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How to Win against 1st Credit Finance - Lloyds Bank
I will try to keep this as brief as possible, but I would like to thank all those people who have posted some really helpful things up.
I had to go to Court on the 23rd December (very scary) but won against 1st Credit. As those scummy wholesale debt purchasing companies probably all use the same format, I hope this will help others going through the same thing.
The first thing that helps is not to admit the debt. If you have some prior arrangement like paying the original debt in instalments or kind of debt management agreement then you won't win. The second thing is don't pay the £1 if you are claiming that their claim is statute-barred, because they can claim the £1 is paid towards the debt, and the meter will start running again.
On to my defence, I had asked 1st Credit for a copy of the Deed of Assignment (not Notice) and they said they didn't have to provide this. Wrong, the District Judge said you were entitled to this under the rules of Disclosure. Ask for this under section 18 of the CPR Rules in your defence. I ran the one which basically said I couldn't confirm or deny their claim as I had asked for documents and these weren't forthcoming, which is a perfectly valid defence at law. Remember it is for them to prove their case, not for you to disprove it so the 'burden' will always rest with them. I knew they wouldn't want to because it would show they'd bought the debt for peanuts.
He also explained s74(1)(b) did not exclude the need for any agreement. The DJ said his interpretation was that this section acted as protection for the consumer. As 1st Credit had stepped into Lloyds' shoes, it meant that this prevented Lloyds coming after you if you had paid 1st Credit. In other words, you could not be sued for the same debt by both of them.
The other thing the DJ flagged up was that the Bank statements they provided showed the final entry as a nil balance. Look at your statement to see if this is the case. You have a very good argument for showing there is no claim based on the fact there is no balance owing (I didn't spot that). The guy for 1st Credit couldn't explain it either, which made him look a bigger numpty than he did already. I was squirming in my seat for him! The judge also said the bank statements weren't worth the paper they were written on as they did not have any statement of truth attached to them. His analogy was being phoned up by a PPI company and told you were owed £3,000. He said just because they said that, didn't make it true.
The guy representing 1st Credit kept repeating the same thing like a broken record, which did him no favours. He also turned up with documents on a tablet, which again, DJs are old school, so make sure you bring your file of papers. The guy then said to the DJ he didn't know what was going on because he only had the file that morning. The DJ just sat there rolling his eyes at this stage.
He then asked if I had to say anything. I gave him a brief history that I had lost my job and hadn't been able to find another, and had also had to sell my house to avoid repossession, which is true. I told him that I was probably going to incriminate myself but I felt it was wrong that 1st Credit could buy a debt for next to nothing and try to claim the full amount. He asked how I knew, and I said I didn't because I had asked for the Deed of Assignment and 1st Credit had said they didn't need to provide it. He asked for the copy of the letter I'd sent 1st Credit asking for the Deed, which I showed to him, so bring all the paperwork that's passed between you and them as you may need to refer to it.
He then gave his judgment, and dismissed the claim!! He said they hadn't proved their claim. He mentioned he had dealt with a lot of these claims, which he had just basically had to waved through, but because I had challenged 1st Credit he felt they had not proved their claim. The guy asked for leave to appeal, and the DJ asked him on what grounds, which he couldn't say. He just kept repeating what he'd already said about not having to provide a copy of the Deed of Assignment!
The DJ then refused it on the grounds 1st Credit claim had no reasonable prospect of success. He also awarded me travelling expenses of £8 (petrol and parking) and the maximum allowed of £90, because I told him I run a stall selling Christmas stuff which I had to cancel to attend Court. Make sure you work out how much any wages or earnings you have lost for the day and claim it back. I'm going to up to town today to bank my cheque for £98!
I know I was bricking myself before the hearing, but it's really informal, and if you don't attend they will get a judgment against you by default, which I'm sure they hope will happen. If it goes against you, make an offer to pay in instalments, so at least they won't be hounding you for the whole lot. It will appear on your credit file for six years, if any judgment isn't settled within a month though.
Finally, I'd just like to say, no matter how bleak things seem, just remember they can't kill you. Just stand up to them or if you feel unable to, get help from Citizens Advice or another of the free advice companies. No-one will think badly because you're in debt - we've just been unlucky. Think of all the big hitters, Woolworths, Comet, etc, that have folded so what chance have we got? Remember, fortune does favour the brave.
Have a lovely peaceful New Year, and thanks again to each and every person out there for all your help. I couldn't have done it without you.
I had to go to Court on the 23rd December (very scary) but won against 1st Credit. As those scummy wholesale debt purchasing companies probably all use the same format, I hope this will help others going through the same thing.
The first thing that helps is not to admit the debt. If you have some prior arrangement like paying the original debt in instalments or kind of debt management agreement then you won't win. The second thing is don't pay the £1 if you are claiming that their claim is statute-barred, because they can claim the £1 is paid towards the debt, and the meter will start running again.
On to my defence, I had asked 1st Credit for a copy of the Deed of Assignment (not Notice) and they said they didn't have to provide this. Wrong, the District Judge said you were entitled to this under the rules of Disclosure. Ask for this under section 18 of the CPR Rules in your defence. I ran the one which basically said I couldn't confirm or deny their claim as I had asked for documents and these weren't forthcoming, which is a perfectly valid defence at law. Remember it is for them to prove their case, not for you to disprove it so the 'burden' will always rest with them. I knew they wouldn't want to because it would show they'd bought the debt for peanuts.
He also explained s74(1)(b) did not exclude the need for any agreement. The DJ said his interpretation was that this section acted as protection for the consumer. As 1st Credit had stepped into Lloyds' shoes, it meant that this prevented Lloyds coming after you if you had paid 1st Credit. In other words, you could not be sued for the same debt by both of them.
The other thing the DJ flagged up was that the Bank statements they provided showed the final entry as a nil balance. Look at your statement to see if this is the case. You have a very good argument for showing there is no claim based on the fact there is no balance owing (I didn't spot that). The guy for 1st Credit couldn't explain it either, which made him look a bigger numpty than he did already. I was squirming in my seat for him! The judge also said the bank statements weren't worth the paper they were written on as they did not have any statement of truth attached to them. His analogy was being phoned up by a PPI company and told you were owed £3,000. He said just because they said that, didn't make it true.
The guy representing 1st Credit kept repeating the same thing like a broken record, which did him no favours. He also turned up with documents on a tablet, which again, DJs are old school, so make sure you bring your file of papers. The guy then said to the DJ he didn't know what was going on because he only had the file that morning. The DJ just sat there rolling his eyes at this stage.
He then asked if I had to say anything. I gave him a brief history that I had lost my job and hadn't been able to find another, and had also had to sell my house to avoid repossession, which is true. I told him that I was probably going to incriminate myself but I felt it was wrong that 1st Credit could buy a debt for next to nothing and try to claim the full amount. He asked how I knew, and I said I didn't because I had asked for the Deed of Assignment and 1st Credit had said they didn't need to provide it. He asked for the copy of the letter I'd sent 1st Credit asking for the Deed, which I showed to him, so bring all the paperwork that's passed between you and them as you may need to refer to it.
He then gave his judgment, and dismissed the claim!! He said they hadn't proved their claim. He mentioned he had dealt with a lot of these claims, which he had just basically had to waved through, but because I had challenged 1st Credit he felt they had not proved their claim. The guy asked for leave to appeal, and the DJ asked him on what grounds, which he couldn't say. He just kept repeating what he'd already said about not having to provide a copy of the Deed of Assignment!
The DJ then refused it on the grounds 1st Credit claim had no reasonable prospect of success. He also awarded me travelling expenses of £8 (petrol and parking) and the maximum allowed of £90, because I told him I run a stall selling Christmas stuff which I had to cancel to attend Court. Make sure you work out how much any wages or earnings you have lost for the day and claim it back. I'm going to up to town today to bank my cheque for £98!
I know I was bricking myself before the hearing, but it's really informal, and if you don't attend they will get a judgment against you by default, which I'm sure they hope will happen. If it goes against you, make an offer to pay in instalments, so at least they won't be hounding you for the whole lot. It will appear on your credit file for six years, if any judgment isn't settled within a month though.
Finally, I'd just like to say, no matter how bleak things seem, just remember they can't kill you. Just stand up to them or if you feel unable to, get help from Citizens Advice or another of the free advice companies. No-one will think badly because you're in debt - we've just been unlucky. Think of all the big hitters, Woolworths, Comet, etc, that have folded so what chance have we got? Remember, fortune does favour the brave.
Have a lovely peaceful New Year, and thanks again to each and every person out there for all your help. I couldn't have done it without you.
xx
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