Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

Yes, I dont think there is any advantage for them in having the account number requested, and as you say they have to be able to identify the actual account.

It's a good idea not to give away and further details in the CCA request if all that is mentioned in a POC is " an agreement regulated by CCA 1974" daft to assist the claimant in this way.

nem

[Guest]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

It's a good idea not to give away and further details in the CCA request if all that is mentioned in a POC is " an agreement regulated by CCA 1974" daft to assist the claimant in this way.

nem

But what happens if there is more than one account, and what advantage does not stating an account number they already have going to give them.
I dont really see how it is, "daft "to assist them, surely you are trying to get the information, so you can determine the enforcablitity of the agreement.

I think if the idea is to make it difficult for them to find a copy, it rather defeats the object and is misplaced, because you can bet they will come up with one if possible before the proceedings commence no matter what you do

I have done many CCA requests going back over many years and have never come across this idea before, just trying to establish the reasoning behind it.

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

You are simply requesting in this situation the agreement mentioned in the POC , multiple accounts don't come into this, if the claimant comes up with the wrong agreement that's then their problem.

I worked with this method for years and have been able to get many cases discontinued because DCA's are careless.

If just making a CCA request because a DCA has reared up out of the blue quoting an account No. fine otherwise it's the account mentioned in the letter or claim.


nem

[Guest]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

You are simply requesting in this situation the agreement mentioned in the POC , multiple accounts don't come into this, if the claimant comes up with the wrong agreement that's then their problem.

I worked with this method for years and have been able to get many cases discontinued because DCA's are careless.

If just making a CCA request because a DCA has reared up out of the blue quoting an account No. fine otherwise it's the account mentioned in the letter or claim.


nem

I really dont get into an argument over this Nem, but with all due respect, a CCA request is not for ,"requesting information in the POC", that would be a request under CPR.

A CCA request can be made at any time, and is for information purposes, i see little point in trying to prevent the debtor providing information which may well help to develop a defence.

However you are entitled to your opinion of course.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

But what happens if there is more than one account, and what advantage does not stating an account number they already have going to give them.

That was precisely my point, after all it's quite common to have a loan and one or more credit cards with the same bank. For example, I used to have a loan and a credit card with the A&L. That meant sending a request under s.77 for the loan and one under s.78 for the card. The loan was recent and enforceable so I kept the DD running until I paid it off. The card was ancient and unenforceable (no agreement available) so I never paid a penny afterwards.

I dont really see how it is, "daft "to assist them, surely you are trying to get the information, so you can determine the enforcablitity of the agreement.

Indeed, as above, I based my decisions on that information.

I think if the idea is to make it difficult for them to find a copy, it rather defeats the object and is misplaced, because you can bet they will come up with one if possible before the proceedings commence no matter what you do

In this case proceedings have already been issued so there would be even more pressure to come up with the goods, which they can do at any point until the trial. If it turns out they have an enforceable one, I'd rather attempt to settle beforehand than be landed with a CCJ. :scared:

I have done many CCA requests going back over many years and have never come across this idea before, just trying to establish the reasoning behind it.

Same here, hence my question. :noidea:

- - - Updated - - -

It's a good idea not to give away and further details in the CCA request if all that is mentioned in a POC is " an agreement regulated by CCA 1974" daft to assist the claimant in this way.

nem

The CCA request is not a request for documents mentioned on the particulars of claim, that goes in the CPR request. You are entitled to send a CCA request at any time as long as there is an outstanding balance, no judgment has been obtained on the account and you haven't sent another request in the last 30 days.

I've sent a number of CCA requests despite not being taken to court.

[Inthemire]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

Ooooh crikey! I've started something here! Good job I'm wearing my crash hat..

Ok. So, I managed to complete the CCA request and get it in the Saturday morning post via 1st class recorded mail. I added the CC number eep: and an anti tamper signature strip (thanks Kati!).

I've now complete the CPR request and was wondering if I could just check a couple of details on it before I send it please? I've attached the template (from the CPR link) and added a few basics.

1. I've just taken the date from the claim form and added the 5 days service - is that ok?

2. The date I'm filing the defence sentence - what date do I put there? The final day of the 33 days?

3. The list of documents I'm asking them to produce - I've used the 3 documents that the Claimant has mentioned in the particulars of the claim as directed within the template. Is that correct? The particulars of the claim in full are as follows:

The Claimant claims the sum of 8,xxx,xx being monies due from the defendant to the Claimant under a regulated agreement originally between the Defendant and Lloyds Bank PLC. The Defendant's account number was xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx and was assigned to the claimant on 20/06/2014, notice of this has been provided to the Defendant. The Defendent has failed to make payments in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The claimant claims the sum of 8,xxx,xx and costs. The claimant has complied , as far as is necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

Many thanks in advance.

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

If one takes care to read a post, when making a CCA request in regard to a debt on which a claim has been started and an " agreement " is mentioned in the POC you are requesting that agreement.
If making a CCA request for any other reason yes quote the number if you have it!

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

Ooooh crikey! I've started something here! Good job I'm wearing my crash hat..

Ok. So, I managed to complete the CCA request and get it in the Saturday morning post via 1st class recorded mail. I added the CC number eep: and an anti tamper signature strip (thanks Kati!).

No worries, in the bigger scheme of things, it won't make much difference, it is the actual content of the agreement what makes it enforceable or unenforceable, not the manner in which it was requested. The devil is in the detail, but that will apply to the actual document, if they provide you with one. The idea is just to make it as straightforward as possible for them to comply so they can't say they didn't respond because they had no idea what account you were referring to or something like that.

I've now complete the CPR request and was wondering if I could just check a couple of details on it before I send it please? I've attached the template (from the CPR link) and added a few basics.

1. I've just taken the date from the claim form and added the 5 days service - is that ok?

2. The date I'm filing the defence sentence - what date do I put there? The final day of the 33 days?

Yes, it would be 33 days from the date printed on claim form. You can leave the date you received the claim as the actual date you got it, it doesn't affect the fact that the law allows five days for service.

3. The list of documents I'm asking them to produce - I've used the 3 documents that the Claimant has mentioned in the particulars of the claim as directed within the template. Is that correct? The particulars of the claim in full are as follows:

The Claimant claims the sum of 8,xxx,xx being monies due from the defendant to the Claimant under a regulated agreement originally between the Defendant and Lloyds Bank PLC. The Defendant's account number was xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx and was assigned to the claimant on 20/06/2014, notice of this has been provided to the Defendant. The Defendent has failed to make payments in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The claimant claims the sum of 8,xxx,xx and costs. The claimant has complied , as far as is necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

Many thanks in advance.

SPOT ON! :thumb: That's precisely the idea, the documents requested under CPR 31.14 should be those mentioned on the particulars and nothing else.

The CCA request is not related to the particulars of claim in any way, you are entitled to send one at any time even if they are not taking you to court.

One thing I noted on the letter you attached, where it says "To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim", if you are not counter claiming anything I'd just leave 'defence' and take the rest out.

[Guest]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

The CCA request is not related to the particulars of claim in any way, you are entitled to send one at any time even if they are not taking you to court.

.

Spot on, in act in Cary the judge made a point in saying that information provided in one of these requests should not be used for such purposes, the requests are for information only, .and as you say are available to the debtor for as long as a sum outstanding remains under the contract

[Inthemire]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

Thanks very much for your help and support so far. I sent the CPR request yesterday via 1st class recorded mail so hopefully it'll be with MKDP either today or tomorrow.

I have tried my best to collate all the information both FlamingParrot and Nemesis45 have requested and have detailed this below. I can redact and scan anything I have referred to if you need more information or would like to read any of the documentation for yourselves.

This claim relates to a Lloyds Credit card. I’m unsure when I applied for the card exactly but I do know that this was originally an Accucard. I received a letter in April 2006 which explained that, as issuer of the Accucard credit card, Lloyds TSB will be withdrawing the Accucard credit card from the 24^th May 2006 and this will be replaced with a Lloyds TSB Platinum credit card.

Unfortunately I cannot remember how I first applied for it.

There was no PPI attached to the card.

As far as I can see, the final payment made to this card was on the 9^th of June 2011 but I did acknowledge the debt in writing on the 25th November 2011 when I requested that they stopped action to recover the monies whilst I assessed my financial situation and submitted a repayment proposal. I have made no further contact with Lloyds or subsequent DCAs since this date and I have not disputed it with Lloyds, MKDP or anyone else at any time.

I received a default notice from Lloyds dated the 14^th March 2012.

I have not sent a CCA request for this account prior to the one I sent on Saturday.

The first item of correspondence that I can find from MKDP themselves regarding this card was dated the 4^th of February 2015. This letter begins – ‘Further to our recent communication regarding transfer of ownership of your balance we have not received your offer of payment.’ I do not recall receiving a letter regarding transfer of ownership of the balance and I don’t seem to have a letter to that effect here so it’s likely that I did not receive one that stated the above.

I received another ‘general’ type letter from MKDP dated the 16^th February 2015 encouraging me to call and discuss the account. I next received a letter from MKDP dated the 8^th of April 2015 informing me that the account may be transferred to Keynes Collections for litigation consideration to resolve this on their behalf if contact is not made within 7 days.

A letter headed ‘Keynes Collections’ was received by myself, dated 13^th April 2015, explaining that they had been instructed by MKDP LLP to collect the outstanding balance as I’d failed to respond to previous correspondence or agreed a payment plan. It goes on to state that the letter constitutes a formal demand for payment of x,xxx.xx and is made in accordance with the Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct of the Civil Procedure Rules. This letter continues in a similar vein and goes on to say that unless full payment, or a suitable payment plan, is agreed within 14 days of the date of the letter, legal action to recover the debt may be taken against me without further warning. This is the final piece of correspondence I received prior to the court claim 20.06.2015.

I hope that's all useful information and has answered the questions you have posed.

I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Many thanks again.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

This claim relates to a Lloyds Credit card. I’m unsure when I applied for the card exactly but I do know that this was originally an Accucard. I received a letter in April 2006 which explained that, as issuer of the Accucard credit card, Lloyds TSB will be withdrawing the Accucard credit card from the 24^th May 2006 and this will be replaced with a Lloyds TSB Platinum credit card.

Unfortunately I cannot remember how I first applied for it.

This means it was taken out before April 2007, so far so good. :thumb:

There was no PPI attached to the card.

As far as I can see, the final payment made to this card was on the 9^th of June 2011 but I did acknowledge the debt in writing on the 25th November 2011 when I requested that they stopped action to recover the monies whilst I assessed my financial situation and submitted a repayment proposal. I have made no further contact with Lloyds or subsequent DCAs since this date and I have not disputed it with Lloyds, MKDP or anyone else at any time.

Even without the acknowledgment, it still wouldn't have been SBd at the time the claim was issued if you still paid on the 9th of June, it's only the 10th today and the cause of action starts to run from when you first miss a payment which would have been a month later.

I received a default notice from Lloyds dated the 14^th March 2012.

A bit late, nine months after your last payment. Is there any chance you could post that up? Remove your personal details but leave the dates and amounts in as those are the relevant bits.

A letter headed ‘Keynes Collections’ was received by myself, dated 13^th April 2015, explaining that they had been instructed by MKDP LLP to collect the outstanding balance as I’d failed to respond to previous correspondence or agreed a payment plan. It goes on to state that the letter constitutes a formal demand for payment of x,xxx.xx and is made in accordance with the Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct of the Civil Procedure Rules. This letter continues in a similar vein and goes on to say that unless full payment, or a suitable payment plan, is agreed within 14 days of the date of the letter, legal action to recover the debt may be taken against me without further warning. This is the final piece of correspondence I received prior to the court claim 20.06.2015.

Did you reply to this letter?

[Inthemire]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

Even without the acknowledgment, it still wouldn't have been SBd at the time the claim was issued if you still paid on the 9th of June, it's only the 10th today and the cause of action starts to run from when you first miss a payment which would have been a month later.

Would you mind just explaining that for me please?

Did you reply to this letter?

No, I didnt reply to this letter or acknowledge it in any way.

I have attached a redacted copy of the default notice and the N1 as Nem requested in an earlier post.

Thanks

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

Would you mind just explaining that for me please?

A debt is statute barred when there has been no payments or written acknowledgment in at least six years. The clock starts to run from the cause of action, which is when the creditor could have taken action to recover the debt. That wouldn't be the day you made your last payment as they'd have no way of knowing you wouldn't be making further payments after that so there would be no cause of action.

In your case, you say you made a payment on the 9th of June 2009, the claim was issued less than six years after that, only just, but it still means it's not SBd.

No, I didnt reply to this letter or acknowledge it in any way.

That is the problem, many people think replying to a letter before action acknowledges the debt and avoid responding, however, it may be possible to avoid a claim being issued by responding to such a letter not with an acknowledgment, but challenging the claimant to produce the documents they would rely on if they were to issue a claim. I realise it's a little late for that in this case but I'm just posting it for future reference.

I

have attached a redacted copy of the default notice and the N1 as Nem requested in an earlier post.

Thanks

I shall take a look at them now.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

I have attached a redacted copy of the default notice and the N1

The DN appears to be compliant in terms of giving you more than 14 days to remedy the breach including an allowance for service of the notice. It doesn't ask for the full amount as some DNs do, I assume the amount they provide was how much you were in arrears at the time.

You may want to look at this post: MKDP LLP Fail again
None of the dates referred to on that post are on your N1, I can only see the date of assignment quoted on there.

the pleadings fail to give the important dates such as date of agreement, date of default, date of termination, date of last payment

[Inthemire]

Re: Court Claim - MKDP LLP / Lloyds - 20-5-2015

You may want to look at this post: MKDP LLP Fail again
None of the dates referred to on that post are on your N1, I can only see the date of assignment quoted on there.

No, the N1 doesn't detail those dates, just the date of assignment as you've pointed out. It does worry me that I'd need some representation though to push a case similar to the one in the post. Particularly as things seem to be stacking in MKDP's favour at the moment with regard to compliance. Or at least that's how it seems to me at this point. :noidea:

I am aware that the 33 days are up this coming Monday (22nd) and I have still not received a reply to the CCA or CPR requests. What do you think would be the best course of action at this stage please? I assume that this deadline date still applies even though I have requested these documents from MKDP?