Help with POC

[midnights]

Hi to everyone, I am new here. I am not legally minded and I have had no legal training at all.
My partner has received a claim in th post from MCOL and we are both baffled as to what the claiment is actually claiming as we cannot see anything in the POC that states clearly what it is she has done to the claiment to warrant her to make a claim. I have typed out the POC exactly as it is and as it appears on the N1 document. I have redacted all names.

My partner Xxxxxx Xxxxxx Died 06/05/13 I Paid
the deposit for his funeral #1363 I also paid
#2400 for an engine for his boat back in
March 2011 Communications between Miss Xxxxxx
and myself in past months has been in letter
form but even this stopped after Miss Xxxxxx
asked me for a number of items some of them I
have never seen Others we brought as a couple
and others were presents Some of the items
may have been thrown out when Xxxxxx emptied
the garages at his wife's house we did fill a
skip I also have filled a skip on my drive
way from emptying my shed I have returned
many items of Xxxxxx?x and his fathers I have
also given the family Xxxxxx'x Land rover
XXXXXXand boat named Xxxxxxx I did write to
Miss Xxxxxx to say I would take her to court
if I had no reply and I would start proceedings
on 2^nd June I will write to inform her I am
starting proceeding now

The amount that the claiment is claiming is £3763.00 + £185.00 total £3948.00

I would appriciate peoples views and any advise that can be offered in dealing with this. If I have posted this thread in the wrong section then please let me know.

[Amethyst]

Re: Help with POC

Gosh. Well, there doesn't appear to be a cause of action and its not pleaded sufficiently, could be a simple strike out application to the court in order. However this has a cost attached and it could be reclaimed from the claimant.


The claimant does sound quite distressed and confused. Has your partner received any letters or know who the claimant is at all? Is it a argument about a will / probate ?

[midnights]

Re: Help with POC

Hi Amethyst and thankyou for responding.
The person who died was my partners brother. He was married, but was living with his girlfriend when he died. He did not leave a will. The claim was filled by his girlfriend against my partner. At this early stage I would not want to say what the claim is regarding as I may well just be guessing myself and because people who will read the POC will fill in the gaps in their own minds which will alter their prospective of the POC. As far as I have been able to grasp anyone who reads a POC should be able to understand what the claim is about. As you can see with this POC all you can do at best is to guess.

[Amethyst]

Re: Help with POC

Ahh, difficult.

The claim amount is the funeral deposit and boat engine. Presumably there have been previous discussions about this.

If you apply to strike, she will be able to defend the strike out and may seek help in amending her claim to demonstrate a clear cause of action.

I'll see if anyone responds further over night but as it stands I can't see any accusation to defend.

[Kafka]

Re: Help with POC

Did you receive a formal letter warning of imminent court action if the issue wasn't resolved?
If not that's a breach of the court procedures, so another ground for strike out.

[midnights]

Re: Help with POC

Hi Kafka and thankyou for responding to this thread.
My partner did receive a letter from the claiment which stated:

Dear Xxxxx

Just letting you know that I have filled out the small claims court forms and proceeding are starting.

Yours faithfully

The letter is signed and dated. This letter was received a few days before my partner received the claim. I have written the contents of the claiments letter exactly as it written.
This letter is dated 04/07/14 and is postmarked on the envolope 04/07/14. The claim issue date states that it was issued on 07/07/14.

Below is an exact copy of the claiments statement that the claiment included with this letter.

My partner Xxxxxx Xxxxxx Died 06/05/13. I paid the deposit for his funeral £1363. I also paid £2400 for an engine for his boat back in March 2011. Communication between Miss Xxxxxx and myself in past months has been in letter form, but even this has stopped after Miss Xxxxxx asked me for a number of items, some of them I have never seen. Others we brought as a couple and others were presents. Some of the items may have been thrown out when Xxxxxx emptied the garages at his wife's house we did fill a skip, I also have filled a skip on my drive way from emptying my shed. I have also given the family Xxxxxx'x Land rover reg XXXXXXand boat named Xxxxxxx. I did write to Miss Xxxxxx to say I would take here to court if I had no reply and woulds start proceedings on the 2^nd of June. I will write againin forming her I have started court proceedings.


In this statement the claiment has used puncuations and pound signs.

[stevemLS]

Re: Help with POC

Failure to send a letter before action is frowned upon and may result in a costs sanction but is not itself a ground to strike a claim out, especially with a litigant in person.

I agree with Amethyst, it is hopelessly formulated and not capable of being responded to properly.

It is difficult to offer anything else whilst you are reluctant to disclose the background. We would need to know whether there was any discussion about the funeral costs, whether you are aware of any agreement relating to the boat engine, are you the Administrator of the estate and so on.

[Kafka]

Re: Help with POC

The note you have copied would not seem to class as a formal Letter Before Action, though that appears to be its purpose. A LBA requires a minimum of 14 days to allow response and consideration before a claim is filed, so that plainly doesn't satisfy the legal requirement.

[midnights]

Re: Help with POC

Hi and thankyou to stevemLS and Kafka and Amethyst. When my partners brother died he was living with his girlfriend, he was also married and his wife was his only living spouse. He never made a will so the rules of intestacy applied. His wife did not want his estate so she past his estate to his sister who is my partner. My partner is the representive for his estate. There is no money in his estate, but there is alot of bank debt. The claiment is unable to claim her money from his estate as the estate has no money just debt. In an attempt to get this money she has filed this claim against my partner. The claiment signed the contract with the funeral directors which states on the contract that the claiment is responsible to pay the full ammount. As for the engine the claiment has stated in a letter that she loaned the deceased the money on condition that he would stop paying a direct debit which payed for his wifes sky Tv. He was then to pay the claiment back with the money that was not paying his wifes sky Tv. He never did stop the direct debit and it was still going when he died. This loan was made to him by the claiment sometime back in 2011 and he died on the 06/05/13. She has been asked to return all of his property, but she has not done so.

[midnights]

Re: Help with POC

Hi again, If anyone has anymore advice on this then please do chip in.

[Amethyst]

Re: Help with POC

If she loaned him money and he has other debts she should be treated as any other creditor.

The claim should be against the estate not against your partner.

Was there any discussion between the family and the girlfriend with regards the funeral ?

As the deceased never made a will, then indeed the rules of intestacy do apply. How long had he lived with his girlfriend ? and were there any children in the relationship ?

I agree that you should make a strike out application based on no cause of action and no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

A court may be inclined to exercise its power to strike out the whole or part of a statement of case is where that statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending a claim. Such cases include particulars of claim or a defence which:

does not set out facts indicating what the claim is about;
set out an unwinnable case;
those which are incoherent, vague, obscure and make no sense;
those which contain a coherent set of facts but those facts, even if true, do not disclose any legally recognisable claim against the other party;
is vexatious, scurrilous or obviously ill-founded. In making the assessment, the court will assume that each of the allegations pleaded are true;
advances an improper collateral purpose on the part of the litigant;
amounts to an abuse of process on the part of the litigant.

[midnights]

Re: Help with POC

Hi Amethyst, Thankyou for responding again. Its very nice of you to take an interest and give advice. There was comunications between the family and his girlfriend. He died during some kind of diving test to do with depth. His death was not directly to do with his diving and he was not involved in any kind of accident. His death had alot more to do with him smoking and he was out of the water when he died from a heart attack. He died in Middlesex and it was agreed between his family and his girlfriend to have his body transported upto Sunderland for his funeral as that is were he was born and it is where many of his family still live. His girlfriend paid the funeral directors to have his body transported upto Sunderland. She also attended the funeral in Sunderland. His mother paid all of the outstanding funeral cost which was about £3000. He had no children with either his wife or his girlfriend. He lived with his girlfriend for about four years.

[Amethyst]

Re: Help with POC

Have you made a decision midnights on whether to defend or submit a strike out application?

[midnights]

Re: Help with POC

Hi Amethyst, I have looked at the N244 form and it does not look too user friendly. filling it out looks a bit of a task to say the least. If I fill out an N244 then do I still have to send in my defence within the 14 day or is the defence put on hold until the issues raise in the N244 are dealt with.

[midnights]

Re: Help with POC

Hi Ametheyst, The N244 form asks (What order are you asking the court to make and why). As you have noticed that there does not appear to be a cause of action and its not pleaded sufficiently. What would I put in this box. So far all that I have come up with is:

I ask to have the statement of case struck out as there is no cause of action and its not pleaded sufficiently.
No alligations have been made against me by the claimant at all.
The costs of and consequential to this application to be paid by the claimant in any event.

Im also not sure as to where I need to send the N244 or if that is even the right form to use to have the claim struck out.. The N244 claim form says in The County Court Business Centre and the claim was done on the Money claim on Line website.