Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

[TKK]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

but for test , I think, if they had reinstated the full amount as Santander promised in branch in 2008, there would be no debt as they would be full overdraft and I would have left it like that

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

Re

but for test , I think, if they had reinstated the full amount as Santander promised in branch in 2008, there would be no debt as they would be full overdraft and I would have left it like that

Responding to Your PM.

TKK I think you really need to get the story straight as soon as possible only you know
the dates and the events.
You are I think confusing having the overdraft reinstated and having no debt at all, and OD is just another form of loan. There is still a debt that must be paid it cannot " Just leave it like that"!!
nem

[TKK]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

had they reinstated the full amount, there would be no debt
or at least I would have had £1000.00 to work with and the £900, taken off.

without notice they took out the whole thing, sure that can't be right,
so by default I was always over drawn, but with no interest...they failed in their duty of care

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Good Afternoon, by the way....my manners

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can I show you my defence and counterclaim please

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

had they reinstated the full amount, there would be no debt
or at least I would have had £1000.00 to work with and the £900, taken off.

without notice they took out the whole thing, sure that can't be right,
so by default I was always over drawn, but with no interest...they failed in their duty of care

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Good Afternoon, by the way....my manners

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can I show you my defence and counterclaim please

Yes please do!!

To be completely clear: An overdraft if used is a loan and the creditor as you would see can at any time giving notice Recall the OD.

So any money showing in the account other than that that you have paid in is the OD.

Example? OD limit £1000.00 you pay in £500 your account shows £1500 available every penny you spend over that £1000 limit is a loan from the bank.

nem

[TKK]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

Thanks. Fully aware, but notice only applied to reducing it to £1000.00. I appeal them promised it was reinstated and then found out they took everything with no notice., when they said it was reinstated in the branch I heard the underwriter say it on loud speak to the manager.

anyway got manger to sign note confirming that and I still have the note.

They can't do that and then they lied it was going down by 80 per month, from the balance that was impossible.

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defence counter coming up.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

Thanks. Fully aware, but notice only applied to reducing it to £1000.00. I appeal them promised it was reinstated and then found out they took everything with no notice., when they said it was reinstated in the branch I heard the underwriter say it on loud speak to the manager.

Santander have been cutting down overdrafts in the past few years, they did that with mine back in 2012 without an obvious reason, they just said they were reviewed annually and reserved the right to change your O/D amount.

You may be referring to authorized vs unauthorized overdraft, where an unauthorized o/d means higher charges.

When you have an overdrawn balance, the full amount is owed to the bank regardless of whether it was authorized or not, however, banks expect you to repay the overdraft when money gets paid into your current account which is automatically offset from the overdrawn balance, which is money you still owe the bank as long as the balance is in the red. If, as you say, they "took everything", that would mean they left you with an unauthorised overdraft for whatever the outstanding amount was, is that what happened?

defence counter coming up.

You mean a counter-claim? What for?

[TKK]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

Evening, it may appear so but I was able to take out every pence I put in and more with not a single charge applied to the account.
they said down to 1000.00 by end 31/08/2008, but 01/09/2008, everything was gone after they stated that it would all be back on the 01/09/2008.
I realised only in 12/2008, by that time I had to play it smart, open another current account and then move all my banking by myself.

[TKK]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

Santander are not permitted to operate like that they broke FCA rules, banking code of conduct.
this was an unresolved dispute they ought to have written to me to said that my appeal was unsuccessful. they failed to do so.....not permitted,
fell into an unresolved dispute in 2008 as the former Abbey National PLC, now Santander UK PLC breached its regulatory obligation underthe Financial Conduct Authority’s “Principles for Businesses” rule book and under the Banking Code:
1) Principle 6 - Customers Interests - “A firm must pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly” 2) Principle 7 - Communications with clients – “A firm must pay due regard to the information needs of its clients, and communicate information to them in a way which is clear, fair and not misleading”.3) Code 2- fairness and commitment – “We will give you clear information about accounts and services, how they work, their terms and conditions and the interest rates which may apply.”

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counterclaiming for loss and damages. last paid in 2008, but they sold refuted debt in 2014 knowing it was SB'd, completely out of order. that is why I am couterclaiming

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

Santander are not permitted to operate like that they broke FCA rules, banking code of conduct.
this was an unresolved dispute they ought to have written to me to said that my appeal was unsuccessful. they failed to do so.....not permitted,
fell into an unresolved dispute in 2008 as the former Abbey National PLC, now Santander UK PLC breached its regulatory obligation underthe Financial Conduct Authority’s “Principles for Businesses” rule book and under the Banking Code:
1) Principle 6 - Customers Interests - “A firm must pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly” 2) Principle 7 - Communications with clients – “A firm must pay due regard to the information needs of its clients, and communicate information to them in a way which is clear, fair and not misleading”.3) Code 2- fairness and commitment – “We will give you clear information about accounts and services, how they work, their terms and conditions and the interest rates which may apply.”

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counterclaiming for loss and damages. last paid in 2008, but they sold refuted debt in 2014 knowing it was SB'd, completely out of order. that is why I am couterclaiming

Good morning TKK.

Responding to your PM.

I will try to simplify the Overdraft Process and it's functions;

1. You have a bank account on which the bank has agreed a sum by which it will allow the account to go into an overdrawn status (an overdraft. Say £1000.00

2. You have an " income" for example of £500.00 that is paid into the account, your account statement will show that you have £1500.00 available to use:

3. You spend money from that account and this totals £1500.00 account statement will show zero balance.

4. Your income of £500.00 is paid in again this month that reduces the OD to £1000.00 , so you now owe the bank £1000.00.

5. If your income continues to fail to clear the OD each month and this goes on so that you are constantly using the £1000 you accrue a debt to the bank this is what happened to your account.

If the bank recalls all or part of the amount overdrawn as happened to you by lowering the OD limit by £500.00 leaving you with a balance over the Overdraft Limit then recalls the total amount outstanding in your case £1500.00 + it is Not Your Money that has been " taken back" it is the money the bank allowed you to have by means of the overdraft.
You have not personally lost any money that you have paid into the bank, the bank has now cancelled that facility to use the banks money and demands that the £1500 + is paid back immediately.

Given this I am at a loss to see how you can defend a claim nor can I see cause to make a counter claim against the bank.

I'm going to ask the LB team to look at this and if possible give their opinions.

nem

[jon1965]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

One observation
You are referring to organisations and documents that did not exist in 2008 . At that time the OFT and FOS were the regulatory bodies so the banks can hardly be sued for breaches of codes that did not exist

Sorry another observation
You say the account was last used in Dec 2008 but that they sold a SB debt in 2014, well by my calculation the account would not have been SB unless they sold it 6 years after the last use , also it is 6 years from their formal demand for payment(or acknowledgement whichever is the latter) which I suspect was after Dec 2008. In any event under English Law a SB debt is not extinguished and they had every right to sell it (unless there was no agreement in the original account papers

[TKK]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

One observation
You are referring to organisations and documents that did not exist in 2008 . At that time the OFT and FOS were the regulatory bodies so the banks can hardly be sued for breaches of codes that did not exist - Banking Code came into force March 2008, issue began August

Sorry another observation
You say the account was last used in Dec 2008 but that they sold a SB debt in 2014, well by my calculation the account would not have been SB unless they sold it 6 years after the last use , also it is 6 years from their formal demand for payment(or acknowledgement whichever is the latter) which I suspect was after Dec 2008. In any event under English Law a SB debt is not extinguished and they had every right to sell it (unless there was no agreement in the original account papers

- with all due respect I disagree. Reduction in July 2008. they broke agreement, there was no notice that overdraft would be removed, so it falls in to question if there was an unauthorised overdraft in the first instance, all balances were always -1887, never in the black.
they should have notified me in writing that complete overdraft would be withdrawn.
then if not FCA, then FSA rules would have been broken.

[TKK]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

Responding to your PM.

I will try to simplify the Overdraft Process and it's functions;

1. You have a bank account on which the bank has agreed a sum by which it will allow the account to go into an overdrawn status (an overdraft. Say £1000.00

2. You have an " income" for example of £500.00 that is paid into the account, your account statement will show that you have £1500.00 available to use: all statements and balances stated minus - every single time, so I really do not follow. I should have been in the black and not the RED. Banks must notify you before they take part or all of the overdraft. I appealed, what was the outcome of that appeal - they did not resolve the problem or come back to me to say that appeal was unsuccessful. they simply cannot do that, they must have my interests at heart.
selling it in 2014, brings in into line with FCA, PRA and FOS. so regulatory breaches are valid.

3. You spend money from that account and this totals £1500.00 account statement will show zero balance. - it never did and I did spend everything and was -1,889 or -1,567, never zero

4. Your income of £500.00 is paid in again this month that reduces the OD to £1000.00 , so you now owe the bank £1000.00. - Disagree in theory, not in my case

5. If your income continues to fail to clear the OD each month and this goes on so that you are constantly using the £1000 you accrue a debt to the bank this is what happened to your account.

If the bank recalls all or part of the amount overdrawn as happened to you by lowering the OD limit by £500.00 leaving you with a balance over the Overdraft Limit then recalls the total amount outstanding in your case £1500.00 + it is Not Your Money that has been " taken back" it is the money the bank allowed you to have by means of the overdraft. - they said that they would to £1000.00, but never did, breach of agreement no notice issued to me
You have not personally lost any money that you have paid into the bank, the bank has now cancelled that facility to use the banks money and demands that the £1500 + is paid back immediately. they did not do this, there was no demand issued

Given this I am at a loss to see how you can defend a claim nor can I see cause to make a counter claim against the bank. - please do I would love to understand more.

I'm going to ask the LB team to look at this and if possible give their opinions. - as for counterclaims, the matter remained unresolved in 2008 due to bank error, if they had kept to the agreement I would not be in the position that I am today.

nem[/QUOTE]

[jon1965]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

I am sorry but I also believe that you are out of time to counter claim, SOL applies to your claim as well. I know there are exceptions but it all costs money.

The way you explained it doesn't make sense to me, at some point you opened the account with a 0 balance , at the end it was -£1887 therefore you spent £1887 of the banks money. Regardless of if they withdrew the OD or not you would still owe them that money .

I understand why you feel it unfair that they reduced your OD but banks can and do that, credit card companies also reduce credit limits if they think it necessary.
Have you by any chance been looking at info that suggests that banks create money and it doesn't really exist?
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/Doing/Re...bs/index.shtml Banking code came into force 1st Nov 2009 the previous version of 2008 was voluntary

[jon1965]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

There is clearly miscommunication here regarding the timeline, the amounts , what was authorised and what was unauthorised overdrafts .
It appears

had OD of £1900
Bank notified you it was being reduced to £1000
You went into branch and they say it was being reinstated I can only assume it was otherwise as you continued to use the account your transactions would have been declined, cheques bounced and ATM withdrawals refused
Bank cancelled OD without notice (you claim) in Dec 2008
Bank also said OD was being reduced by £80 pm but you say balance was increasing, do you mean the bank stated that the authorised element of you OD was being reduced by £80 PM ?

I think there is little useful advice anyone can give. If the bank terminated your account and demanded repayment prior to 15/6 2009 then the claim is SB if not it is not, I believe any counter claim has no merit and in any event would be time barred

[TKK]

Re: Court Claim - HPH2 LTD / Santander - 15-6-2015

There is clearly miscommunication here regarding the timeline, the amounts , what was authorised and what was unauthorised overdrafts .
It appears - thank you for the above post as well

had OD of £1900 - yes
Bank notified you it was being reduced to £1000 - yes
You went into branch and they say it was being reinstated I can only assume it was otherwise as you continued to use the account your transactions would have been declined, cheques bounced and ATM withdrawals refused - have proof as appeal was faxed in the branch to their HQ
Bank cancelled OD without notice (you claim) in Dec 2008 - on the 31/08/2008, last transaction was in dec 2008
Bank also said OD was being reduced by £80 pm but you say balance was increasing, do you mean the bank stated that the authorised element of you OD was being reduced by £80 PM ? - No what ever I put in I could put everything out as I was always in the minus , never went down by £80 per but I was always in the red and not black.

I think there is little useful advice anyone can give. If the bank terminated your account and demanded repayment prior to 15/6 2009 then the claim is SB if not it is not, I believe any counter claim has no merit and in any event would be time barred

- by taking it back and say down by £80, is demanding it back isn't it and it would fall under SB'd? plus counterclaim for 3000.00, not too bothered about that to be honest, as it was unfair for them to have done that.

so the question is it SB'd?


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thank you very much - jon1965