cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQUEST

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Ive left no4..... think your gonna say remove it anyway:wub:....... but:tinysmile_twink_t2: they have quoted an account number that means nothing to me and not on the original CCA or any other letters etc from the bank over the years, or is it standard practice they give it a new number when they purchase it and the court will except it, just not having any contact from them i have no idea if that is what's happened.

Thanks for any input

[FlamingParrot]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Ive left no4..... think your gonna say remove it anyway:wub:....... but:tinysmile_twink_t2: they have quoted an account number that means nothing to me and not on the original CCA or any other letters etc from the bank over the years, or is it standard practice they give it a new number when they purchase it and the court will except it, just not having any contact from them i have no idea if that is what's happened.

Thanks for any input

Sometimes accounts are assigned new numbers when they are bought by debt purchasers. But I know of a case where the account number quoted on the claim was disputed. I'll send PT2537 a PM asking him to look at this, because it was him who looked at that claim on another site.

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Thanks FP,,,,,, PT2537 helped me greatly, bless him when we beat next......... a very very helpful and patient (in my cas lol) guy.

It would say to me if thats the acc number they are taking me to court over it MUST be relevant to the original or it has no connection/meaning to me. but we know how the law can see something very simple and make a meal out of it. especially as CQhave not contacted me to at least say this is the new number and it relates to your old account number; xyz22.

Do you think the rest is ok as id like to send it sooner than later, but not so soon as i shoot myself in the foot.

Thank you for your replies i really do appreciate it

[FlamingParrot]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Thanks FP,,,,,, PT2537 helped me greatly, bless him when we beat next......... a very very helpful and patient (in my cas lol) guy.

It would say to me if thats the acc number they are taking me to court over it MUST be relevant to the original or it has no connection/meaning to me. but we know how the law can see something very simple and make a meal out of it. especially as CQ have not contacted me to at least say this is the new number and it relates to your old account number; xyz22.

Excellent! :whoo:

Do you think the rest is ok as id like to send it sooner than later, but not so soon as i shoot myself in the foot.

Thank you for your replies i really do appreciate it

The CPR request letter is fairly standard, however, I'm not sure about the paragraphs ABOVE that, a CPR 31.14 letter is merely a request for documents mentioned on the particulars of claim, not an opportunity to argue your case. :confused2:

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Hi Fp, please let me know if you think i should remove this from the cpr,
but i think being as i am not a solicitor and the fact i have never ever heard of or had contact form QC, it is a normal thing to do, for a lay person,,,i feel that even though it may not be the correct procedure and im not arguing my case, im simply saying to them who the hell are you?!...... and at the same time letting them know i have records and am awaiting my compliant CCA still so how can you have it/them to proceed correctly.......... i have added bits to letters like this before and as its at the magistrates, they have seen it in the past as someone genuinly trying to be honest for want of a way of putting it, im not trained in law and as im not asking or demanding anything just stating i know nothing of them.:noidea:

[Gorang]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Personally I would ONLY send this

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1.The Agreement. (Para, point 1 of your PoC) Together with the relevant terms associated with that account at the time of its inception, you will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.
2.The notice of assignment and proof of delivery (Para, point 3 of your PoC).
3.The default notice (Para, point 2 of your PoC).
4.The document that bears the Account number you have listed (Para, point 1 of your PoC)



Although your claim is for a sum which does not exceed £10,000.00 and thus in all likelihood it will be allocated to the small claims track once I deliver my defence, however as I am unable to lodge my defence at this moment, the case has not been allocated to a track for determination upon delivering a defence, as a consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) have no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within seven (7) days of receiving this letter.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing as a result to a modification, obliteration or other marking, or feature, each version thus will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any, and all version(s) and include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) that are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you within the next seven (7) days.

Yours faithfully

Sorry to be blunt here but I personally would

Stick to and address the actual FACTS as is on PAPER they have sent you.

Don't say to them or the court, what you think it is for or what you think is going on, as it is up to THEM to prove to you and the court what is actually going on and what its for.

MAKE them prove to you and the court that you owe this money and that they have done everything correctly to be entitled to get this money from you.

Its them that brought this claim, so its up to them to prove that it is a genuine and legit claim.

So DON'T supply them with ammo that they can use against you, ONLY address the FACTS hat they put down on paper.

Another thing to remember is a court will ONLY deal with claimants/defendants provable FACTS and the LAW, not opinions.

Remember you WILL have plenty of time to put together your defence, and if they don't supply you with the info that you need to defend yourself in court, the judge WILL see that and ALLOW you time to compile a proper defence ONCE they have supplied you (and the court) with the relevant documentation that is required for you to defend their accusations

Sorry to be so blunt

[FlamingParrot]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Personally I would ONLY send this
[standard CPR letter quoted here]

I agree 100%, that's why I said the following:

The CPR request letter is fairly standard, however, I'm not sure about the paragraphs ABOVE that, a CPR 31.14 letter is merely a request for documents mentioned on the particulars of claim, not an opportunity to argue your case. :confused2:

It doesn't do any favours to be seen to be on a 'fishing expedition'. The CPR letter is just a request for documents, not a full defence.

[littlebert8]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Agreed, only send the standard CPR request at this stage. To be blunt, the original letter wouldn't do you any favors. Send the CPR 31.14, but chase it up by phone - don't let them ignore it while you run out of time

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Thanks guys, no offence taken at all, i only thought it ok as its to the sols and not court but i see your point about giving them ammo and them having to prove it......... off to edit down a CPR request :tinysmile_twink_t2:.

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Hello again, well i took your kind advise and only sent the CPR31.14 to CQ's solicitors last thursday, and they signed for it.

So we called them today. with the recorder going, first off i get an office girl saying that ive rung the wrong office, but i rang the number they gave for their bradford office on the claim form, i was told it is leeds office dealing with it ???, and put me through to them,,,, i then get an office boy who said there isnt anyone as such that deals with the claim, its dealt with by a 'department as such'..... i said id like to ask somebody a few questions in regards to when they think they may respond. after being on hold for a fair while i get a mature guy who said he will have to ask their client for the paperwork as they dont have any of it, to which i said, oh i see so you dont have any of the doc's in your possession stated on the claim form, he said, no ill get them sent over from our client, so i said, then you cannot of complied with pre action protocols or CPRules in that case, he said no no we dont need to and there is no requirement to :tinysmile_aha_t: and he would put the file on hold and wont send a request for judgement until they receive the documents back from their client CQ etc and we wont have to do anything until they write to us and we wont have to file an immediate response.
he also said the default date was served mid 2007, i left it there.

Now can i ask about statute barred, i have not asked before bacause at one point when i was writing to lloyds (2009) regarding this and a bank loan lloyds starting replying in one letter in regards to both of my independently sent letters and CCA requests etc making things like working dates out a bit of a gamble.
Now the reason i ask about this now is as he stated to me today the default judgment was made mid 2007, but i have a debt collectors letter here, dated dec 2007 where i have written on it that i paid them £5 feb 08 and april 08, does this mean that the default stays... i know its meant to start the clock ticking on the SB side of things so i have been thinking im stuffed........... is it worth me 'chancing my arm' at the possability its SB'd ?? as im not sure if they will have a record of me paying on those dates because of him stating today the default date.

off to do some reading on this.

i would be really grateful of a few comments on todays call above.

thanks guys

[Gorang]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

So we called them today. with the recorder going,

Did you tell each of them that the call was being recorded???

If you didn't then I suspect a judge will NOT allow you to use that recording as evidence, as I am fairly sure that they need to be made aware that the call is being recorded FIRST

If you did make them aware that the call was being recorded, did you get their names and positions held from them, and did they ask for a copy of the recording

Statute barred will go from the date you made your last payment to the account or the date you last admitted to them (usually in writing) that you owe the money to them

i get a mature guy who said he will have to ask their client for the paperwork as they dont have any of it, to which i said, oh i see so you dont have any of the doc's in your possession stated on the claim form, he said, no ill get them sent over from our client, so i said, then you cannot of complied with pre action protocols or CPRules in that case, he said no no we dont need to and there is no requirement to and he would put the file on hold and wont send a request for judgement until they receive the documents back from their client CQ etc and we wont have to do anything until they write to us and we wont have to file an immediate response.

I hope you asked him to confirm all this in writing to you

[FlamingParrot]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Now can i ask about statute barred, i have not asked before bacause at one point when i was writing to lloyds (2009) regarding this and a bank loan lloyds starting replying in one letter in regards to both of my independently sent letters and CCA requests etc making things like working dates out a bit of a gamble.
Now the reason i ask about this now is as he stated to me today the default judgment was made mid 2007, but i have a debt collectors letter here, dated dec 2007 where i have written on it that i paid them £5 feb 08 and april 08, does this mean that the default stays... i know its meant to start the clock ticking on the SB side of things so i have been thinking im stuffed........... is it worth me 'chancing my arm' at the possability its SB'd ?? as im not sure if they will have a record of me paying on those dates because of him stating today the default date.

Default judgment? :confused2: What does this refer to? :noidea:

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Hi Gorang, no i didnt tell him i am recording as i dont have to, only they do as they are an organisation, i as a member of the public do not have to, it can be polite of you to inform them, but i record ALL my calls, i even had the police here the other week, not doing their job over anti social behavior from some new locals, and i video'd the whole thing, no problems at all..came under recording and investigations act last time i looked, please let me know if you have found different...........Yes i got him to confirm his name and he said he would put it in writing to us, i may just send a confirmation letter of our call any way, then that will remove any controversy away from the recording i made for my research. Yes i know the SB will go from the last payment, just was wondering if they would definitely have a copy of the two payments i wrote down that i had made, only a side thought and probably not worth spending to much time on as im sure this will now go on hold as i, and they know they have not done any of this correctly.

The default judgment i think he means is the date the account defaulted, like i say he was 'mature' and was very 'nervy' on the phone, really sounded like he didnt have Efin clue what he was on about to be honest .

[Gorang]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Hi Gorang, no i didnt tell him i am recording as i dont have to, only they do as they are an organisation, i as a member of the public do not have to,What makes you think that you don't have to for just being a member of the public???? it can be polite of you to inform them, but i record ALL my calls, i even had the police here the other week, not doing their job over anti social behavior from some new locals, and i video'd the whole thing, no problems at all..came under recording and investigations act last time i looked, can you post up where this says you can record and use as evidence without them knowing they are being recorded please please let me know if you have found different...........

This is ONLY my thinking and what I have seen a few times over the years regarding videos and sound recordings being thrown out of court because of

1, there were no signs up saying the premises is protected by CCTV, commercial or domestic makes no difference (latest one I know of was 2 weeks ago where police warned a man, that was ABOUT, to film an annoying neighbour) most cases the police will look at the vid so they can get a better idea of who they are looking for and how to catch them, but that's it, as far as I'm aware once the police watch the vid they then tell you that the vid CAN'T be used as evidence in court, because along the lines of, the person starring in the video DIDN'T get a Fair chance to know they were being filmed, but I would like to be proved wrong on this one

AND

2, by people not being informed that they are being recorded at the beginning of the conversation (last one I know of was about 2yrs ago when a man recorded a meeting between himself and a police inspector, when the police found out about the recording, they threatened to charge the man unless the recording was deleted, he spoke to his solicitor and was told the charges would/could/can/will stick if he was charged as he didn't inform the inspector the meeting was being recorded) If I remember right its sumit along the lines of infringing their rights and entrapment, but I can't remember exactly to say for 100%

BUT

If there is a law that says any of these can happen, and, can be used, in a court as evidence, then I would like to see that law

like i say he was 'mature' and was very 'nervy' on the phone, really sounded like he didnt have Efin clue what he was on about to be honest .

In that case do you really trust anything he told you?? and if you already think this, then would the recording even be credible evidence in court??? and would a judge think the same as you after hearing the recording???

Yes i got him to confirm his name and he said he would put it in writing to us,

Did he confirm his position in the company as a judge could say
"how do you know for sure that you haven't just have spoken to a mature, above his pay grade teaboy on the phone"
(and a judge HAS actually said that EXACT words to ME in court, so my argument of what I was told on the phone was thrown OUT)

Personally

Yes I would CHASE them up for your CPR so they don't forget about it,
BUT
I would ONLY depend on what you get in writing and don't get your hopes up too much with what they tell you on the phone, UNTIL you have it in writing, as I and prob many of us, has seen it many times over the years, banks or DCA's say one thing on a phone, even face to face in front of a court door, then do the exact opposite as they have just said 2 mins ago

But like I said that's only me and my thinking so please satisfy your own mind

[charitynjw]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2699/note/made

The Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice) (Interception of Communications) Regulations 2000

EXPLANATORY NOTE

(This note is not part of the Regulations)

These Regulations authorise certain interceptions of telecommunication communications which would otherwise be prohibited by section 1 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. To the extent that the interceptions are also prohibited by Article 5.1 of Directive 97/66/EC, the authorisation does not exceed that permitted by Articles 5.2 and 14.1 of the Directive.The interception has to be by or with the consent of a person carrying on a business (which includes the activities of government departments, public authorities and others exercising statutory functions) for purposes relevant to that person’s business and using that business’s own telecommunication system.Interceptions are authorised for—

• monitoring or recording communications—
  • to establish the existence of facts, to ascertain compliance with regulatory or self-regulatory practices or procedures or to ascertain or demonstrate standards which are or ought to be achieved (quality control and training),
  • in the interests of national security (in which case only certain specified public officials may make the interception),
  • to prevent or detect crime,
  • to investigate or detect unauthorised use of telecommunication systems or,
  • to secure, or as an inherent part of, effective system operation;
  
  
• monitoring received communications to determine whether they are business or personal communications;
• monitoring communications made to anonymous telephone helplines.

Interceptions are authorised only if the controller of the telecommunications system on which they are effected has made all reasonable efforts to inform potential users that interceptions may be made.The Regulations do not authorise interceptions to which the persons making and receiving the communications have consented: they are not prohibited by the Act.A regulatory impact assessment is available and can be obtained from Communications and Information Industries Directorate, Department of Trade and Industry, 151 Buckingham Palace Road, London SW1W 9SS. Copies have been placed in the libraries of both Houses of Parliament.