ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

[jon1965]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

See post 31 above from FP

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

I've had a reply just from Bryan Carter solicitor.

We write further to your letter, requesting disclose under part 31 of the civil procedure rules.

We confirm this matter will most properly be allocated to the small claims track as this is a simple contractual matter and part 31 of the civil procedure rules will therefore not apply. In any event the notices of default and assignment left the control of the claiment when they were dispatched to you.

It is the original creditors policy to issue agreements at the start of the contract and statements throughout the duration of the agreement and in this regards we ask you to refer to your own records.

We confirm our client is not agreeable to an extension for filing the defence

As you will be aware of a claim was issued in this matter on 19 June 15

We are in receipt of your acknowledgemt of service and of your intention to file a defence.

We recommend you seek independent legal advice

please help - what do I do now? Thanks

That's Mr Carter's standard template letter response to virtually ALL requests he receives, this is our standard response: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...385#post410385

Mr Carter will never supply the documents or agree to an extension to file your defence but it's a good idea to show you've exhausted all avenues. You've got till next Wednesday to file your defence if the claim was dated June 19th: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/date...&am=&aw=&ad=33

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Due to being away when the claim was sent I only have until Tuesday to respond to the claim

Please advise what I should do next

I get Wednesday 22nd as above.

- - - Updated - - -

See post 31 above from FP

:yo: :yo: :yo:
This one:

If you haven't got a response to either of your requests, then yes, you'd file the generic 'no documents' defence, examples here: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...t-Court-Claims

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

What usually happens once ive filed my defence?

The court will send your defence to the claimants who have 28 days to respond and say whether they intend to proceed with the claim. These days Mr Carter has taken to sending every defendant a template letter proposing settlement of the claim before responding to the court, likely a last ditch attempt at securing some ca$h when he knows his clients won't be able to come up with the goods in terms of documents.

If they decide to proceed, you will receive a directions questionnaire which you have to fill in and return. Once you've done that, the court will give directions to supply you with the documents they will be relying on. That's where a lot of Mr Carter's claims fall down. :grin: :grin: :grin: There's still some way to go before reaching this stage. :ranger:

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Does it usually go to small claims after you file defence

If the claim is below £10k, yes, it will be allocated to small claims, but only after Mr Carter has responded to the court saying they intend to proceed. If they don't respond in 28 days the claim will be stayed and you won't be informed of this.

[greeny1013]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

Thanks guys, OK so I'm just putting together my defence using the template provided above.

Point 3 in the template says "3: This claim [is for/ appears to be for] a [Credit Card / Loan / Catalogue Account] agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974." - Do I need to change this as it's a current account?

Or are current accounts covered by the CCA and CPR and I just fill in the blanks on the whole template as is?

Thanks again.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

Thanks guys, OK so I'm just putting together my defence using the template provided above.

Point 3 in the template says "3: This claim [is for/ appears to be for] a [Credit Card / Loan / Catalogue Account] agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974." - Do I need to change this as it's a current account?

Yes, the example defence is just that, an example. You'll need to say "The claim is for a current account overdraft with xxx bank". Without the bit about "agreement regulated..."

Or are current accounts covered by the CCA and CPR and I just fill in the blanks on the whole template as is?

Thanks again.

Current accounts are only partly covered by the CCA so you'll have to remove any bits that mention requests under s.77/78 of the CCA.

The request under CPR 31.14 for documents referred to in the particulars of claim still applies though.

Would be good if you could post up your draft here before submitting it. :typing:

[greeny1013]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

Thank FP, Here is my amended defence I'm going to submit it through MCOL once it's been checked over by you :

1: I received the claim xxxxxxxx from the Northampton County Court on 25^th June 2015

2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3: This claim appears to be for a Current Account overdraft with HSBC Bank PLC.

4: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

5. The particulars of claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.

6. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC Bank PLC to Lowell Portfolio LTD on 05/02/2013. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

7. It is denied that HSBC Bank PLC served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

8: On the 28^th June 2015 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.

9. Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP has not sent any of these documents to me.

10: I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5), but they have declined.

11. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

12. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

13. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

14. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

Signed

Dated

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

I've gone back to re-read this thread and I'm a bit confused now, the particulars of claim state: "MONIES DUE FROM THE DEFENDANT TO THE CLAIMANT UNDER AN AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 BETWEEN THE DEFENDANT AND HSBC Bank PLC" and I see mention of a CCA request having been sent, yet you say this was for a current account overdraft. You initial post also says you are 'not sure' whether it's SBd. Did you manage to establish something on that front? i.e. whether they would have issued a final demand before the default date recorded on your credit file?

[greeny1013]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

I'm not sure what it is for to be honest, I believe I did have an overdraft facility available, but I have just described it as an overdraft as that's the only way anyone can owe money on a current account right? I've searched through all letters I have and I don't have anything relating to HSBC or Lowell unfortunately.
I sent the CCA request as instructed in the first reply, however I have not had a response to that (or the PO returned).
What I DO know is that the only credit card I have ever had is one I got this year through my current bank, and I have never had a loan.

Should I just describe it as a Current Account as thats what my credit report says?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

I'm not sure what it is for to be honest, I believe I did have an overdraft facility available, but I have just described it as an overdraft as that's the only way anyone can owe money on a current account right? I've searched through all letters I have and I don't have anything relating to HSBC or Lowell unfortunately.
I sent the CCA request as instructed in the first reply, however I have not had a response to that (or the PO returned).
What I DO know is that the only credit card I have ever had is one I got this year through my current bank, and I have never had a loan.

Should I just describe it as a Current Account as thats what my credit report says?

Their particulars of claim refer to an agreement regulated by the CCA and not a current account overdraft at all. You say you never had a loan. HSBC are one bank who have, in the past, amalgamated two separate accounts (usually a loan and an overdraft) and lumped them together into one single claim. You say you sent the CCA request and got no response whatsoever, not even a letter saying this was a current account therefore it didn't apply.

TBH, in view of the vague particulars and no argument over the CCA request, I'd be inclined to use the standard generic defence that mentions non-compliance with a CCA request, etc. (as you did send one and they didn't say it didn't apply or return the PO). I'd be inclined to leave out paragraph 3 altogether and go straight to say that the PoC do not provide enough information to enable to determine what the debt refers to, because in this case that's the truth. You reckon it could be an O/D but they don't seem to indicate that at all.

I'd leave it up to Mr Carter to establish that this was an overdraft without having a single document to back up his claim. Having said it was a regulated agreement, he doesn't seem to have a clue as to what this debt refers to either!

[greeny1013]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

ok, so something like this?

1: I received the claim Bxxxxxxxx5 from the Northampton County Court on 25^th June 2015

2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to determine what this claim refers to.

4. The particulars of claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.

5. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC Bank PLC to Lowell Portfolio LTD on 05/02/2013. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

6. It is denied that HSBC Bank PLC served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

7: On the 28^th June 2015 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.

8. Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP has not sent any of these documents to me.

9: I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5), but they have declined.

10. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

11. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

12. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

13. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

The generic defence also has the two paragraphs relating to the CCA request which you say you sent and got no reply for. I would be inclined to include them as well, adapting them to whatever you put on your CCA request, did you say s.77 or 78 of the CCA? s.77 refers to loans and s.78 to credit cards and other running account forms of credit. Their pleadings don't mention what type of credit this was.

10. On the [Date] I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to [Claimant] pursuant to section [77 or 78] of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

11. The Claimant has failed to comply with [s77 (1) / s 78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of [s77 (4) / s 78 (6)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

You may need to renumber the paragraphs. Of course we know none of the above applies to an overdraft, the question is, do Mr Carter or his clients know that's what it is? It doesn't look like it they've got a clue!

[nemesis45]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

Looking back at some other threads here and some from my own case lists Carter
has produced quite a few of these alleged agreements, that just appear to be " short
application forms" I guess just in the hope that the defendant is unaware of the short
comings of these documents.
It's a very positive part of your defence that the relevant T's & C's are not complete.

nem

[greeny1013]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

The template I used stated sections 77-79 of CCA - so should I just put S77/S78 - I'll recopy the template and amend it again.
I'll post once done.

Nem - Forgive me for being a bit thick haha, but are you saying they might pull out some form that has been chucked together and suggested I filled it in?
When you the relevant T's & C's do you mean them not responding to my requests?

Thanks

[greeny1013]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

Heres the amended version:

1: I received the claim Bxxxxx5 from the Northampton County Court on 25^th June 2015

2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to determine what this claim refers to, only that it is an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

4. The particulars of claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.

5. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC Bank PLC to Lowell Portfolio LTD on 05/02/2013. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

6. It is denied that HSBC Bank PLC served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

7. It is denied that HSBC Bank PLC served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

8: On the 28^th June 2015 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.

9. Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP has not sent any of these documents to me.

10. On the 28^th June 2015 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Lowell Portfolio LTD pursuant to sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

11. The Claimant has failed to comply with s77/s78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s77/s78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

12: I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5), but they have declined.

13. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

14. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

15. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

16. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ReceivedCounty Court Claim from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

Looking back at some other threads here and some from my own case lists Carter
has produced quite a few of these alleged agreements, that just appear to be " short
application forms" I guess just in the hope that the defendant is unaware of the short
comings of these documents.
It's a very positive part of your defence that the relevant T's & C's are not complete.

nem

I think you may be referring to another thread where they supplied an application form, because in this case they've not produced any terms or anything to even indicate the type of account it was. :confused2: