Court case VS Anglian Windows

[Montysaurus]

Good afternoon guys, I'm a new user and hoped to pick your brains on an issue that is destroying out lives :-(

We signed a contract with Anglian Windows to fit a conservatory. Although there were several cheaper local building firms that quoted, we went for peace of mind of a large company - Anglian. How wrong we were.

They started the work on October 2012. 3 sub contractors - which we weren't expecting. Long story short, they laid the damp course proofing below ground, air bricks below ground, laid bricks in minus conditions so they crumbled, tried to add on costs sue to unforseen issues which should have been forseen by the Surveyor. The building cost was £27,888. They tried to get an extra £2,000 for a drainage issue which we refuted. They then dropped to £1,500 before asking for £700! When we still said no, they asked "how much we could afford"! "Nothing" was our reply.

Eventually I called the site Supervisor to site and asked him about the defects on the building. He lied to my face and said its normal to lay DCP below ground these days and lay bricks in minus conditions. I then call the area Manager who told me the SAME lies. Luckily, I had an interior builder in who just exposed his lies in front of him and he admitted it was all wrong. I kicked them off site as we lost confidence in them. (there were numerous other defects).

We then had a meeting with the Regional Sales Manager and Area Manager (the Supervisor didn't show for the meeting). We went some way to being convinced to restart work again. They promised no hassle, no time limits and we can think about what to do. I acknowledge here they offered to put it all right. The next day we started getting texts and phone calls with offers of knocking £1,000 off the price, then final offer £1,500 but we had to say yes by midday the next day! We said no as they were pressuring. Then they offered £1,600 and we had to sign a new contract within the next couple of days. We didn't even respond to this.

We took legal advice as they were threatening us with Court for breach of contract. We were going to claim against them also but they beat us to the punch so we have to defend the claim of breach of contract.

They are claiming £18,000 as they made the glass and fittings. We have had a pre court hearing and if we lose we have to pay £25,000 for each sides legal bills, plus the £18,000 they are taking us for, so £78,000 fo fight an £18,000 case.

Our Solicitor fees are currently approx £7,000 and rising.

We are locked in a contract but surely common sense applies here? I realise they offered to put it right, but they have admitted poor workmanship, negligence and lying to name but a few.

Any ideas where we stand please? This is getting on top of us as we are living in a half destroyed kitchen for 18 months. My Wife and I are being destroyed by this horrible company.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help.....

[pt2537]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

Good afternoon guys, I'm a new user and hoped to pick your brains on an issue that is destroying out lives :-(

We signed a contract with Anglian Windows to fit a conservatory. Although there were several cheaper local building firms that quoted, we went for peace of mind of a large company - Anglian. How wrong we were.

They started the work on October 2012. 3 sub contractors - which we weren't expecting. Long story short, they laid the damp course proofing below ground, air bricks below ground, laid bricks in minus conditions so they crumbled, tried to add on costs sue to unforseen issues which should have been forseen by the Surveyor. The building cost was £27,888. They tried to get an extra £2,000 for a drainage issue which we refuted. They then dropped to £1,500 before asking for £700! When we still said no, they asked "how much we could afford"! "Nothing" was our reply.

Eventually I called the site Supervisor to site and asked him about the defects on the building. He lied to my face and said its normal to lay DCP below ground these days and lay bricks in minus conditions. I then call the area Manager who told me the SAME lies. Luckily, I had an interior builder in who just exposed his lies in front of him and he admitted it was all wrong. I kicked them off site as we lost confidence in them. (there were numerous other defects).

We then had a meeting with the Regional Sales Manager and Area Manager (the Supervisor didn't show for the meeting). We went some way to being convinced to restart work again. They promised no hassle, no time limits and we can think about what to do. I acknowledge here they offered to put it all right. The next day we started getting texts and phone calls with offers of knocking £1,000 off the price, then final offer £1,500 but we had to say yes by midday the next day! We said no as they were pressuring. Then they offered £1,600 and we had to sign a new contract within the next couple of days. We didn't even respond to this.

We took legal advice as they were threatening us with Court for breach of contract. We were going to claim against them also but they beat us to the punch so we have to defend the claim of breach of contract.

They are claiming £18,000 as they made the glass and fittings. We have had a pre court hearing and if we lose we have to pay £25,000 for each sides legal bills, plus the £18,000 they are taking us for, so £78,000 fo fight an £18,000 case.

Our Solicitor fees are currently approx £7,000 and rising.

We are locked in a contract but surely common sense applies here? I realise they offered to put it right, but they have admitted poor workmanship, negligence and lying to name but a few.

Any ideas where we stand please? This is getting on top of us as we are living in a half destroyed kitchen for 18 months. My Wife and I are being destroyed by this horrible company.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help.....

Wow your solicitors fees are £7k? is this involving counsel too?

Secondly, why didnt you pursue the Counterclaim against them for breach of contract or possibly breach of their duty under the supply of goods and services act etc?

[Montysaurus]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

Sorry, we have counter claimed too. That's including a Barristers review of the case. Small fry though to what it's going to cost.

[MissFM]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

Hi Montysaurus

I was going to post more or less exactly what PT has posted above (nb: unlike me, PT has the merit of legal qualifications).

It's clear from what you say above that Anglian have breached their contract with you and hard to see that they have a leg to stand on - if it were me I would counterclaim vigorously, including for damages and costs.

It is very hard indeed to see where these astronomical legal fees are justified. :tinysmile_aha_t:

However, if you have such a highly qualified legal team and you trust them obviously you might be wise to heed their advice.

[Montysaurus]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

I know - the fees are spiralling out of control. Anglian claim they are entitled to mess up and are entitled to put it right. That seems ridiculous. We were sure we would win but after the costs were set at 50K legal bills plus the 18k, it makes you think. We were warned they would take it as far as they could to get us to run out of money to fight them. It's a nightmare
We are considering mediation now although we really haven't done anything wrong except employ these lying cowboys to do a job

[MissFM]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

Who has set the legal fees at 50K?

Of course, the huge costs to you would only apply if they won in court.

A lot depends on how confident you are that you have evidence for all that they have done (or not done) in breach of their contract with you.

Have you put it all down on a factual timeline yet?

Would you consider allowing them to complete the work and are you satisfied with the units they've produced (the 18K worth)? I'm also wondering if you could agree to someone reputable that you trust doing the make-ready and using their units to finish?

Often conservatory (and other modular building) companies do contract out to cheap (eg Eastern European) teams who are not overly conversant with building regs in this country.

Just a personal opinion, but I think they will try to bamboozle you and you need to be very focused and strong. You need to think what, in practical terms, you ideally want to happen now and put that forward.

[Montysaurus]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

All we wanted was for both parties to walk away and we use someone else but they won't have that. They think it's ok to try to ruin your home then only offer to do the proper job once you catch them out with their lies. The judge at Tunbridge Wells Court set the fees at 50k. Seems extreme to say the least. Could well lose our home over a conservatory - mental!

[MissFM]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

I agree with you that it sounds utterly bizarre.

Could you tell us more about what happened in court?

[teaboy2]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

Subbing out of intrigue, will help where, and if, needed too.

[pt2537]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

must be a multi track case with costs budgets. Thats all i can think of.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

Multitrack for an £18k claim ?

How much is your counterclaim for ? (putting right the poor work and refund of monies paid?)

[Montysaurus]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

Yes, Amethyst, that's correct. We have a quote for 10k to put work back to how it was plus our £2,500 ish deposit.

[mo786]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

What are your solicitors saying?

It should be pretty straight forward - under the Supply of Good and Services Act 1982 if work not carried out with reasonmable care and skill thry are in breach of cotnract - yes you shoudl give them a chance to put right but if it was a disaster and they lied then you are not absolutley forced to. You would argue you 'lost faith' in their ability to do the work.

[Montysaurus]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

Thanks - this site is very reassuring. We are on the verge of caving in due to the expense, although I don't think it's an option now as we have to defend it because they are taking us to court and we are couter claiming. We are having major doubts as they must be confident to launch a court case against us. We are convinced we are in the right but the doubts creep in when we stand to lost 75k! What a horrible, bullying company these are.

Solicitor says we are right, as did the Barrister who reviewed our case.

[teaboy2]

Re: Court case VS Anglian Windows

Thanks - this site is very reassuring. We are on the verge of caving in due to the expense, although I don't think it's an option now as we have to defend it because they are taking us to court and we are couter claiming. We are having major doubts as they must be confident to launch a court case against us. We are convinced we are in the right but the doubts creep in when we stand to lost 75k! What a horrible, bullying company these are.

Solicitor says we are right, as did the Barrister who reviewed our case.

Don't let the doubts get the better of you. What the site manager or surveyor of Anglicans told you is likely to be different to what they told Anglican. In other words, they are not going to admit to their bosses that they lied to you. Your job in your defense and counter claim is to show that they did lie by backing it up with evidence, such as verified by 3rd party builder etc or the witness (Witness statement) you said that was there when they lied to you etc.

That then makes it Anglicans legal teams job to prove that they didn't lie, and that your witnesses are lying, which would be very difficult if not impossible to prove, considering they stand to gain from winning. Where as you stand to gain nothing from winning, other then being returned to the same financial place you were at prior to signing the contract (as though the contract never existed) - And of course having the land returned to the state it was in prior to work starting.

Basically the onus of proof is on Anglican, they have to prove they didn't lie, whilst at the same time prove that you and your witnesses and the physical evidence its self is lying.

By the way, do you have photographic evidence of the work done etc?

If your solicitor and barrister says you are right - Then your very likely to be right, otherwise they would advise you (in order to avoid further expense) to pay up and learn from it. But they haven't so you have a strong case. Also remember that Anglican's legal team, will base their case on what the site manager surveyor have said, and as said above, they won't risk their jobs by lying to their bosses and admitting they lied to you. So anglican don't believe what you said happened, because the site manager and surveyor have denied it to them, and thats likely why they are so confident to go ahead with the claim. They are likley very over confident, like most big companies are (where money is no object) in court cases. They may even be hoping that taking you down Muti Track where legal costs price most out of the justice system, that you will settle out of court. As it gets closer court, they will start getting worried and may offer you a settlement rather than risk losing in court!