HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

**wales01man** · 23rd June 2014, 21:49:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Forget the 3 letters it does not work.
Others on here will give you some good advice please wait its late now but they wont let you down.
Pleas do not worry about the debt your health is more important.

**Amethyst** · 23rd June 2014, 22:05:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Hi,

Firstly, is the claimant aware of your illness and financial situation?
Is the loan a joint loan with your wife?
Do you own your home?

Secondly, could you type out the particulars of claim from the claim form please. And the issue date. And how much the claim is for.
Also can you post a copy of any letters or documents you have sent to the solicitors brining the claim after the claim was issued.

You need to send the CPR 31.14 request to the solicitor as you already have done - if you used a template from goodf could you post a copy of what you sent pls.
Also send a CCA request ... I'll get a link shortly...http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...y-of-Agreement .... that goes to the claimants rather than the solicitor

Have you acknowledged the claim online with intent to defend in full?

What is your priority, financially and stresswise, I'm guessing to get things straight so you can concentrate on more important matters? The court issues could go on for a good few months, and depending on your health situation and financial circumstances you might be best off dealing with this through negotiation, but lets look at the claim and where we're at first.

We'll help you with this all we can, but please forget copyright notices and novations and estoppel.

**Amethyst** · 23rd June 2014, 22:17:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

The two separate claims, is that one for each of you on the same loan or different debts?

Now have had 2 separate N1CPC Claim forms dated 11th June '14

Also can you explain this a bit more please - who are Metro?

Kavanagh sent us a 'statement of arrears notice' on 22nd May '14 on HSBC Headed paper together with FCA info, he signed it as 'Associate General Counsel'. We returned it to him (took a copy first) saying we had no business to conduct with him or HSBC and reminded him that we had an outstanding bill owed by their group member Metro

**Tools** · 23rd June 2014, 22:20:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

For reference http://getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/vi...3#.U6ioCLGTFCc

**Amethyst** · 23rd June 2014, 22:41:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Thanks Tools.

That will be Separate N1CPC's (i.e. they sent one to each of us, I guess because we had a joint a

ccount)

Okay, send both the 31.14 and CCA requests from you both separately each referring to their own claim

**genghis231** · 24th June 2014, 12:13:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Hiya and thanks for your reply.

1. We wrote to the claimant when I was diagnosed. I was actually attacked by burglars breaking into our home prior to being diagnosed, I wasn't expected to get through the night having head trauma, broken bones, over 100 stitches in my face and needing £15k worth of dental care (including bone graphs) which I still haven't had because I have to pay for it myself. My injuries prevented me from working, then when I thought it couldn't get any worse it did, thinking I had a kidney infection and unable to walk by the time I went to hospital, well you know the rest. I was self employed with our 25 year old business and had a an overdraft secured against the family home. While I was in hospital with tubes coming out of me on life support with full barrier nursing the IR wound up our business for Tax we were unable to pay and because I had missed 3 months mortgage payments Mortgage Agency Services Number 5 Limited (MAS) knowing our situation put in a repossession order for our home of 17 years whilst I was in hospital and not expected to survive. Court date was 23rd December 2012. Our son came home from serving with the Army in Afghanistan and used his life savings to pay off the arrears and has been subsidising us as best he can with his military pay ever since, putting us before himself. It's a living nightmare, but....... I am living, I am alive and that is thanks to the NHS and my caring wife alone. I still need ongoing surgery for my injuries but I am unable to have it because of the risk of infection which I may not be able to fight.

2.The loan is joint between my wife of 33 years and I - we met as teenagers on holiday and married having only spent 6 weeks together (not by need to I might add). They said it would never work!!
3 I'm not sure what a CCA request is.
4.Their Solicitor's letter came on HSBC Headed Paper
5. The issue date was 11th June on the paperwork, so 5 days after that makes 16th June
6. The sum was for £10463.82 + court costs of £410 + solicitor's cost of £100 total £10973.82

8. POC -

The Claimant's claim is for the balance outstanding under a loan agreement on, or around 12/01/2010 regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Defendant(s) has/have failed to make payments of arrears of instalments as required by the Statutory Default Notice served by the Claimant dated 4/02/2013. The Claimant formally demanded repayment of the outstanding loan on 11/03/2013 but the Defendant(s) has/have failed to repay the amount due to the Claimant.
AND the Climant claimed:-
1. £10463.82
2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at a rate of 8.000% per annum from the date hereof at a daily rate of £2.29 to the date of Judgement or sooner payment.

9. CPR 30:14 sent yesterday recorded (signed for) below:-

CEO Antonio Simoes
HSBC Bank plc.
8 Canada Square
London
E14 5HQ

CC: Paul Kavanagh (Associate General Council) HSBC Bank plc Litigation Department

23^rd June 2014

Re: HSBC BANK PLC v Case/Claim No

xxxxxxxx

CPR (Civil Procedure Rules) 31.14 Request

Dear CEO Antonio Simoes,

On 16^th June 2014 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court Business Centre (CCBC).

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request to both you HSBC Bank plc and Metropolitan Collection Services Limited (part of the HSBC Group, acting for and on behalf of HSBC Bank plc both as servants, agents and within and under their function within the HSBC Group under the direction of HSBC Bank plc, where my documentation to them and HSBC Bank plc is “Notice to Agent is Notice to Principal. Notice to Principal is Notice to Agent” including but not limited to Notice of Irrevocable Estoppel by Acquiescence binding to all parties within the HSBC Group) for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form for Case Number xxxxxxxxxx mentioned above and on which you rely. That request (1. to 4. below) was ignored.
1. Validation of the debt alleged (the actual accounting);
2. Verification of your claim against me (a sworn affidavit or a hand signed invoice in accordance with The Bills of Exchange Act (1882) );
3. A copy of the contract signed by both parties and therefore binding both parties.
4. Please also provide me with a true and certified copy (NOT photocopy) of the Original Note (Credit Agreement), under penalty of perjury and with unlimited liability and confirm that this Note has never been sold. Please also confirm the name of the individual who is the duly authorised representative from your company/corporation HSBC Bank plc, who has carried out due diligence under The Money Laundering Regulations 2007 and what actions s/he has taken in relation to this account.

Together with signed for proof of delivery, please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of 1. to 4. above and each of the documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:
(i) The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD (Practice Direction) 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.
(ii) The default notice
(iii) The termination notice – formal demand for repayment

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

This letter/notice applies to HSBC Bank plc., all trading names, styles, proxies and third party agents acting on or for HSBC Bank plc., Metropolitan Collection Services Ltd, expressly Central Debt Recovery Unit, Payment Services Bureau and HSBC Group.

Yours sincerely,

By:

The same letter was sent by both my wife and I, and to the CEO and the Solicitor Paul Kavanagh separately (4 letters in total)

10. Yes we did the acknowledgement online last night with our intent to defend in full

11. I think you are right about the copyright notices and Estoppel (the CPR request had our copyright names etc on it though) etc. I was grasping at straws with this approach and if it doesn't work getoughtofdebtfree are being very naughty misleading people who are in a desperate situation, adding further cost and time wasting to their already overwhelming problems.

There is nothing fare about the system, we weren't reckless (like the banks have been) and until circumstances outside our control in our 50's we have always behaved with honour and responsibility. I didn't ask for burglars to break in and kick me within a whisper of my life and I didn't ask to get sick or ever think for one moment that I would. I think that if banks are happy to take a commercial risk to make money that they should have an obligation and responsibility to ensure their clients have adequate life cover and critical illness cover. They are banks, they are the experts and could encapsulate it into their charges, they have a duty of care to us and a commercial risk when they make money out of us. But it is what it is and we have to deal with things as best we can. Would you believe that the life cover I took out in my 20's ends at age 55, this year. You couldn't right this living nightmare.

There is no equity in our home but it is our home (at the moment).

I am grateful to people who don't even know us to try help and if I lear anything from this experience I would like to try do my part to gel other unfortunates.

Thank you Amethyst

**genghis231** · 24th June 2014, 12:20:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Thank you for your reply and kind advice. I suspected they the letters wouldn't work but was clutching at straws and didn't know what else to do. getoutofdebtfree are being naughty misleading desperate people, most of whom did not choose their unforeseen change in circumstance.

I have had a response from Amethyst and have replied with what was asked of me best I can.

Thank you wales01man and take care.

**Amethyst** · 24th June 2014, 12:22:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Thank you, we'll try help all we can with this.

Send two CCA requests - one for each of you, to the creditor. ( http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...y-of-Agreement ) each one will need a £1 postal order or cheque.

These letters ask the creditor to send a copy of your credit agreement and all accompanying terms. They need to supply this to be able to enforce the debt.

You'll most likely be in the fast track as the claim is over £10,000.

The CPR request should only be asking for documents which are mentioned in the claimants statement of case. So if you disregard the rest of the letter

Together with signed for proof of delivery, please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of 1. to 4. above and each of the documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:
(i) The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD (Practice Direction) 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.
(ii) The default notice
(iii) The termination notice – formal demand for repayment

is in there and okay.

I'll be back shortly but be getting on with the CCA letters as they need doing asap.

Deadline for defence is around 12th July.

**Amethyst** · 24th June 2014, 12:28:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Actually, who are the solicitors on the claim form? Is it ' HSBC Bank plc Litigation Department ' ?

Sorry got the POC...thank you xx

8. POC - The Claimant's claim is for the balance outstanding under a loan agreement on, or around 12/01/2010 regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Defendant(s) has/have failed to make payments of arrears of instalments as required by the Statutory Default Notice served by the Claimant dated 4/02/2013. The Claimant formally demanded repayment of the outstanding loan on 11/03/2013 but the Defendant(s) has/have failed to repay the amount due to the Claimant.
AND the Climant claimed:-
1. £10463.82
2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at a rate of 8.000% per annum from the date hereof at a daily rate of £2.29 to the date of Judgement or sooner payment.

**Amethyst** · 24th June 2014, 12:39:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

You've mentioned a couple of times, on here and your GOODF thread, about a bill to Metropolitan Services - could you explain a little what the bill is, the amount, their response, and where they come into the case ? (Basically is there any lasting effect from it or can we just forget about it)

(I know the basics of these kinds of bills being sent so not that fussed about details of why GOODF FMOTL send bills just checking that it won't come back to bite you later)

**genghis231** · 24th June 2014, 13:07:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Hiya again,

We have had two separate sets of paperwork for the same loan, but under the same claim number.

Something I forgot to mention in my last reply. The statutory Default Notice to which the refer dated 4/02/13 has a different value to their claim. It states
Amount owing, including interest and charges up to 3 February 2013: £11,455.08
Less rebate due to you £535.81
Total amount to be repaid as at the above date £10,919.27

Also, on a separate letter also dated 4th Februrary 2013:-

Account details

xxxxxx

I have been unable to pay the £409.11 instalment on your personal loan today, as we were not prepared to agree to any further informal overdraft requests on your current account.

you current account is £4,344.84 in credit. This includes transactions that we are currently processing and which can take 3 - 5 days to show individual transactions on your statement. An example of such transaction is where you have used your debit card to make a purchase at a retail outlet. Your formal overdraft limit is £5000.00I am therefore obliged to send you the enclosed Default Notice in respect of your loan.

If you are having difficulties, please contact us now to discuss the situation.

...... We did contact them by phone and they were very sympathetic as I recall, they said that it would most likely just be passed on to Metropolitan to deal with. At that time we didn't know who Metro were.
Metropolitan Collection Services Limited - on the bottom of their headed paper it says:
Metropolitan Collection Services Limited is a member of HSBC Group and operates an internal Complaints handling procedure.
Below is the letter sent to HSBC by my wife
HSBC Bank Plc
Customer Credit Services
PO Box 449
Salford
Manchester
M5 4WQ

14^th February 2013

Card Account Number

Bank Account Number
Sort Code
Loan Account Number

Dear Sirs,

I write with reference to the above account and our recent conversations with your colleagues in the financial guidance and collection departments together with various debt advice charities, which all under our dire and unfortunate circumstances suggested we write to you with the objective of getting our debt with HSBC written off.

As you know my husband has had an unfortunate diagnosis of cancer and has been unable to work for some time, I am now and have been for a while his full time carer and our only income is now state benefits. We have found ourselves in an impossible position through no fault of our own; we both have enough to deal with as it is without the additional burden of debt. My husband’s future is completely unpredictable, it seems without hope and neither we nor I will ever recover financially from the setback we have found ourselves in and have no prospect or hope of ever being in a position to repay this debt even in part. For this we are both truly sorry, it was never our intention and we would not have ever chosen to be in the position we have found ourselves in.

Please see attached letter from my husband’s GP who has confirmed his condition and long-term prospects.

I await your reply in anticipation and in hope that you will give this matter you favorable consideration.

Yours faithfully,

Mrs
Also for and behalf of Mr.

W received a letter from Metro dated 17th April 2014 saying "we are referring the above account to the litigation department of HSBC Bank plc, who will be contacting you within the next 7 days.

A quick question for you Amethyst. Is there any value in going into an IVA?

Thank you

**genghis231** · 24th June 2014, 18:00:PM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Hiya Amethyst,

I suspect that the bills are a nonsense but the third letter states this:-
I wrote to you on both the 10^th and 20^th January 2014 requesting the following documentation, so that I may settle any financial obligation I might lawfully owe:

1. Validation of the debt (the actual accounting);
2. Verification of your claim against me (a sworn affidavit or a hand signed invoice in accordance with The Bills of Exchange Act (1882) );
3. A copy of the contract signed by both parties and therefore binding both parties.
4. Please also provide me with a true and certified copy (NOT photocopy) of the Original Note (Credit Agreement), under penalty of perjury and with unlimited liability and confirm that this Note, has never been sold. Please also confirm the name of the individual who is the duly authorised representative from your company, who has carried out due diligence under The Money Laundering Regulations 2007 and what actions s/he has taken in relation to this account.

As you have failed to provide the aforementioned documentation to validate your claim, I hereby give you ten (10) days to reply to this notice from the above date with a notice sent using recorded post and signed under full commercial liability and penalties of perjury, assuring and promising me that all of the replies and details given to the above requests are true and without deception, fraud or mischief. Your said failure to provide the aforementioned documentation within ten (10) days, from the above date, to validate the debt, has now constituted your agreement to the following terms:

1. That the debt did not exist in the first place;

OR
2. It has already been paid in full;
AND
3. That any damages I suffer, you will be held culpable;
4. That any negative remarks made to a credit reference agency will be removed;
5. You will no longer pursue this matter any further.
6. You have not proven any debt, if you sell the alleged liability pass it back to your client and/or appoint an agent to act on its/your behalf on this matter you will have broken our agreement and you agree to pay the following fee schedule £32 000.00 for dishonouring our agreement, £1,000.00 per hour or part of it or Authorised Representatives time nunc pro tunc, £1,000.00 per recorded delivery or any other response nunc pro tunc and £1,000,000.00 ONE MILLION POUNDS per unauthorised use of my © or ™ nunc pro tunc any further contact is not now necessary, if however you deem a need to contact me by any method the fee is £100.00 per item payable in advance, place the cheque in the envelope; if no payment is made in advance the fee will rise to £1000.00 per item and you will also be held culpable for any cost incurred while recovering the debt you owe.

This letter/ notice applies to all trading names, styles, proxies and third party agents acting on or for Metropolitan Collection services Ltd, expressly Central Debt Recovery Unit, Payment Services Bureau and HSBC Group.

Yours sincerely,
By:

So if they contact you again, in accordance with the paragraph 6 above you send them a bill (the bill template is on their site) with the silly figures. 30 days after the 3rd letter you send them the Estopple. I guess all of it just annoys them and even if it is lawfully binding it isn't playing by court rules so they (the court) and as has happened also banks like HSBC will ignore it.

Amethyst you mentioned in an earlier thread 'dealing with through negotiation'. What sort of negotiation are you thinking about Amethyst? I think (personally) that 2 world wars and countless other conflicts should have been resolved without a drop of blood spilt before it got to war. Negotiation always sounds good to me, most people are reasonable and can be reasoned with. Nobody in their right mind should want conflict if it can be avoided.

Genghis

**genghis231** · 25th June 2014, 08:53:AM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Good morning Amethyst,

The two CCA requests are typed up and ready to go into today's post. Thank you for the advice.

kk

**Amethyst** · 25th June 2014, 09:32:AM

Re: HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!

Excellent. And thank you for posting up all the relevant info yesterday, it's really helpful.

HSBC CCBC Claim - CPR 30.14 - help needed!