cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQUEST

**mystery1** · 4th November 2013, 21:57:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Was this MCOL ? If so file the AoS online.

You say no default notice. That is a defence. It's only a winning defence if you can convince a court it's true on the balance of probabilities. They say they did you say it didn't arrive. Why would a judge believe you over them ? How good are your records ? Do you keep everything or have you thrown most of it away ?

S78 non compliance is a defence. You should have got the original agreement, or a true copy of it, as well as the current signed statement etc. I haven't seen what you have so you'll have to make the call if they've complied or not.

Lack of assignment is a defence. I doubt they used signed for delivery. Not a cast iron win but a very arguable point.

Have they sent cca s86c information yearly since 2008 ?

Do you know how you obtained the credit and if you ever signed for it ? (pre 04/2007?)

31.14 is good but can be hard to enforce for amounts that ultiomately will go to small claims track. Technically the claim is currently trackless but you're getting in to a lottery with judges on this. worth sending though.

M1

**sarnie2109** · 4th November 2013, 22:37:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Thanks for the reply, its made me realize how much ive forgotten, i need to read up lots and quickly.
ill answer your points in turn to try and keep it short.
MCoL is that moneyclaim online? (sounds a silly question i know) it says on the N1 on right hand side i can respond online with a password, so if yes, ok i will respond online.

A default notice, is something i am certain i have not received, at least from the time of debt collectors letters on the increase and me fighting back c2009, and yes i have all copies of everything sent recorded delivery,and lloyds response saying as my 1st post regarding the TC's etc in a folder..... im sure some of the earlier correspondence i sent is missing from the file, but will look for it as only just dug this lot out. i state in my last letter to lloyds that i am asking for all this info because at the time the alleged agreement was signed i lost my mum to cancer and had severe depression (have letter from doctor confirming this) and i wished to see the paperwork, i was trying to be honorable not ignoring it, so hopefully that will also go in my defense that i was asking for paperwork, so why would i not keep the DN had they sent one.... lloyds seamed to treat my s78 request as more of a complaint hence me getting their 'FINAL NOTICE' letter in regards to my correspondence refusing their CCA and separate terms and conditions.

S78, ill post copies tomz, with details removed.
Definatly no assignment letter in regards to crapquest.

Could you explain cca s86c please, but weve had nothing from them in years not a thing. if we had of done we would have responded accordingly.

maybe worth mentioning but this according to their supplied CCA (supplied to me in 2009)says its an 'advanced credit card internet acceptance form'. i will take pics of these in the morning and post them up. but basicly i think i may have either filled out a form on line and they either sent it to me to sign or ive had to print it out, sign it and send to them. it was today!!!!!! in 2004 when i signed it.

**mystery1** · 4th November 2013, 22:49:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

An online tick box in 2004 is not a valid signature. However since you don't recall it's not a great point. MCOL, you've got it.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/86C

[F186CNotice of sums in arrears under running-account credit agreements

(1)This section applies where at any time the following conditions are satisfied—
(a)that the debtor under an applicable agreement is required to have made at least two payments under the agreement before that time;
(b)that the last two payments which he is required to have made before that time have not been made;
(c)that the creditor has not already been required to give a notice under this section in relation to either of those payments; and
(d)if a judgment has been given in relation to the agreement before that time, that there is no sum still to be paid under the judgment by the debtor.
(2)The creditor shall, no later than the end of the period within which he is next required to give a statement under section 78(4) in relation to the agreement, give the debtor a notice under this section.
(3)The notice shall include a copy of the current arrears information sheet under section 86A.
(4)The notice may be incorporated in a statement or other notice which the creditor gives the debtor in relation to the agreement by virtue of another provision of this Act.
(5)The debtor shall have no liability to pay any sum in connection with the preparation or the giving to him of the notice.
(6)Regulations may make provision about the form and content of notices under this section.
(7)In this section ‘applicable agreement’ means an agreement which—
(a)is a regulated agreement for running-account credit; and
(b)is neither a non-commercial agreement nor a small agreement.
[F3(8)In this section “payments” means payments to be made at predetermined intervals provided for under the terms of the agreement.]]]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/86D

[F186DFailure to give notice of sums in arrears

(1)This section applies where the creditor or owner under an agreement is under a duty to give the debtor or hirer notices under section 86B but fails to give him such a notice—
(a)within the period mentioned in subsection (2)(a) of that section; or
(b)within the period of six months beginning with the day after the day on which such a notice was last given to him.
(2)This section also applies where the creditor under an agreement is under a duty to give the debtor a notice under section 86C but fails to do so before the end of the period mentioned in subsection (2) of that section.
(3)The creditor or owner shall not be entitled to enforce the agreement during the period of non-compliance.
(4)The debtor or hirer shall have no liability to pay—
(a)any sum of interest to the extent calculated by reference to the period of non-compliance or to any part of it; or
(b)any default sum which (apart from this paragraph)—
(i)would have become payable during the period of non-compliance; or
(ii)would have become payable after the end of that period in connection with a breach of the agreement which occurs during that period (whether or not the breach continues after the end of that period).
(5)In this section ‘the period of non-compliance’ means, in relation to a failure to give a notice under section 86B or 86C to the debtor or hirer, the period which—
(a)begins immediately after the end of the period mentioned in (as the case may be) subsection (1)(a) or (b) or (2); and
(b)ends at the end of the day mentioned in subsection (6).
(6)That day is—
(a)in the case of a failure to give a notice under section 86B as mentioned in subsection (1)(a) of this section, the day on which the notice is given to the debtor or hirer;
(b)in the case of a failure to give a notice under that section as mentioned in subsection (1)(b) of this section, the earlier of the following—
(i)the day on which the notice is given to the debtor or hirer;
(ii)the day on which the condition mentioned in subsection (4)(a) of that section is satisfied;
(c)in the case of a failure to give a notice under section 86C, the day on which the notice is given to the debtor.]]

M1

**FlamingParrot** · 4th November 2013, 22:50:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Originally posted by sarnie2109 View Post

I heard no more in 4 years, and certainly have heard nothing regarding crapquest buying the debt, no assignment letter, nothing, then a few days back i get the court papers from CQ.... oh, certainly not had a LBA.

Are you saying no-one wrote to you in 4 years? :noidea:

Originally posted by sarnie2109 View Post

On the particulars of claim it states

1; claim for the sum of £3,ooo'ish in respect of monies owed by defendant on credit agreement with lloyds, under ACC no (the account number is not on any original paperwork i have!! and means nothing to me) upon i didnt pay.(well i wouldnt, llyods have had 4 years to NOT come up with a pucka CCA)

2;a default notice was 'served' on me......... nothing zip diddlysquat. ........whats the 'legal' meaning of 'served' ?

3; by virtue of a sale agreement with lloyds and the claimant the claim vested in the claimant who has a genuine commercial interest. The defendant has been notified of assignment by letter......... nope first ive heard of any of this.

Those are the documents that you would request on your CPR 31.14 letter.

Originally posted by sarnie2109 View Post

so im thinking first plan of action, after a read up on here, as after a few years off ive forgotten more than i thought, but think im right in saying.....

eturn acknowledge of service papers asap,filled out to defend all of claim i got about 7 or so days left.

If you acknowledge stating your intention to defend, you have a further 14 days to submit your defence, giving you a total of 28 days.

Originally posted by sarnie2109 View Post

r(As lloyds never complied with my CCA request 3-4 years ago could i defend this on jurisdiction (if thats what it refers to in this instance)as well ?....... as surely lloyds cannot do anything with the debt until they comply with the CCA request, so how can CQ buy it)

Jurisdiction refers to the court, not to the assignment of the debt. Debts can be sold regardless of whether they are live, defaulted, disputed or even statut

Originally posted by sarnie2109 View Post

send CPR 31.14 to crapquest as the N1 only had the PoC with no added paperwork and as ive not heard of their involvement so far let alone buying the debt.
and wait as i need to find a good thread to read and brush up on it all.
Hopefully they wont send anything, default on the time scale and ill have it squashed.

Any help would be gratefully received, off now to read through the threads to see what info i can find.

They don't have to attach paperwork to claims submitted through the bulk centre.

Crapquest seem to be issuing court papers like confetti,

have a read at the following threads:

**FlamingParrot** · 4th November 2013, 22:53:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Originally posted by sarnie2109 View Post

Hi all,
Its been a while since ive been on here as most of my troubles had gone away due to writing letters with info and help from here and another very good site.

Anyway i had sent a CCA request to lloyds in 2009 and they sent back a copy that they labelled 'copy of application enclosed' of just that an application form and it was on 2 pages that had been microfiched and they sent me the photocopy's, signed but with no ££amount or CCA information present, they also attached some terms and conditions spread out over 4 pages, and they also stated they were 'newer' TC'c to show any amendments that may have been added

, jokers

Could you scan or take a picture of the documents they sent you

hoto:, covering up your personal details, and post them up here? :typing:

**sarnie2109** · 4th November 2013, 23:29:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Originally posted by FlamingParrot View Post

Are you saying no-one wrote to you in 4 years? :noidea: yep, no body. like i say i sent a cca request c2009(part of my missing records) and they responded with the document that i was told at the time didnt fully comply with CCA terms along with a 4 page newer version of the TC's. i have here my response letter to the senior officer at lloyds and his letters back to me, my response was an, account in dispute- notice of conditional agreement and request for clarification feb 2010 in which i tell him i see the document more of an online form not a CCA (it does have my signature on it though, or one like it) and that the terms didnt comply, quoting the CCA act. and that i was asking for all this as i could not remember it as i was so ill due to depression brought on by my mums death. after that i got the FINAL RESPONSE letter from lloyds saying they feel they have complied and that if i want i can now go to the Financial ombudsman etc etc and that was the last i heard, no annual statement no assignment letter just the N1
Those are the documents that you would request on your CPR 31.14 letter.

thats what i was thinking least that way i see what they got

If you acknowledge stating your intention to defend, you have a further 14 days to submit your defence, giving you a total of 28 days. but ive only got seven left at the moment so i wont have the full 28 days from now, ill get 21, enough time anyway i hope.

Jurisdiction refers to the court, not to the assignment of the debt. Debts can be sold regardless of whether they are live, defaulted, disputed or even statut
ive just read that in CPrules
They don't have to attach paperwork to claims submitted through the bulk centre.

My reason for wanting to use the CPR31.14

i will get a pic of the docs asap

**sarnie2109** · 5th November 2013, 12:51:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Right guys, sorry this has taken me ages to get these on here.

These are what lloyds sent me end of 09 beginning of 2010.

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**sarnie2109** · 5th November 2013, 15:15:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Id be really grateful if somebody could cast their eyes over the above docs and let me know what they think of them.
i put them up on a site i was using for some help back then when i received the docs and was told that the CCA didnt comply and was unenforceable, since then ive learnt a bit more and now when i look at it it seems to have most of the correct terms???? and concerns me a little.

I also own my house and am worried if i loose they may put a charge against it.

I really cannot remember how i took this out but it has got a signature that looks like mine on the form, it may have come via an email offering me a card or i may have gone online but i really cant remember, the date on the form is the day after my mums funeral, nine years ago today!

**Amethyst** · 5th November 2013, 15:23:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

On your agreement there are references to further terms ie. (See also 5 and 9) - do you have those terms from the same date in your request or only the later ones?

Term 8 on the clearer copies makes it seem like they are only newer terms as the penalty charge is set at £12. Plus it's Term 8 and the front page refers to points 5 and 9 for charges.

If you have a thread elsewhere, however old, it may be useful to pop a link to it (if you want to). If not do you recall the reasons you were given for the CCA being ''unenforceable'' and have you received any additional documents?

**sarnie2109** · 5th November 2013, 15:40:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

all you see above is all i received document wise, thank you for the reply, the banks own words in the letter sent with the terms states they are 'newer and more up todate'

Ill see if i can find the thread on another site and post a link is that ok to do)

**sarnie2109** · 5th November 2013, 15:57:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Im trying to remember what my old username was on this other site....

I remember being told it did NOT have the prescribed terms to comply with an enforceable CCA, but would just like to check again before committing myself to an avenue of defence......... and i have had nothing from anybody regarding this account, just the court papers.

**FlamingParrot** · 5th November 2013, 17:53:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Originally posted by sarnie2109 View Post

all you see above is all i received document wise, thank you for the reply, the banks own words in the letter sent with the terms states they are 'newer and more up todate'

Ill see if i can find the thread on another site and post a link is that ok to do)

Does that mean they never supplied you terms from inception? :confused2: Because those are the terms you allegedly agreed to when you signed the agreement, not the 'more up-to-date' ones. :nono:

RBS did something similar with me, sent me a signed application form with no terms, then I sent the account in dispute letter, which produced a number of sets of random terms but not the actual ones from inception. It was deemed unenforceable by various people on two forums (one of them CAG, which is probably the one you are referring to).

Originally posted by sarnie2109 View Post

Im trying to remember what my old username was on this other site....

I remember being told it did NOT have the prescribed terms to comply with an enforceable CCA, but would just like to check again before committing myself to an avenue of defence......... and i have had nothing from anybody regarding this account, just the court papers.

It was probably because they didn't supply terms from inception, as I said above.

**sarnie2109** · 5th November 2013, 18:57:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

the supposed CCA turned up with one letter and then in another letter came the TC's in their words in this letter it says ''my colleague sent you a copy of the application documents (the ones i have posted above) for the credit card account, sorry the copy you received was illegible, in the circumstances i have ordered another copy (never turned up).......... next paragraph.

The application document supplied, forms the credit agreement regulated by the consumer Credit act 1974... we have supplied a copy of the terms and conditions relating to our credit card accounts. Although you have asked for the original terms and conditions for this credit account, we have provided a copy of the up to date TC's as these will include any relevant changes to the terms (????) as notified to our Account holders since the Account was opened.''

He does go on to state on the next page about the ... account was closed april 2007 for debt recovery and transferred to our cust debt recovery. this followed the issue of a default notice sent 12 march 2007 and formal demand on 3 april 2007...... i dont honestly remember receiving anything from them, but if it was 2007 the head was still buried in the sand at that point in time.

i think i really need to see if this CCA stacks up as being enforceable, as if it is, i think im going to struggle........ im thinking about going for the CPR and see if their default notices etc are at fault.

**FlamingParrot** · 5th November 2013, 22:49:PM

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Originally posted by sarnie2109 View Post

the supposed CCA turned up with one letter and then in another letter came the TC's in their words in this letter it says ''my colleague sent you a copy of the application documents (the ones i have posted above) for the credit card account, sorry the copy you received was illegible, in the circumstances i have ordered another copy (never turned up).......... next paragraph.

The application document supplied, forms the credit agreement regulated by the consumer Credit act 1974... we have supplied a copy of the terms and conditions relating to our credit card accounts. Although you have asked for the original terms and conditions for this credit account, we have provided a copy of the up to date TC's as these will include any relevant changes to the terms (????) as notified to our Account holders since the Account was opened.''

The terms from inception are an integral part of your consumer credit agreement. I am wondering whether they were there in the first place, or whether they would have been supplied with the card as it was often done. Do your recall how you opened this account at all? How did you apply?

cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQUEST