Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

[Wigglebum]

Hi, I wonder if anyone could help me with a bit of advice and guidance. I've read loads on here and following a Court Claim arriving from Northampton. So I did what I thought I should, I've requested a CCA from the claimant and asked for the documents they refer to in the particulars of the claim from the claimants solicitor under CPR 31.14, but they've written back saying that I'm asking for things that they haven't mentioned (I'm not, I listed tho docs they referred to) and that the original terms and conditions I would have been supplied at the time of the loan application and "they don't see why they should supply it again".

if I'm being really honest I've not dealt with this well at all, I've had loads of differ companies contacting me for this for a couple of years now and I've really stupidly just ignored them as I didn't have any method of paying the arrears. I'm rally concerned that these might be just one of many chasing the same debt and I could end up in a bigger mess than I already am.

Having done lots of reading, I've been through all my paperwork, and I've not had a notice of assignment from the original creditors and what I think was probably the Preaction Letter is really poorly written so I thought it was just another "call us or we might take you to court" threat.

I'm not sure what I should do now or what the process is. The defence need to be in within a few days and I can't accept a debt to someone that I didn't take the debt out with without checking, as I'm really worried that I might get a judgement to these people but actually find there's another chasing the same debt.

Sorry for the long post, but I just don't know where to turn. Should I be seeing a specialist solicitor really as the claim is for over £12k? Any help would be so very much appreciated.

Thank you x

[MissFM]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

Hi Wigglebum, a warm to LB and hang on in there - a fount of wisdom will be along to advise you shortly...aw:

[Wigglebum]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

Thank you xxx it's all making me feel a bit ill! But I guess that's my own fault.....

[MissFM]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

Don't beat yourself up - we've all buried our heads at one time or another :hug:.

It would probably be helpful to those who can advise if you were to post up the relevant documents (with all your personal details removed) x

[Wombats]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

Hi Wigglebum,

A few of us on here have been where you are now so you're far from alone. Please bear in mind it is the weekend and the forum is always quiet then. If you don't get a response tonight, it doesn't mean you won't - the court people will be around tomorrow, fear not.

One thing you can do in the meantime, though I know time is against you, is send a SAR. There is a template here:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ection-Act-%29

For the sake of £10 you'll see their hand if either there is time or if you can get an extension. The bods with the court knowledge will know whether this is possible or not, but the SAR should certainly get you information they are denying you. The original T&C's is part of a CCA request.

My understanding is that until such time as they comply with your CCA request, your debt is unenforceable at law.

When was the loan taken out?
How much was the loan for?
Who is taking you to court?
When were payments last made towards this debt?

[righty]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

They are talking rubbish Claimants, including their lawyers have been warned that they must supply the evidence they intend to rely on. Telling you you must have it may mean they are short in that department themselves. Write back (posting it on here before sending) Telling them they are required to comply with CPR & that failure to do could result in the court imposing a substantial costs penalty.

[Wigglebum]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

Thanks both, I'm failing at editing my details out of the letters at the moment, so will type them out for you if that's ok?

just as background, the loan dates back to 2009 with Lloyds. I'm being taken to court by Marlin Europe II ltd, papers are dated 11/9/14 so I only have until 14th, so the SAR being in time isn't really an option I guess.

i last made a payment in 2011 as I had a major car accident, was on reduced wages, then made redundant twice, but I don't know the exact date I last made a payment, think it was about October 2011. I've not dealt with very well I'm afraid.

the court claim is as follows:
Claimant: Marlin Europe II ltd
Address for sending docs & payments: Restons Solicitors Ltd
Issue Date : 11th September 2014
Defendant: wigglebum
Particulars of claim: The claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the defendant(s) under a contract between the defendant(s) and Lloyds Banking Group dates on or about xx/xx/2009 and assigned to the Claimant on xx/xx/2013 in the sum of 12xxx.xx
Particulars a/c no: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date. Item. Value
xx/xx/2014 Default Balance 12xxx.xx
Post Refrl Cr. Nil

Total: 12xxx.xx

I called them when I received the court forms and they told me just to accept the debt and complete the income and expenditure paperwork with the claim form and return to the court. They also asked me if I was employed and if I had a mortgage if if I rented.

After doing some research on here I followed the advice and sent CCA request to Marlin (no reply yet) and the CPR 31.14 request to Restons. I used the template letter off here and asked for the docs they refer to in their claim, namely 1. Agreement / Contract, 2. Default Notice, 3. Assignment, 4. FormalDemand.

This is what I got back:
Re: Marlin Europe II ltd v yourself
Account Number : xxxxxxxxxx
We acknowledge receipt of your recent request made pursuant with CPR 31.14.

We would point out that the Claim was issued via the County Court Business Centre which is a procedure specifically provided for in CPR. This procedure only allows a Claimant to insert brief details of the Claim and does not allow for the attachment of any enclosures. Paragraph 5.2A of Practice Direction 7E specifically states that "The requirement in paragraph 7.3 of Practice Direction 16 for documents to be attached to the particulars of contract claims does not apply to claims started using online claim form, unless the particulars of claim are served separately in accordance with paragraph 5.2 of this practice direction."

We would also remind you that CPR 31.14 states :
"A party may inspect a document mentioned in -
(a) a statement of case;
(b) a witness statement;
(c) a witness summary, or;
(d) an affidavit"

You would have been provided with a copy of the contractual Terms and Conditions at the time the account was opened and hence we see no reason why you require an additional copy.

Furthermore, the other documents you have requested are not "mentioned" in the Particulars of Claim and therefore CPR 31.14. (1) does not apply.

Although your letter states that you require the requested documents in order to file a defence/counterclaim, we would point out that the Particulars of Claim contains sufficient information in order for you to understand what the Claim relates to, namely;
a) the date the account was opened;
b) the account number;
c) the outstanding balance;
d) the original creditors name; and
e) the fact that the account has been assigned to the Claimant and when it was assigned.

We trust this clarifies matters.
Yours Faithfully
xxxxxxxxx
Trainee Solicitor


Any thoughts on what I can do. Really sorry for the long post, I couldn't upload docs as I don't have a scanner.

[Wigglebum]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

They are talking rubbish Claimants, including their lawyers have been warned that they must supply the evidence they intend to rely on. Telling you you must have it may mean they are short in that department themselves. Write back (posting it on here before sending) Telling them they are required to comply with CPR & that failure to do could result in the court imposing a substantial costs penalty.

Thank you. As time is short, is it acceptable to email it? Although it does say on the bottom of Restons letterhead that they don't accept service of documents or proceedings by fax or email, so I suspect they will just ignore. If I post tomorrow, they will receive Tuesday and I need to file my defence on Wednesday :-$

[righty]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

They are correct Northampton does allow this (upto a point) but since you have made a request under CPR they are required to provide the docs you requested. You have taken advice & been told that they must supply them. Have you put your defence in if not or you have explained to the court that you are unable to plead until the claimants comply with your CPR request then I suggest you write to the court telling them that you are embarrassed & unable to plead as the claimants refuses to comply with your CPR request Include a copy their letter marking it evidence 1

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

Sorry for the long post, but I just don't know where to turn. Should I be seeing a specialist solicitor really as the claim is for over £12k? Any help would be so very much appreciated.

As the claim is over £10k you could do worse than contacting him: http://www.qualitysolicitors.com/how...le/paul-tilley. :yo: He is an LB site team member (PT2537) who works alongside Celestine, one of the forum owners. You could also send him a PM through the forum: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...do=newpm&u=551

One thing you can do in the meantime, though I know time is against you, is send a SAR. There is a template here:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ection-Act-%29

For the sake of £10 you'll see their hand if either there is time or if you can get an extension. The bods with the court knowledge will know whether this is possible or not, but the SAR should certainly get you information they are denying you. The original T&C's is part of a CCA request.

Sadly they are allowed 40 days to comply with a SAR and the maximum extension that can be agreed under CPR15.5 is 28 days. The extension would be because Restons have not complied with the request under CPR 31.14, not because of the SAR. A SAR is a request under the Data Protection Act and not the Civil Procedure Rules. Furthermore, many banks argue they don't keep copies of default notices or notices of assignments so they wouldn't be included with the SAR. What you'd get is primarily statements and screenprints along with internal notes.

Thank you. As time is short, is it acceptable to email it? Although it does say on the bottom of Restons letterhead that they don't accept service of documents or proceedings by fax or email, so I suspect they will just ignore. If I post tomorrow, they will receive Tuesday and I need to file my defence on Wednesday :-$

What I would suggest is chasing them for your CPR request by BOTH fax and phone. You are not serving them with any documents or proceedings, just chasing up your request. As they haven't complied, ask them to agree to an extension of 28 days which is the maximum allowed under CPR 15.5, otherwise you'll have no option but to apply for an unless order. Get them to send you an email with their agreement and forward it to the court. :typing:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

They are correct Northampton does allow this (upto a point) but since you have made a request under CPR they are required to provide the docs you requested. You have taken advice & been told that they must supply them. Have you put your defence in if not or you have explained to the court that you are unable to plead until the claimants comply with your CPR request then I suggest you write to the court telling them that you are embarrassed & unable to plead as the claimants refuses to comply with your CPR request Include a copy their letter marking it evidence 1

Given the value of this claim, I'd say an unless order would be worth applying for, in preference to the embarrassed defence, however, I'd say the first thing to do would be to contact them asking to agree to an extension. You have to show you've taken every possible step to make them comply and they haven't. Also this is fast track so the usual excuse that "Part 31 doesn't apply to small claims and this will be allocated... :blah: :blah: :blah:" won't be an option here. :thumb:

[Wigglebum]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

Thank you so much. I will call the solicitors in the morning and see if I can get them to agree to a 28 day extension, and follow up by email either confirming their acceptance of refusal. Is it ok if I post the outcome on here and them you can advise me of the next steps?

Thank you once again, dreading the phone call tomorrow, but I will do it first thing. Thanks again a million times over.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

Thank you so much. I will call the solicitors in the morning and see if I can get them to agree to a 28 day extension, and follow up by email either confirming their acceptance of refusal. Is it ok if I post the outcome on here and them you can advise me of the next steps?

Thank you once again, dreading the phone call tomorrow, but I will do it first thing. Thanks again a million times over.

Of course, please, do keep us posted! :typing:

Best of luck tomorrow. ray:

[righty]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

I agree with FP (upto a point) An unless order is a good idea except it will cost money to make the application AND time is short, because the OP is a LiP my suggested route will be quicker AND the court may make an order of its own instructing the claimants to comply with the CPR request thereby costing the OP nothing. In addition it puts the evidence of their refusal in front of the court sooner AND it doesn't require a change of court time or date (courts hate moving dates as it mucks their golf dates (only kidding your Honour)

Last but not least when the court is convened, at the original time & date, & the Judge finds they have still not complied they'll be well & truly peed off with them. The Judge may even put themselves on inquiry & agree the claim is TB'd strike them out & award the OP costs

[Wigglebum]

Re: Help needed with CPR 31.14 response

Ok, I've called the solicitors, but the person who is named on the letter isn't available today (they actually see but wouldn't talk to me) so I spoke with what I think was the PA. I explained that they needed to comply with my CPA 31.14 request and asked for an additional 28 days under CPA 15.5. The person said they could not authorise that and asked that I hold the line. They came back and said that the information contained in their reply to my CPA 31.14 request combined with the information on the CC claim form is sufficient for me to submit a defence. They also said that the documents I requested were not relevant to the claim. I'm wondering if it's how I've worded the request?

im just about to ring the court and explain the position. What I'm not sure of now is as I have to submit tomorrow, do I apply for the N244 (I think that's what it's called) and also submit defence saying that is what I've had to do , or do I not submit a defence on the basis that they did not provide the docs I requested.

I've checked my files and I've had 3 other lawyers write to me over this, this last lot sent one letter saying If I didn't respond i would be taken to court, then did. Surely they have to provide some evidence that they own the debt? What would an assignment look like, would it be clear? I do have a letter from Marlin Financial Services which says in bold "notice of change of agent", is transferring to Marlin Europe. Would this be the assignment?

Thank you all for your replies, I am so very grateful for the help you are offering.