letter, it says the lender is MBNA at the top, however at the bottom it says Alliance & Leicester Credit Card Agreement with a branch ID, Advisor ID and an account number.

Her mother is adamant that she has NEVER had an Alliance & Leicester (A&L) credit card or an MBNA card. she has however had a A&L bank account.

The second letter I sent was as follows:


WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir/Madam

Your Ref: XXXXXXXXX

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOURSELVES OR TO ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

Thank you very much for your letter. You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself. I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5:

“An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.”

I would point out that in their Consumer Credit sourcebook, the Financial Conduct Authority states the following rules:

· "...a firm must not attempt to recover a statute barred debt in England, Wales or Northern Ireland if the lender or owner has not been in contact with the customer during the limitation period." 7.15.4

· "A firm must not continue to demand payment from a customer after the customer has stated that he will not be paying the debt because it is statute barred." 7.15.8

The last payment or acknowledgement of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me to recover the alleged amount claimed.

Should you continue to pursue me regarding this alleged debt without providing evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period I shall have no option but to consider this as harassment and shall have no choice but to escalate the matter to the relevant authorities including the Office of Fair Trading and the Information Commissioner’s Office.

I would also like to request that any entry relating to the alleged debt be removed from my credit file with all credit reference agencies, including Equifax Ltd, Callcredit Plc and Experian Ltd.

I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

Yours faithfully


We have received no response from this 2nd letter (Sent 2nd Feb) other than the court paperwork.

Hi Nelix,
Using "without prejudice " on these letters means that you wont be able to rely on what you say if it's queried in court. I have a feeling this is why your letter has been ignored. Anyway it's too late for pushing that now the claim has been issued and a defence entered.
When was this account opened? When was if defaulted

Are there bank statements etc. to back up the last payment date?
Do they have any statements for this account?
Clearly the card has been utilised any statements might assist.

Is there anything else with this agreement form, terms & condition ??

The allocation form needs to be completed and a copy sent back to the court and the claimants solicitors.
Tick yes to mediation, also it will need the name of their local county court.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

I have just recieved and email from the other half with an image attached of a letter that her parents received today.The Letter is a Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track.

That's just part of the process, once a defence is submitted, claims below £10k are allocated to the small claims track.

Argghhhh!!

I wish the in-laws were more organised.

I've just received another email and a phone call from the other half and this all changes

They have found an agreement which was indeed in response to my first letter, it says the lender is MBNA at the top, however at the bottom it says Alliance & Leicester Credit Card Agreement with a branch ID, Advisor ID and an account number.

Her mother is adamant that she has NEVER had an Alliance & Leicester (A&L) credit card or an MBNA card. she has however had a A&L bank account.

I'd really like to see that alleged agreement if you could post it up, suitably redacted of course. :typing:

I had an A&L current account and was offered a credit card over the phone I believe, over 20 years ago. In 2002 I got a letter from A&L saying the cards were now being managed by MBNA but it was still branded A&L all the way to 2009 when the A&L ceased to exist and MBNA sent me a new card with their logo and also increased the interest to around 36%! :scared:

In May 2010 I sent a SAR and CCA requests to MBNA and they replied to both saying they could not locate my agreement due to "archival retrieval issues with the A&L". A couple of years later, an ex-MBNA employee said that when the accounts were sold in 2002 MBNA did not acquire the agreements and over 90% of them were destroyed. I've never seen anyone receiving an agreement for an old A&L card sold to MBNA in response to a CCA request!

Of course if the debt is SBd, it would be unenforceable even if there was a fully compliant agreement with all the prescribed terms. :grin: :grin: :grin:

[Nelix]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

Right, I'm sat at the in-laws with all of the paperwork.

Here is the covering letter that came with the copy of the agreement:




Here is the copy of the Agreement:



I hope these are not too big, if so I can re-size them.

No other documentation was received with this letter/agreement.

The account was opened according to the signature on the agreement 25/11/2006, according to the credit file it was 1/12/2006.

According to the credit file it has a default date of 30/6/2010. I know this date is within the last 6 years but, if I am informed correctly, if this relates to a credit/store card then the 6 year time period starts from the date of the first missed payment, please correct me if I am wrong.

I have some bank statements relating to a Santander account who I believe took over A&L, however as we do not know who the original creditor is we don't know what to look for.

[Nibbler]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

It say Alliance and Leicester Credit Card, provided by MBNA?

A&L was taken over by Santander in 2008 I think?

[Nelix]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

It say Alliance and Leicester Credit Card, provided by MBNA?

i thought that would be the case

[nemesis45]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

Right, I'm sat at the in-laws with all of the paperwork.

Here is the covering letter that came with the copy of the agreement:




Here is the copy of the Agreement:



I hope these are not too big, if so I can re-size them.

No other documentation was received with this letter/agreement.

The account was opened according to the signature on the agreement 25/11/2006, according to the credit file it was 1/12/2006.

According to the credit file it has a default date of 30/6/2010. I know this date is within the last 6 years but, if I am informed correctly, if this relates to a credit/store card then the 6 year time period starts from the date of the first missed payment, please correct me if I am wrong.

I have some bank statements relating to a Santander account who I believe took over A&L, however as we do not know who the original creditor is we don't know what to look for.

MBNA is the original creditor it issued and managed the cards on behalf of A&L i.e. an A&L " branded" credit card.

Are the statements for the card or the bank account taken over by Santander?

[Nelix]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

After much checking and cross referencing I can confirm that the statements are NOT for the credit card or the Santander (A&L) account.

The in-laws are going to call Santander tomorrow and request copies of all statements in the hope that this will help.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

I hope these are not too big, if so I can re-size them.

No other documentation was received with this letter/agreement.

The account was opened according to the signature on the agreement 25/11/2006, according to the credit file it was 1/12/2006.

According to the credit file it has a default date of 30/6/2010. I know this date is within the last 6 years but, if I am informed correctly, if this relates to a credit/store card then the 6 year time period starts from the date of the first missed payment, please correct me if I am wrong.

That's a very recent application which would explain why they provided the agreement, I didn't think the A&L were still issuing cards in their name after they were sold to MBNA in 2002. It was the pre-2002 agreements that got largely destroyed.

I have some bank statements relating to a Santander account who I believe took over A&L, however as we do not know who the original creditor is we don't know what to look for.

It say Alliance and Leicester Credit Card, provided by MBNA?

A&L was taken over by Santander in 2008 I think?

It was in late 2009/early 2010 when all the account stuff and branches got re-branded by Santander. The cards were re-branded MBNA in 2009.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

After much checking and cross referencing I can confirm that the statements are NOT for the credit card or the Santander (A&L) account.

The in-laws are going to call Santander tomorrow and request copies of all statements in the hope that this will help.

They may be able to obtain a few for the last few months but if they want the whole lot they'll have to send a SAR. Even then, it was a bit of a struggle with Santander to go beyond six months. Eventually I did get six years, but I only got statements of my current and savings accounts, none for the old A&L credit card which had been re-branded MBNA. It didn't concern me because I'd already sent MBNA a SAR in March 2010 but I don't think Santander would have the statements for the MBNA cards. My SAR was sent in Dec 2011 and they didn't supply them back then. :ohwell:

Basically when the A&L went belly up, Santander took over, but left the management of the A&L cards totally up to MBNA and started offering its own credit cards.

[Nelix]

Re: CCJ application from Aktiv KApital/PGA Group

I have been speaking with the in-laws regarding attending the court hearing at the local court and they are really worried and quite adamant that they are not able to attend due to nerves, I agree that their nerves are bad. Is there any way in which they can submit their defense in writing.

The mother in law says she would commit suicide if she had to attend court.

Nelix