court hearing

[blackvelvet]

I have received a county court hearing date from a builders' merchant.
I have never refused to pay the bill, but I have challenged the amount.
Their original solicitor wrote to me to tell me he was not representing them anymore, but they have now have a new solicitor acting for them.
At no time have I refused to pay what I lawfully owe, but I have questioned the amount on the invoice. I have asked them on a few occasions to check the amount and provide me with various information regarding my account. They have acknowledged this fact, but have refused to provide my requested information.
Either: 1 - Can the county court rule that I must pay the specified amount based purely on their invoice?
Or: 2 - Will the builders' merchant have to then provide the information I originally requested to ascertain the actual amount owed?
If the second scenario applies, who is then responsible for the court costs?
THANKS!!

[pt2537]

Re: court hearing

I have received a county court hearing date from a builders' merchant.
I have never refused to pay the bill, but I have challenged the amount.
Their original solicitor wrote to me to tell me he was not representing them anymore, but they have now have a new solicitor acting for them.
At no time have I refused to pay what I lawfully owe, but I have questioned the amount on the invoice. I have asked them on a few occasions to check the amount and provide me with various information regarding my account. They have acknowledged this fact, but have refused to provide my requested information.
Either: 1 - Can the county court rule that I must pay the specified amount based purely on their invoice?
Or: 2 - Will the builders' merchant have to then provide the information I originally requested to ascertain the actual amount owed?
If the second scenario applies, who is then responsible for the court costs?
THANKS!!

Ok the problem is that there is no way we can answer the above without more information.

How much is being claimed? without this info we cant really start to look at costs, although there is also an issue withthe contract itself, if the contract allows legal costs to be recovered then this may change things.

[blackvelvet]

Re: court hearing

The amount being claimed is £950 including court fee and solicitor's costs - it has been allocated to the small claims court.

There is no contract, it is a trade account with a builders' merchant. The situation arose because when I checked the last item I purchased on my account there was no discount. It was their mistake. We then requested that they check our purchases for the last 2 years to ascertain whether or not we received our due discount on each item - they agreed to do this, however despite our reminding them on several occasions they did not do this check, but instead issued a summons for the invoiced amount.

At no time have we refused to pay any monies we lawfully owe, but we question their system and wish to have the amount verified.

Please note that included in the amount are solicitor's costs of £70, but this solicitor has written to us to inform us that he is no longer acting for the builders' merchant. Are we still responsible for their cost?

Please note - we have never refused to pay any money we owe.

Refer to the first query - what options does the court have?

[dan_1207]

Re: court hearing

What have you filled in and sent to the court in the way of paperwork, as you mention you have a date for a hearing? Did you acknowledge the claim/defend it?

The appropriate route is/would've been to admit what you feel you're liable to pay, and defend the balance of the claim on the basis that a discount has not been applied.

In a small claims matter, the court has a wide range of discretion. As regards costs, they're likely only able to claim the solicitor's costs and court fee from you in the event their claim is successful.

The burden of proof is on them to show you owe it, and that the discount does NOT apply. It will be up to you to show that the discount DOES apply.

[blackvelvet]

Re: court hearing

Thanks for the reply.

Does the fact that we have tried everything to get them to ascertain whether the discount is correct or not go in our favour, as surely they should have gone down that avenue before court proceedings were issued?

Yes I have acknowledged the claim and disagreed with it, and made a counter claim based on what I assess that I should have had discounted. However I cannot properly assess this in any way without the cooperation of the builders' merchant.

Can I claim expenses for any witness that I bring?

[dan_1207]

Re: court hearing

The Court expects both parties to try to avoid litigation and use it only as a last resort. If you can show that you've used your best attempts to settle this matter then it will show you in a good light.

If they're suing you for an unpaid account, why are you counter claiming for the reduced portion (if you've not yet paid it?)

You can claim certain expenses as a litigant in person, and the reasonable expenses of your witnesses can be claimed also.

[pt2537]

Re: court hearing

What have you filled in and sent to the court in the way of paperwork, as you mention you have a date for a hearing? Did you acknowledge the claim/defend it?

The appropriate route is/would've been to admit what you feel you're liable to pay, and defend the balance of the claim on the basis that a discount has not been applied.

In a small claims matter, the court has a wide range of discretion. As regards costs, they're likely only able to claim the solicitor's costs and court fee from you in the event their claim is successful.

The burden of proof is on them to show you owe it, and that the discount does NOT apply. It will be up to you to show that the discount DOES apply.

If the Contract allows for any reasonable costs and fees to be recovered then this will oust the small claims cost rules within CPR rule 27 ( see Shaw v Nine Regions and also Amex v Sahota)

So much depends on the terms of the contract as to what costs are recoverable, also its worth noting contractual costs are akin to costs on the indemnity basis, so its important to look at this point first.

[des8]

Re: court hearing

[QUOTE=blackvelvet;529045There is no contract, it is a trade account with a builders' merchant

There is a contract. If you purchase an item from a seller, there is a contract.
You will probably find on the back of each invoice the terms and condition that the builder's merchants apply in every case.
If you had agreed a separate deal with them you might find there is conflict between your agreement and their T&Cs.
I found this out the hard way some years ago.

[pt2537]

Re: court hearing

There is no contract, it is a trade account with a builders' merchant

There is a contract. If you purchase an item from a seller, there is a contract.
You will probably find on the back of each invoice the terms and condition that the builder's merchants apply in every case.
If you had agreed a separate deal with them you might find there is conflict between your agreement and their T&Cs.
I found this out the hard way some years ago.

Indeed, unless the terms are not incorporated into the contract, then you are bound by them. Of course there are also pieces of legislation that apply to terms of contracts such as UTCCR 1999

[des8]

Re: court hearing

Would UTCCR apply in this matter as it is a trade account and therefore presumably business and not a "consumer"?

[blackvelvet]

Re: court hearing

Thanks Dan - they're suing us for an unpaid account, but we are counter claiming as we believe the balance of probabilities suggests that they have been overcharging us for approximately 2 years, so we are thinking that they would then owe us money - and this will only be proved one way or the other if they provide the information we have requested, namely the accounts for the last 2 years with the full prices and with our discount, so we can tell whether or not they have charged us correctly or incorrectly.

THANKS!

[blackvelvet]

Re: court hearing

Thanks pt2537 - not sure what you mean, but have dug out one of the collection notes & will post anything that seems relevant when I've read it with my magnifying glass!!!

[blackvelvet]

Re: court hearing

Thanks des8 - let us know about whether UTCCR is applicable & what that would mean to us - THANKS!!

[pt2537]

Re: court hearing

Indeed, hence why we need to know more about the case, without more info we are guessing which is dangerous with litigation.

Would UTCCR apply in this matter as it is a trade account and therefore presumably business and not a "consumer"?

[des8]

Re: court hearing

PT was suggesting that you might have protection from consumer law.
However there is very little protection for businesses from consumer law, which is aimed at protecting the private individual.

From your posts it isn't possible to tell if you have a trade account as a business or an account as a private individual.
You mention a trade discount, but this can be given to a private individual who is carrying out eg a house restoration. (I know 'cos I negotiated such a deal many years ago when I renovated some derelict cottages and I am not a builder)