County court papers received out of blue from lowell

[Amethyst]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

Right Mrs. I do not want you to get this CCJ, you have too many good things going on in your life and have worked too damn hard to let this 6 year old cock up with a piddly credit card muck things up. Have a look at Dizzy's thread - she's just looking at entering into a Tomlin agreement to stop getting a CCJ and making £20 a month payments on the debt (£2500).

I really do think you should swallow your pride and try and negotiate with the claimants as your case isn't particularly strong especially for a litigant in person.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding bossy or speaking out of turn but it's only because I give a toss xx

Dizzys thread - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...207#post442207 - tomlin is on last but one post (well unless someone else posts)

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

You know far more than i on this legal stuff so will certainly do as you think is best x

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

Can i negotiate a much lower figure based on them being utterly shit, and not playing ball etc. plus they have till 4pm tomorrow to pay my expenses.....i wont hold my breathe

[Amethyst]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

Sorry Scigal, I know it feels like backing down a bit. Wait till they pay your expenses, then callto acknowledge receipt,,,, it's a decent opener to the conversation. Ask if you can have a conversation with them without prejudice, and I'd go along the 'busy at work / no time off to deal with this further' line 'despite being errors with their documents and no default notice', did they want to save time and costs by negotiating a Tomlin order for settlement at a sensible discount. Sort out your IE so you don't get bullied into anything you can't afford - try get the amount down to what you feel it should be (which I think was about £600?) and play it by ear...

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

Thanks hun. What if they dont send a payment? Can we use that against them?

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

What a surprise, yet again they have stuck two fingers up to the judges orders. No expenses have been reimbursed. The deadline was 4pm

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

Hi all,

nothing going on, not heard about a new date yet. But i do have bank statements that show those two silly little payments are fictional. I will order the 2007 statement too. Xx

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

helo all, hope everyone is tip top.

its been quiet here but now my skelly is due. im in court on friday.

i was just updating it to reflect the claimant had failed yet again to follow the judges orders in that i didnt recieve the expenses etc

and i just looked closeloy at the payment evidence and realised that its already statuted barred.

the CCA was signed 6\12\2001..and the first payment shown on the evidence is 9\1\2007. 6 years, 1 month and 3 days. so to me that is statute barred and they should not have pursued payment, and after that time it does not unbar. no wonder they didnt give the evidence until the day before, they must have realised the cock up and didnt want me to see it!! same for the CCA

is this right??

can you help me to write this in to the skelly please?

xx

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

ah hang on. the statement says 28/12/2006 a payment was received. which is just inside the stat barred time. shit

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

however 6/12/01 - 28/12/06 is still over 6 yrs isnt it?? so it IS stat barred??

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

********, its 5 yrs

[Kati]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

Elapsed time from 6/12/2001 to 4/1/2007 is 5 years 0 months and 29 days

using this: http://www.mathcats.com/explore/elapsedtime.html

:tinysmile_cry_t:

[Amethyst]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

If, say, you signed the CCA in Jan 2001 and didn't make ANY payment or acknowledgement until Dec 2007 then it would be statute barred but it would literally have to be you got the credit card, spent say £500 then cut the card up and never paid a bean or spoke to them ever again about it, which I suppose isn't beyond the realms of possibility but seems unlikely.

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

i was so excited for a moment

[Scigal]

Re: County court papers received out of blue from lowell

this is what I have, which is the same as we entered last time. Id like to update it to add the lack of following orders again. and that the original court paper wasnt signed in the true hand of the solicitor, also that the last 2 payments are a lie, and this must cast doubt over it all, and the CCA looks new and updated because of the increased fees. the statement shows £12 but the enclosed copy shows £15.

im desperate

Nature of Case/Background


1) This is a dispute with regards to a credit card account regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 “CCA act 1974”. The case has already called at court for trial on 30th May 2014 before Judge X who ordered that a skeleton argument was entered by the defendant after he told the agent for the claimant “tell XX that he was very, very lucky to be allowed to continue.” after the claimant had not complied with the courts order dated 11th March 2014.

2)The defendant had requested a copy of the executed agreement pursuant to the cca act 1974 s 78 on May 2008, April 5th 2010, (non compliance letter September 2010), & 2013. The defendant argues that this request remains unfulfilled and the alleged debt is therefore unenforcable.


3) The claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984.


4) The claimant has signed the claim form as “Drydens Limited t/a drysdensfairfax solicitors.


5) The defendant has claimed in the defence that the claim is statute barred pursuant to section 5 of the limitations act 1980.


6) The defendant states that no letter before actions has been provided.

Points of Law


7) CCA act 1974 s78
78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement
(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,— (a) the state of the account, and
(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and
(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.
(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)(c), he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.
(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—
(a) showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and
(b) where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.
(5)A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.
(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

8) The county courts act 1984 s74
74 Interest on judgment debts etc.
(1) The Lord Chancellor may by order made with the concurrence of the Treasury provide
that any sums to which this subsection applies shall carry interest at such rate and
between such times as may be prescribed by the order.
(2) The sums to which subsection (1) applies are—
(a) sums payable under judgments or orders given or made in a county court,
including sums payable by instalments; and
(b) sums which by virtue of any enactment are, if the county court so orders,
recoverable as if payable under an order of that court, and in respect of which
the county court has so ordered.
(3) The payment of interest due under subsection (1) shall be enforceable as a sum payable
under the judgment or order.
(4) The power conferred by subsection (1) includes power—
(a) to specify the descriptions of judgment or order in respect of which interest
shall be payable;
(b) to provide that interest shall be payable only on sums exceeding a specified
amount;
(c) to make provision for the manner in which and the periods by reference to
which the interest is to be calculated and paid;
(d) to provide that any enactment shall or shall not apply in relation to interest
payable under subsection (1) or shall apply to it with such modifications as
may be specified in the order; and

(e) to make such incidental or supplementary provisions as the Lord Chancellor
considers appropriate.
(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4), an order under subsection (1)
may provide that the rate of interest shall be the rate specified in section 17 of the
Judgments Act 1838 as that enactment has effect from time to time.
[(5A) The power conferred by subsection (1) includes power to make provision enabling
a county court to order that the rate of interest applicable to a sum expressed in a
currency other than sterling shall be such rate as the court thinks fit (instead of the
rate otherwise applicable).]
(6) The power to make an order under subsection (1) shall be exercisable by statutory
instrument subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of
Parliament.
9) The county courts (interest on judgement debts) order 1991





The general rule


2. (1) Subject to the following provisions of this Order, every judgment debt under a relevant
judgment shall, to the extent that it remains unsatisfied, carry interest under this Order from the date on which the relevant judgment was given.

(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment—

(a) is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the
Consumer Credit Act 1974

10) Limitations act 1980
Actions founded on simple contract

5 Time limit for actions founded on simple contract.
An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six
years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.

11) The defendant relies on the pre action protocols for the lack of a letter before claim


12) The defendant relies on CPR 16 PD 16 CPR 22 PD 22 and PD 7E for the incorrect statement of truth and the consequences thereof.

Submissions of Fact

13) The defendant has made no payments within the last 6 years. It is noted that the statements adduced by Mr X indicate otherwise but the defendant denies making these payments. The defendant notes that the payments made much earlier indicate method of payment but these latest payments do not indicate a method of payment. Evidence is provided in the case of the last two alleged payments in the form of bank statements.

14) The defendant had requested a copy of the executed agreement pursuant to the cca act 1974 s 78 on May 2008, April 5th 2010, (non-compliance letter September 2010), & 2013. The claimant contends that this was complied with in the witness statement of Mr X 2014. The copies adduced by Mr X are not “easily legible” and a signed statement was not together with the copy in any event. Hfo Capital Limited v Dennis Robinson which also further states that a copy for another purpose other than S78 is not a copy for S78. Cabot v Bachellier states a copy must be easily legible.

15) The Claimants attempts at claiming post judgement interest are an attempt at unjust enrichment. The Defendant refers to s74 County Courts Act 1984 and section 2 of the County Courts (Interest on Judgement Debts) Order 1991 as a statutory bar on the Claimants claim to interest. Furthermore no contract entitling the Claimant to post judgement interest has been adduced in evidence and accordingly there is no entitlement to post judgement interest.

16) A Statement of case with no statement of truth cannot be relied upon as evidence. CPR 22.
17) The claimant has never served a compliant Letter Before Action.


Summary

18) The claimants claim must fail due to The Limitations Act section 5 as no payments or acknowledgement have been made within 6 years. Alternatively CCA act 1974 s 78 (6) is a bar to enforcement and if the court is still not with me the claim should be reduced as the claimant is not entitled to the interest they seek.


19) The claimants should be penalised in costs for not following the pre action protocols and general unreasonable behaviour including seeking interest when they know they shouldn't, not complying with court orders as well as not following general civil procedure rules.


Skeleton Argument prepared by Me acting as a litigant-in-person
Dated this 5th day of September 2014

Reading List (previously provided in hard copy)
1) Consumer Credit Act 1974
2)County Courts act 1984
3) Limitation Act 1980
4)The county courts (interest on judgement debts) order 1991
5)Civil Procedure Rules
6) Hfo Capital Limited v Dennis Robinson
7) Cabot v Bachellier