Debt with a company that's changed it's name

[iwtbdf]

Morning all.

I'm new to this forum, which was recommended to me as I'm after some debt advice.

I've done a search but can't find an answer to the following question, which I hope that I've posted in the right forum.

In 2006 I took out an HP agreement with Company A
Unfortunately, due to redundancy, I defaulted on this agreement in 2008, by which time I had managed to repay more than one third of the total costs of the agreement.

In 2011 Company A changed it's name to Company B (the company registration number is the same)

Is this debt still enforceable, being as I've never had any dealings with Company B and the original signed credit agreement was with Company A?

Thanks in advance for any help and advice over this matter.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

It is possible for the old company to 'assign' the debt to the new company.
In general terms, the new owner of the debt takes over the same rights and responsibilities as the original owner had.

However, if you defaulted in 2008 (depending on when in 2008) the debt may be, what is known as, 'Statute Barred'.
Providing that since the time of receiving the default notice, you have not acknowleged the debt in any way, or made a payment, (of even a penny).

However, if you have acknowledge the debt as your own, or made any payment within the six year time limit.
Then you are still liable for paying the debt.

IHTM28384 - Liabilities: law relating to debts: statute-barred debts

If a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred.
Under the Limitations Act 1980 the time limits are

• in simple contracts, 6 years
• in contracts under seal, 12 years.

If the debtor acknowledges the debt in writing or makes a part payment within the original limitation period, then the time limits start to run again from the date of acknowledgement or the date of payment.
Even though the lender may be barred from pursuing recovery, a debtor may decide to pay the debt after the expiry of the time limits. Because of this you should allow a debt which is otherwise statute-barred if the personal representatives pay the debt and you receive evidence that the payment has been made.
These instructions do not apply to debts in Scotland. Under Scottish law, if a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred under the Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973. (For details of this Act see Gloag and Henderson 12th edition at Chapter4.). These debts are completely extinguished and cannot be enforced. Once the prescriptive period expires the debt cannot be allowed as a deduction.

[iwtbdf]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

Many thanks Johnboy007 for the reply.

How would I know if the old company has 'assigned' the debt to the new company?

I defaulted on the loan in March 2008 and the goods (a car) were re-possessed in April, even though no court order had been obtained (I didn't realise at the time that one was required)
I have made no acknowledgment of the debt, or made any payment, since receiving the default notice.

Since then the old company obtained a charging order against my house in September 2008

The company changed name in August 2011

In July 2013 the new company instructed solicitors to recover the debt.
The solicitors are now taking me to court in an attempt to obtain an order for sale of my house.

I'm looking for advise on how best to proceed and how to defend myself in court.
The last thing I want to happen is to loose my house.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

Hi,
Click on this link for more information about charging orders.
http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...harging-Orders

Amethyst the author of the post will be able to give you much more help on this subject than I can.
Just leave a request in a post on that page and she will answer you.

[pt2537]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

Many thanks Johnboy007 for the reply.

How would I know if the old company has 'assigned' the debt to the new company?

I defaulted on the loan in March 2008 and the goods (a car) were re-possessed in April, even though no court order had been obtained (I didn't realise at the time that one was required)
I have made no acknowledgment of the debt, or made any payment, since receiving the default notice.

Since then the old company obtained a charging order against my house in September 2008

The company changed name in August 2011

In July 2013 the new company instructed solicitors to recover the debt.
The solicitors are now taking me to court in an attempt to obtain an order for sale of my house.

I'm looking for advise on how best to proceed and how to defend myself in court.
The last thing I want to happen is to loose my house.

Ok firstly, the change of name makes little difference in my opinion IF it is merely a rebranding exercise like say Abbey to Santander.

If its an assignment then notice must be given to the debtor in writing if the assignment is to be considered a legal assignment
within the law of property act 1925

If the company has a charging order, then they can ask the court for an order for sale if you havent paid.

[Amethyst]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

Many thanks Johnboy007 for the reply.

How would I know if the old company has 'assigned' the debt to the new company?

I defaulted on the loan in March 2008 and the goods (a car) were re-possessed in April, even though no court order had been obtained (I didn't realise at the time that one was required)
I have made no acknowledgment of the debt, or made any payment, since receiving the default notice.

Since then the old company obtained a charging order against my house in September 2008

The company changed name in August 2011

In July 2013 the new company instructed solicitors to recover the debt.
The solicitors are now taking me to court in an attempt to obtain an order for sale of my house.

I'm looking for advise on how best to proceed and how to defend myself in court.
The last thing I want to happen is to loose my house.

What were the original terms of the charging order?

Have you had any contact with the claimants in between getting the charging order and now, made any payments etc?

Was the company that obtained the charging order the original car finance company?

How much approx is the debt?

And back to the beginning, you defaulted on a hire purchase? restricted use? loan and your car was repossessed.

Was there a shortfall in the amount owing and the sale price of the car?

ie. basically need a lot more info if you want to look at the whole debt.

If not then simply put the simple way to avoid a sale order is to make a reasonable offer of instalment payments while allowing the charging order to continue on your home.

You need to write a witness statement in defence of the sale order application which should state that no instalment payments were ordered (presumably) and that the house is your family home and only residence, in negative equity, jointly owned, and so on as relevant.

[Amethyst]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

Oh yes, and charging order - no limitations - and name change of company irrelevant as it is same company (as PT has said)

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

I defaulted on the loan in March 2008 and the goods (a car) were re-possessed in April, even though no court order had been obtained (I didn't realise at the time that one was required)
I have made no acknowledgment of the debt, or made any payment, since receiving the default notice.

Since then the old company obtained a charging order against my house in September 2008

We seem to be missing a bit here, a CCJ would be required before they could apply for a charging order. :confused2: This means you should have received a court claim, then, if you ignored it, a general notice of judgment, followed by notification from the Land Registry. CCJs and charging orders don't go statute barred.

The company changed name in August 2011

In July 2013 the new company instructed solicitors to recover the debt.
The solicitors are now taking me to court in an attempt to obtain an order for sale of my house.

Have they actually applied for an order for sale or have they just sent you a letter stating their intention to apply for one? Can you scan or take a picture of the letter hoto: remove your personal details and post it up? :typing:

I'm looking for advise on how best to proceed and how to defend myself in court.
The last thing I want to happen is to loose my house.

Take heart, while charging orders are a cinch to obtain orders for sale are hardly ever granted for consumer credit debts below £25k. :thumb:

Most applications for orders for sale (or threats to apply for one) are intended to get people to start making payments towards their CCJs when secured via a charging order and a monthly offer backed up by an I&E statement usually stops further action. :grin:

You may want to look here for further information: https://nedcab.cabmoney.org.uk/chargingorder.asp

Are you the sole owner of the property?

[enquirer]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

In 2011 Company A changed it's name to Company B (the company registration number is the same). Is this debt still enforceable, being as I've never had any dealings with Company B and the original signed credit agreement was with Company A?

It's still the same company.

[iwtbdf]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

If its an assignment then notice must be given to the debtor in writing if the assignment is to be considered a legal assignment

within the law of property act 1925

I have received no such notice in writing from the old or new company.

We seem to be missing a bit here, a CCJ would be required before they could apply for a charging order. This means you should have received a court claim, then, if you ignored it, a general notice of judgment, followed by notification from the Land Registry. CCJs and charging orders don't go statute barred.

All of the above steps have happened.

So the 6 year statute barred rule doesn't apply to a charging order?

Have they actually applied for an order for sale or have they just sent you a letter stating their intention to apply for one? Can you scan or take a picture of the letter remove your personal details and post it up?

The solicitors have applied for an order for sale and the court has given me a date for the hearing.

Take heart, while charging orders are a cinch to obtain orders for sale are hardly ever granted for consumer credit debts below £25k.

This is good to know although knowing my luck I'll be the one where the judge makes the exception.

Most applications for orders for sale (or threats to apply for one) are intended to get people to start making payments towards their CCJs when secured via a charging order and a monthly offer backed up by an I&E statement usually stops further action.

Doing what you suggest will be admitting liability for the debt?

Are you the sole owner of the property?

Yes

What were the original terms of the charging order?

For the Final Charging Order (Nov 2008) the court orders;

1) The charge created by the order (Interim Charging Order) made on 26 Sep 2008 shall continue.

2) The interest of the defendant in the asset described (my house) stand charged with payment of the sum of £7243.35 the amount now owing under a judgement or order given on 6 Aug 2008 together with any further interest becoming due and £101 the costs of the application.

3) The costs are to be added to the judgment debt.

Have you had any contact with the claimants in between getting the charging order and now, made any payments etc?

No

I received a letter from the new company in Aug 2012 acknowledging receipt of a payment of £316. I have never made such a payment.

Was the company that obtained the charging order the original car finance company?

Yes

How much approx is the debt?

£10k including the interest to date.

And back to the beginning, you defaulted on a hire purchase? restricted use? loan and your car was repossessed.

Yes, I defaulted on a HP agreement loan for a car due to being made redundant.

Reading the t & c of the HP agreement, there don't appear to be any restrictions.

At the time of repossession I had managed to repay more than 1/3 of the total amount and I wasn't shown a court order (at this time I didn't realise that one was required)

Was there a shortfall in the amount owing and the sale price of the car?

After the car had been sold at auction (I was told it would be retailed) for £25k there was a shortfall of £7344 which is where this debt stems from. Similar cars were being retailed by dealers for £32k, which is why I have always disputed this debt.

You need to write a witness statement in defence of the sale order application which should state that no instalment payments were ordered (presumably) and that the house is your family home and only residence, in negative equity, jointly owned, and so on as relevant.

In the documentation prepared by the new companies solicitors, the court will be aware that the property is registered in my name only and that there is no negative equity (the solicitors got a local estate agent to do a drive-by valuation). I am currently living in the property with my partner and her daughter.

　

Many thanks to everyone that has gone to the trouble of replying to this thread so far.

Your help and advice on how best I proceed and defend myself in court is very much appreciated.

I cannot afford to pay a solicitor to represent me and I've had no luck in trying to obtain free legal advice from people experienced in such matters (apart from on here). Will it go against me if I represent myself in court?

[Amethyst]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

Was it British Credit Trust ? (the original HP agreement) and are the solicitors Restons?

[pt2537]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

I have received no such notice in writing from the old or new company.



All of the above steps have happened.

So the 6 year statute barred rule doesn't apply to a charging order?



The solicitors have applied for an order for sale and the court has given me a date for the hearing.





This is good to know although knowing my luck I'll be the one where the judge makes the exception.





Doing what you suggest will be admitting liability for the debt?





Yes



For the Final Charging Order (Nov 2008) the court orders;

1) The charge created by the order (Interim Charging Order) made on 26 Sep 2008 shall continue.

2) The interest of the defendant in the asset described (my house) stand charged with payment of the sum of £7243.35 the amount now owing under a judgement or order given on 6 Aug 2008 together with any further interest becoming due and £101 the costs of the application.

3) The costs are to be added to the judgment debt.





No

I received a letter from the new company in Aug 2012 acknowledging receipt of a payment of £316. I have never made such a payment.





Yes





£10k including the interest to date.





Yes, I defaulted on a HP agreement loan for a car due to being made redundant.

Reading the t & c of the HP agreement, there don't appear to be any restrictions.

At the time of repossession I had managed to repay more than 1/3 of the total amount and I wasn't shown a court order (at this time I didn't realise that one was required)





After the car had been sold at auction (I was told it would be retailed) for £25k there was a shortfall of £7344 which is where this debt stems from. Similar cars were being retailed by dealers for £32k, which is why I have always disputed this debt.





In the documentation prepared by the new companies solicitors, the court will be aware that the property is registered in my name only and that there is no negative equity (the solicitors got a local estate agent to do a drive-by valuation). I am currently living in the property with my partner and her daughter.

　

Many thanks to everyone that has gone to the trouble of replying to this thread so far.

Your help and advice on how best I proceed and defend myself in court is very much appreciated.

I cannot afford to pay a solicitor to represent me and I've had no luck in trying to obtain free legal advice from people experienced in such matters (apart from on here). Will it go against me if I represent myself in court?

Youve had a charge since 2008? oh that changes things alot. you would be defeated by delay alone i think here.

Plus limitation stops being an issue once proceedings are issued. So you cannot play on the statute barred point im afraid.

[iwtbdf]

Re: Debt with a company that's changed it's name

Was it British Credit Trust ? (the original HP agreement) and are the solicitors Restons?

The original HP agreement was with DUN_T_N No1 who are now called MON_YBA_N and the solicitors are SHO_SMIT_S