What evidence is required/provided?

[Hheyes]

I'm wondering what evidence is usually provided to the Court by a Claimant in the typical situation of a Particulars of Claim reading: 'By an agreement between [name] and the Defendant on or around [date] the Defendant was provided with a credit card... the defendant failed to make the minimum payments due ...the Agreement was assigned to the claimant on [date]... the claimant therefore claims [amount].

It seems that such claims are often issued in hope/expectation that the defendant doesn't know or won't bother to defend and so a default judgment will be gained.

So, where no defence is filed, does the Claimant provide more info ('a bunch of paperwork to back up their claim') to the Court or does the Court simply issue the Judgment?

[wales01man]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

Judgement by default they take it that no defence from Debtor they are accepting its true If you are issued a CCJ form you must defend

[Hheyes]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

Judgement by default they take it that no defence from Debtor they are accepting its true If you are issued a CCJ form you must defend

Blimey! So they really can submit a claim with a very thing PoC and no supporting documents, and then win it on default? Sheesh.

[Amethyst]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

It seems that such claims are often issued in hope/expectation that the defendant doesn't know or won't bother to defend and so a default judgment will be gained.

That is exactly what they are counting on, and get in the vast majority of cases.

[Hheyes]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

That is exactly what they are counting on, and get in the vast majority of cases.

Thanks - it's useful to know and helps me with my own stuff.

[enquirer]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

Strictly speaking, if the claimant offers no evidence at all, the court should consider it a waste of time and simply throw it out. Unfortunately, as Amethyst points out, this is not what usually happens.

If the defendant then fails to respond, it's usually a default judgement - which is ridiculous, given that all they have to do is file a defence saying 'the claim is nonsense, look, they've got absolutely no evidence whatsoever'.

[Hheyes]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

S...given that all they have to do is file a defence saying 'the claim is nonsense, look, they've got absolutely no evidence whatsoever'.

Good point.
I think that's what I'm heading toward with a claim against me.

In expecting what seems to be a variety of common stalling tactics in response to CCA/CPR requests, rather than meekly asking the Claimant/Court for an extension I'm minded to file an appropriately worded defence of something like 'As the Claimant has filed absolutely no evidence whatsoever, and has thus far failed to act in accordance with the provisions of [CCA/whatever] and provide me with information requested of them and to which I'm legally entitled in order that I may appropriately consider/respond, I suggest there is no case to answer and request it be dismissed with prejudice.'

Although I'll not include something like 'in launching the case they should have got their sh*t together beforehand so they can proceed within the specified timeframe, and so I shouldn't have to waste my time/energy any further...' I'll still probably get my ass kicked. ;-) Oh well, won't be the first, nor likely the last, time.

Not being needlessly bolshy... my point is that rather than hope/expect a default judgment they should have provided appropriate supporting information or have it readily accessible, and in the absence of which their claim should fail, so why delay asking for such or making it easier for them by asking for extra time or to inspect info?

After all, these are experienced businesses who know what's required and should thus be held by the Court to that standard rather than continuing to bring what could be considered frivolous (because they expect a high incidence of routine default judgments and thus knowingly don't bother do what should be required) cases.

[stevemLS]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

If there is no defence the default judgment saves everyone time and money.

In exactly the same way, the defendant files their defence without supporting evidence - both sides submit evidence at a later date.

The correct thing to do in default of providing CPR requested documents is to make application for an unless order - saying something like unless the claimant serves the documents on the defendant within 28 days the claim is struck out.

[Amethyst]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

Just to add to Steven's post - this is the basic guidance on filing for an unless order on non compliance with a CPR request - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...order-at-court

[Hheyes]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

...the defendant files their defence without supporting evidence - both sides submit evidence at a later date.
The correct thing to do in default of providing CPR requested documents is to make application for an unless order - saying something like unless the claimant serves the documents on the defendant within 28 days the claim is struck out.

Just to add to Steven's post - this is the basic guidance on filing for an unless order on non compliance with a CPR request - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...order-at-court

Thanks to you both. I now understand the process better, and the 'unless' order appears to be the way to terminate the claim.

Question: Can dismissal be requested as part of a defence? Or is it something you can only hope for?

I'm thinking of the situation where he Claimant hasn't provided you with appropriate supporting evidence and you hope/or it seems likely that they won't/can't supply the Court either, can you simply file a defence of 'Claimant hasn't provided enough evidence to prove, and the claim is legally unenforceable because they haven't complied with CPR/etc' and ask for dismissal?

I'm aware that a stay may be the likely outcome, and/but if the Claimant doesn't already have the paperwork it seems unlikely they'll be able to come up with it later, and so this may be a 'cheap' option. Or am I waaaaaay off here?

[PAWS]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

This is an issue that I have been fighting for a long time.:mad2:I cannot understand how a debtor is the only defendant that can be taken to court without any form of solid evidence what so ever. The claimant should not be entitled to submit any claim to the court unless they have followed correct procedure and produced all the proper, valid documentation This would save time, money and the sanity of many a defendant. Could you imagine, in the criminal justice system, the CPS being able to rock up to the court with nothing more than a name, address and details of an offence and assume that when the summons goes out the alleged perpetrator will buckle and say “it’s afair cop gov; I confess”. Can you imagine what the defence’s free legal rep would say (another thing debtors are not entitled to) when at court the prosecutor simply said “he is guilty because we say he is”
It’s off its head! :der:

[stevemLS]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

But that is exactly how the criminal justice system works, a person is charged and summonsed, no evidence is served at that time, the defendant doesn't even get chance to file their defence, each side present their evidence at trial and there is an exchange of written evidence beforehand.

To the best of my knowledge, you can't make an application within a statement of case (which is what the defence is) so a court will not dismiss on the basis of particulars of claim and the defence. You need to pay the application fee but you also apply for your costs of doing so when the question of costs arises.

[PAWS]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

each side present their evidence at trial and there is an exchange of written evidence beforehand.

That's what I mean. At least evidence is produced at some point!

[stevemLS]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

That's what I mean. At least evidence is produced at some point!

And that's what I mean, evidence must be produced in a civil court at some point and if the matter goes to trial. Not entering a defence is equivalent to pleading guilty

[Hheyes]

Re: What evidence is required/provided?

To the best of my knowledge, you can't make an application within a statement of case (which is what the defence is) so a court will not dismiss on the basis of particulars of claim and the defence. You need to pay the application fee but you also apply for your costs of doing so when the question of costs arises.

Thanks.

Of course, the failing here is entirely mine - in not understanding the process, and thinking that 'when the defence is filed that's it and the case can then be decided'... which, as I now know, of course isn't so.

If I've understood this properly, the procedure is:

1 File a defence... in my case disputing the claim on the grounds that it's legally unenforceable because the Claimant hasn't thus far provided any evidence and failed to comply with legal obligations... etc. (And possibly also that 'although I recall having such a credit card, I can't with certainty be sure and/or these amounts are right and legally enforceable'.)

2 Both parties are then sent a directions questionnaire by the court, to be returned to the court (and apparently failure to comply can result in the case being adjourned or the PoC being struck out), whereupon it'll send Notice of Allocation with the date/time/ location of the hearing and require each party to file with the court and serve on the other party copies of all documents that they intend to rely on at the hearing, at least 14 days before that date. (And if this isn't done, they can only be used with the court's permission).

The kicker here seems to be that cases have to be proved on the 'balance of probabilities', and 'the interests of justice' - rather than absolute evidence. My uninformed view is that in this type of case, unless the defendant has a damn good case, proceedings will favor a claimant.... for instance, it's not acceptable to simply state 'I deny the claim, let the claimant prove it.'

So, initially I can simply file a defence and hope the case isn't proven, and optionally additionally thereafter file an 'unless' request to have it ended.