Cabot Financial/HSBC

[RattyOne]

I have joined this forum on behalf of my husband (the Defendant) as he is completely internet/computer illiterate.

Received a claim? Yes
Issue Date:*8-6-2015
Amount approx:*£17,000
Claimant:*Cabot Financial
Solicitor:*Mortimer Clarke
Original Credit:*HSBC

Particulars of Claim:
By an agreement between HSBC BANK PLC (HSBC) & the Defendant on or around 14/06/2004 ("the Agreement") HSBC agreed to loan the Defendant monies. The Defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due & the Agreement was terminated. The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant. THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS £17,566.42.

Stat barred: Believe so.

I gather from the brief reading I have done so far I need to get him to Acknowledge the claim online? Then send various requests to Cabot and Mortimer Clarke? Please forgive me, I'm pretty confused by terms and the word stressed doesn't come close. Thanks in advance for any hints, tips and guidance.

[nemesis45]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

Good morning welcome to LB.
Yes acknowledge the claim online asap.

Then A CCA request made under section 78 of CCA 1974 to get a copy of the
original agreement, this goes directly to Cabot, a £1 statutory fee is payable
( use a cheque or Postal Order endorsed " For Statutory Fee Only" Cabot has
12 + 2 Working Days to comply.

Next A CPR31.14 request to the solicitors this is specifically for the documents
mentioned in the particulars of claim (POC). From what you have posted only " the agreement " and " an Assignment " are mentioned so only those can be requested. ( An Assignment Notice informing you that the account had been sold to Cabot issued by the original creditor and/or Cabot).

Statute Barred in England and Wales = 6 years with no payments or unequivocal written acknowledgment of the debt, how ever on a fixed term loan the SB 6 year clock starts ticking on the date the creditor can Demand Payment in Full, e.g. the date you received a
" Final Demand for Payment Letter, which would have been followed fairly quickly by the account being defaulted.

A " history) of the account/debt would be helpful.

nem

[RattyOne]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

Thank you so much for your very rapid response and easy next steps to follow. I gather the templates needed for the CCA and CPR31.14 are in the sticky posts? Should they be sent signed for?

When Acknowledging Service online does he tick the Intend to defend box? How long has he then got to file it? Sorry for all the questions but my head is spinning and I'm trying to make a clear plan.

History to this is brief as he took this loan out before we met. He believes the date looks about right (could possibly be earlier) but he's having a good think while at work today. We have no paperwork to assist. I know some payments were made via Gregory Pennington but those had certainly ceased by the end of 2005. I'm trying to think if any other payments were made since then but at the moment I can't think straight enough.

I do have one more question though, if you defend and lose are courts/judges harsher than if you just admitted? What is likely to happen if he does lose? Pessimistic maybe but I like to have all outcomes in my head.

[Kati]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

Basic first steps:

Firstly, don't panic.

Secondly, many of these Consumer Credit debt based Court Claims are issued through the County Court Business Centre and are rather lacking in detail and information. The are often claims bought by debt purchasers who don't have the paperwork to back them up to hand and who wing it on the hope that they obtain a default judgment.

So, first steps (within 14 days of receiving the claim)

1: ACKNOWLEDGE THE CLAIM - you can do this online usually at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
You'll need your claim reference and password from the front of the claim form - this will extend the time you have to respond to the claim to 28 days from when you received it

2: Send A CCA REQUEST to the CLAIMANT ( see here )
This applies to all credit cards / loans / hire purchase / store cards type debt. It doesn't apply to Mobile Phones / Utilities or Overdrafts.

3: Send a CPR request to the CLAIMANT'S SOLICITORS ( see here )
This applies to everything unless they happen to have supplied you with a bunch of paperwork to back up their claim (v. unlikely)

If you are unsure of any of those steps then please make a new thread on the forum (you must be registered to do this)

Once those letters have been sent off you should make a new thread on the forum (you must be registered to do this) and make a post titled the claimants name v your username, and containing the date of issue from your claim form, date of service (ie when you received the claim form), type out the Particulars of Claim (exclude account numbers) and tell us the approx amount of the claim. Also tell us any specific disputes or background to the claim you may have. If you know please also tell us the last time you made a payment towards the debt or acknowledged the debt in writing, and confirm you have acknowledged the claim, and what letters you have sent off.
OR
If you received a court claim and want to start a new thread in this forum please complete this form . Thank you.


And people here will help guide you through the next steps.

NOTE: The defence date is 28 days from service (ie when you received the claim) or 33 days (which allows 5 days for service) from the issue date printed on the front of the claim form.

http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadd.html

All the info you'll need to start with is in the links above

You're in good hands with Nem xx

[RattyOne]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

Need to get reading but just wanted to say a huge thank you. Can't quite believe how fast the responses have been and how friendly people are here. I don't feel quite so helpless any more.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

Thank you so much for your very rapid response and easy next steps to follow. I gather the templates needed for the CCA and CPR31.14 are in the sticky posts? Should they be sent signed for?

Yes, they are linked to on Kati's post above. :yo: They should be sent signed for so they can be tracked.

When Acknowledging Service online does he tick the Intend to defend box?

Yes, defend the whole claim. :thumb:

How long has he then got to file it? Sorry for all the questions but my head is spinning and I'm trying to make a clear plan.

A maximum of 33 days from date printed on the claim form. However, it is often possible to agree to a 28 day extension with the claimant's solicitors. I note Mortimer Clarke are acting in this case and, from experience, they tend to offer their agreement to an extension almost automatically, upon receipt of the CPR request. If an extension is agreed, the 28 days start to run from the date the defence would have been due.

It should be noted that, unlike many cases posted on this site, this would not be allocated to the small claims track due to its value, therefore they DO have an obligation to respond to the CPR 31.14 request.

History to this is brief as he took this loan out before we met. He believes the date looks about right (could possibly be earlier) but he's having a good think while at work today. We have no paperwork to assist. I know some payments were made via Gregory Pennington but those had certainly ceased by the end of 2005. I'm trying to think if any other payments were made since then but at the moment I can't think straight enough.

If a statute barred defence is filed, the onus would be on the claimant to show it is not. :thumb: However, it's still worth requesting all the paperwork as a back-up to the SBd argument.

I do have one more question though, if you defend and lose are courts/judges harsher than if you just admitted? What is likely to happen if he does lose? Pessimistic maybe but I like to have all outcomes in my head.

This is a civil matter and things don't work in the same way as with criminal cases, where you often get off more lightly if you plead guilty. In this case an admission would result in a CCJ for the full amount (£17k :scared or for at least the amount admitted if a partial admission is filed.

From what you say above, there's a good chance of this debt being statute barred so I wouldn't even consider an admission. :nono:

It may be worth sending a SAR to the original creditor a.s.a.p. They have 40 days to respond so you wouldn't get the statements before the defence is due, however, as I said above, Mortimer Clarke almost always agree to a 28 day extension in which case he should get them in time. Even if that wasn't the case, the could come in handy at a later stage; the process is likely to take several months. As this would be a fast track case, it went that far, it probably wouldn't be going to trial till next year. :clock:

[RattyOne]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

What does Fast Track mean? Confused again!

33 days from 08/06 = 11/07 if my calculations are correct? If they offered an extension it would then be 08/08?

[nemesis45]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

Thank you so much for your very rapid response and easy next steps to follow. I gather the templates needed for the CCA and CPR31.14 are in the sticky posts? Should they be sent signed for?

When Acknowledging Service online does he tick the Intend to defend box? How long has he then got to file it? Sorry for all the questions but my head is spinning and I'm trying to make a clear plan.

History to this is brief as he took this loan out before we met. He believes the date looks about right (could possibly be earlier) but he's having a good think while at work today. We have no paperwork to assist. I know some payments were made via Gregory Pennington but those had certainly ceased by the end of 2005. I'm trying to think if any other payments were made since then but at the moment I can't think straight enough.

I do have one more question though, if you defend and lose are courts/judges harsher than if you just admitted? What is likely to happen if he does lose? Pessimistic maybe but I like to have all outcomes in my head.

Follow Kat's advice and you won't go wrong. Get the " paper work " sorted and posted by signed for post, check date received on line.

If Cabot cannot produce the agreement within the 12 + 2 Working days expect a silly letter claiming they have 40 days to get the information, we can deal with that as when.

The debt becomes unenforceable after the 12 + days has expired, and remains so until the agreement is produced.

The court decides on the " balance of probabilities " if a debt is enforceable or not, both parties state their case and the judge decides.
Out of interest have you checked your credit reference files for this account, there's been some allegations that I know of that default date may have been " altered due to a clerical error", you could try Noddle it's free online.

nem

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

What does Fast Track mean? Confused again!

There are differences in the way cases are handled, depending on the value of the claim. Most claims below £10k are allocated to the small claims track, above that amount to fast track. Although to start with the process is much the same, this fact may be of significance as the case progresses.

33 days from 08/06 = 11/07 if my calculations are correct? If they offered an extension it would then be 08/08?

Yes, your calculations are correct, this website can be of help: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/date...&am=&aw=&ad=33
With an extension: www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadded.html?m1=07&d1=11&y1=2015&type=add&ay=&am =&aw=&ad=28

If the account was defaulted over six years ago, there isn't likely to be anything on the credit files relating to it.

If this was a loan (as opposed to an overdraft), the SBd clock would start to run after the first missed payment. :thumb:

[RattyOne]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

Wow, I have lots to process, thanks again everyone for your help.
Letters currently being written :-)

In answer to (I think Nem) about checking Noodle, he doesn't have a bank account so can't sign up to look. Any other options?

As a change of subject though for a second (I hope you guys don't mind) something that hubby threw out earlier on the phone to me on his break....would bankruptcy be an option in his case? He's more than grateful for all the advice given, I think he was just thinking out loud so to speak.

[nemesis45]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

Fixed sum/term loan?? See Limitations Act 1980 section 6.

nem.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

In answer to (I think Nem) about checking Noodle, he doesn't have a bank account so can't sign up to look. Any other options?

There isn't likely to be anything on any CRA for a debt defaulted over six years ago, furthermore, the default date on credit files isn't an indication of whether a debt is statute barred or not.

As a change of subject though for a second (I hope you guys don't mind) something that hubby threw out earlier on the phone to me on his break....would bankruptcy be an option in his case? He's more than grateful for all the advice given, I think he was just thinking out loud so to speak.

Bankruptcy is a last resort, it's consequences are much more far reaching than a CCJ would be, and really only worth considering if you have no other option. :mmph:

Given the likelihood of this debt being SBd, I would put the thought out of my mind, at least with regards to this account. We'd really need to know a lot more about his circumstances and full financial position (and yours) to be able to comment further.

[nemesis45]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

BR is the ultimate process in " collecting " debt, and not one to rush into!

His personal circumstances e.g. property owned other realisable assets etc. must
be taken into consideration.

Depending on how much his total liability is a Debt Relief order may be suitabl.

Take a look at this process online.

nem

[RattyOne]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

I've found and read the Limitations Act 1980 section 6 but couldn't understand it, sorry. Wish these things were written in plain English!

The amount of the unsecured loan originally I don't know until hubby comes home but I'm guessing it was over 5 years.

I shall put bankruptcy out of mind for now, understand completely more info is needed but as we're not home owners (council house, I'm sole tenant) and with the only real asset being a 2004 Ford KA needed for work I can see why hubby suggested it.

[jon1965]

Re: Cabot Financial/HSBC

As said BR is not something to be entered into lightly and frankly could be done after the CCJ was entered if necessary. I have neaarly 3 times that debt and because of my lack of assets or paid employment nit may have been suitable for me but I didn't do it and so far have not had any claims made against me - I guess they are hoping I will start work before they become SB but no chance of that because of other commitments