CCJ help please

[abbiesmom]

Hi guys, sorry if this is the wrong place, need help and am new here.

A few weeks ago I got papers from Northampton court for an alleged debt to a law firm for unpaid fees (which i thought was covered by legal aid back in 2010) but seems it wasn't.

I never received an invoice from the law firm and my defence was that I didn't know anything about the debt and believed that it was all covered by legal aid as all the forms were completed and I was in receipt of income support.

Following a post on a forum of a different website I phoned the law firm who acted for me and discovered that the work wasn't covered by legal aid and they claimed to have sent me 3 letters. I did move after my divorce but had royal mail redirection service on for 6 months and no letters. I agreed a payment plan with them (verbally) and they said they will cease court proceedings whilst they investigate my claims for non receipt of letters and set up the payment plan.

Fast forward to today and I get a letter saying the case has been transferred to my local court. Why is the case still going ahead when they say they will stop it? What happens next? I have still not had copies of the letters they allege to have sent which they said they will forward to me at my new address.

They have always had my mobile phone number and email address to be able to contact me. I saw no reason back in 2010 to give them a forwarding address as the case was closed after my divorce to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Where do I stand?

Am I likely to get a CCJ which will affect me for 6 years because of an administration error on their part?

I am really at my wits ends. What should I do next? Can I add the verbal agreement we made (which I have stuck to and they have not) to my defence?

[mikkid82]

Re: CCJ help please

Hi Abbiesmom. Do you have any paperwork stating that legal aid was going to cover their fees or any paper work that granted you legal aid? As divorce is and was being covered by legal aid in 2010.

[abbiesmom]

Re: CCJ help please

Hi Abbiesmom. Do you have any paperwork stating that legal aid was going to cover their fees or any paper work that granted you legal aid? As divorce is and was being covered by legal aid in 2010.

I have no paperwork from back then that I can find but certainly remember the solicitor filling in the form to apply for legal aid - don't remember if I had anything saying it was granted or to the contrary.

My whole life was a mess back then, left my home due to domestic violence and took next to nothing with me. I can honestly say though that until the letter from Northampton I knew nothing of the debt to the solicitors. The letter came to my current address and they had means of contacting me by phone and email and I can prove the royal mail redirection as I still have the email confirmation from that.

Someone on the other forum mentioned I should have been notified of their intention to pursue legal action for recovery of the debt. I have had nothing of the sort. I also requested copies of the letters they claim to have sent to my previous address when the court letter came almost 3 weeks ago and still haven't even received these. I have no idea how to go about defending a claim that I knew nothing about until now and despite talking to the solicitors firm who said they would cease the legal action while they investigate it has still been transferred to my local court.

I have no idea what I should do next. Should I wait for the court date and bring it all up then or do I try and resolve things with the solicitors.

I have actually started paying while they investigate what aspect of my bill wasn't covered by legal aid as this was the deal we came to verbally when I phoned them for information though I could never cover the sum they are claiming I owe before court and certainly not within 1 month of court to satisfy a CCJ.

[labman]

Re: CCJ help please

I am NOT an expert in court procedures, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along, but......

I would try and settle things informally with the solicitors in the first instance, but do things by email or other written medium, NOT telephone calls, as you need your paper trail.

IF things cannot be settled informally, I've attached a link to the CPR's below, specifically 26.4 allows for you to apply for a stay while you seek a resolution. :beagle:

[PlanB]

Re: CCJ help please

I got papers from Northampton court for an alleged debt to a law firm for unpaid fees (which i thought was covered by legal aid back in 2010) but seems it wasn't.

I never received an invoice from the law firm and my defence was that I didn't know anything about the debt and believed that it was all covered by legal aid as all the forms were completed and I was in receipt of income support.

Following a post on a forum of a different website I phoned the law firm who acted for me and discovered that the work wasn't covered by legal aid and they claimed to have sent me 3 letters. I did move after my divorce but had royal mail redirection service on for 6 months and no letters. I agreed a payment plan with them (verbally) and they said they will cease court proceedings whilst they investigate my claims for non receipt of letters and set up the payment plan.

Fast forward to today and I get a letter saying the case has been transferred to my local court. Why is the case still going ahead when they say they will stop it? What happens next? I have still not had copies of the letters they allege to have sent which they said they will forward to me at my new address.

They have always had my mobile phone number and email address to be able to contact me. I saw no reason back in 2010 to give them a forwarding address as the case was closed after my divorce to the best of my knowledge and belief.

I think you need to establish whether you actually owe these fees first. You refer to these being in relation to divorce proceedings in which case the outcome of those proceedings will be very relevant. Did you have an order which included legal costs? Could it be that your ex-partner was ordered (or agreed by consent) to pay your legal costs but he hasn't done that so your solicitors are chasing you for the money because strictly speaking your contract would have been with them? What does it say about costs in that order?

Next you need to establish whether you can have the solicitor's costs assessed for accuracy. This is done by making an application for a Detailed Costs Assessment. Strictly speaking this should be done within three months of getting the bill, but since you say the solicitor never sent you the Bill of Costs then you should be able to still apply for an assessment to get the bill reduced or even cancelled if the firm messed up over the Legal Aid issue. With any luck (and you'll need formal legal advice on this point) the county court proceedings could be stayed to allow for the costs assessment to go ahead. Here's some information on how to go about getting costs assessed:

http://uk.practicallaw.com/5-204-8012

Finally it's unusual for someone on benefits (Income Support) divorcing due to domestic violence issues not to be granted Legal Aid particularly in 2010 (things are a bit tighter these days). If I were you I would contact the Legal Aid Agency (which replaced the Legal Services Commission in April this year) to get more details on your original application and apparent rejection. There's always the possibility that the solicitors failed to complete the formal process. Here's how to contact the LAA to check out what really did happen. It's not a very helpful link so I'll try to pop back later with a better one

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/rcj...ts-office/fees

[abbiesmom]

Re: CCJ help please

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, got a little lost and thought I would get an email notification of responses...still need to figure out how to set that up.

To update you guys we have had a preliminary hearing which they didn't attend, the judge was sympathetic to my situation however believes that it has to follow the small claims track from what I can gather. I have to send copies of my defence to the court and the claimant by 31 December. I have since had copies from the solicitors a 'LETTER BEFORE ACTION' which is dated October 2010. I did not receive this however did indeed have copies of the bill which I queried at the time due to the legal aid issue and they have included in the documents they sent me a reply to my claim stating that I had not signed the legal aid claim form. It's all so long ago and was during a particularly stressful time for me that I don't know what is true and what isn't.

I'm not too savvy when it comes to legal issues as you can see! I don't know what my next steps are. They are saying this is all because I didn't sign a form though I do remember signing something at our first meeting and them taking copies of my benefit letters. I have requested copies of all documents they hold relating to work they carried out for me in 2010 hoping to retrieve this info but am a little worried it wont arrive in time to satisfy the 31 December date for the court especially with all the additional Christmas post, bank holidays etc

What else can I do in the meantime? Any suggestions much appreciated but it does look as if this whole thing is down to a stupid mistake I made by not visiting offices that were 20 mins drive away except for once which was the first occasion and conducting the rest of the business by post and phone for which they've billed me heavily!

[Gorang]

Re: CCJ help please

Hi abbiesmom

I have requested copies of all documents they hold relating to work they carried out for me in 2010 hoping to retrieve this info but am a little worried it wont arrive in time to satisfy the 31 December date for the court especially with all the additional Christmas post, bank holidays etc

First of all WELL DONE for attending court yourself, as I suspect they would of won by default if you had NOT of turned up, so WELL DONE, and that's 1st round won for you

Did you submit anything written to the court at all???
acknowledgement or a written defence or did you just talk to the judge when you was there????

Regarding the info you have requested from them

HOW did you request this info??
Did you request it via a phone call or in writing??
If in writing can you post up the exact wording minus your personal details so we can see what you have asked for

And lastly for now
The 31st December limit for court

DON'T worry your self about this as if they have NOT gave you the info you have asked for then you can apply to the court to have their claim struck out, since they didn't bother to, go to court in first place and if they don't give you the info


First we need to know how you requested the info so we can advise of your next move regards them

[abbiesmom]

Re: CCJ help please

Thanks for the reply, in court I just sat and talked with the judge who was very nice and I hope will be the same one throughout the entire process, he explained that the next stage would probably be in the same room (private chambers) so it's a little less daunting for the task ahead.

Request was sent in writing which I faxed to them (I have the slip confirming fax sent with no issue) do you think I should send in post also?

I have requested all information to which I am entitled under the Data Protection Act 1998 particularly relating to any work carried out on my behalf in 2010 whilst living at my previous address which I stated. Letter goes on to say should they require further information or payment for this service then they are to inform me ASAP. This was faxed to the company on 25/11. Nothing from them as yet.

The purpose of this is to try and dig up my request for legal aid as I am convinced this is all an admin error on their part and to show that had

[abbiesmom]

Re: CCJ help please

sorry hit wrong button!

should read;

show that all our communication was indeed carried out via telephone and letter and nothing to suggest that I was not entitled to legal aid was ever sent to me.

How long do I have to request more time or for the court to strike the case? I am really in a panic over this date of 31 December as it seems they are delaying me being able to provide my defence on time.

[Gorang]

Re: CCJ help please

How long do I have to request more time or for the court to strike the case? I am really in a panic over this date of 31 December as it seems they are delaying me being able to provide my defence on time.

Don't worry about the time as yet as you have plenty of time to compile your defence IF they supply you with the info you have asked,

You have right up until the next hearing AND at the hearing, to make a request for more time or a strike out

If they supply the info on the last day before (or very close to) the next hearing then you can request more time to compile your defence as they have taken so long to comply with your request, so time is NOT an issue now as a judge will be on your side with this, as you are allowed 21 days as per court rules to compile your defence

If they don't supply then that is all the better for you as you then can either request more time or apply for their claim to be struck out

We can cross that bridge when we come to it

Please please don't be worried about the time as you have already done the hardest bit by attending the first hearing and by the looks of what you have said the judge is firmly on your side at this point, just because you turned up and they didn't, personally I think that will have hacked off the judge seeing as they are solicitors and they didn't bother to turn up, it suggests they were going for a win by default, ie they were banking on you not turning up to the court, BUT you did so well done, and that's round one to you

As you have emailed the request, posting will not be needed as you will have proof of when it was sent, BUT

Can you copy and paste (minus all of your personal details) and post up the full request email (and any reply they gave you) for us so we can see the exact wording on the whole thing so we can have a look to see
if there is anything that can be added to it or if we can improve it in any way,
if we can use their response to hit them with anything else to improve your case

I have asked for someone with legal knowledge to come and have a look at your case here also, just so we can get a legal point of view on it for you as well, so please don't worry as you are in the BEST place to get help with this, and so far you have made a VERY good job by yourself, and we are going nowhere, so you are NOT alone with this

[PlanB]

Re: CCJ help please

I have requested all information to which I am entitled under the Data Protection Act 1998 particularly relating to any work carried out on my behalf in 2010 whilst living at my previous address which I stated. Letter goes on to say should they require further information or payment for this service then they are to inform me ASAP. This was faxed to the company on 25/11.

If you made a subject access request under the Data Protection Act 1988 you will need to pay the £10 statutory fee otherwise the firm may refuse to respond to your request. Obviously this can't be done by fax so you may have to quickly send them a cheque with a copy of your SAR in the post.

They will have 40 days to deal with your request which unfortunately takes you past the 31st December deadline. However if you can demonstrate to the court that you have a SAR outstanding then you may be able to ask the court for an extension of time to file your Defence because you need the information in order to be able to do that. You may also be able to agree a 28 day extension with the Claimant and inform the court. As you get closer to the deadline you can tell the Claimant that unless they agree to an extension you will apply to the court for one and there could be "cost consequences" for them

That SAR will include everything on the file not just what they want you to see. It will include all attendance notes which include a record of the content of all phone calls.

[PlanB]

Re: CCJ help please

I think you need to establish whether you actually owe these fees first. You refer to these being in relation to divorce proceedings in which case the outcome of those proceedings will be very relevant. Did you have an order which included legal costs? Could it be that your ex-partner was ordered (or agreed by consent) to pay your legal costs but he hasn't done that so your solicitors are chasing you for the money because strictly speaking your contract would have been with them? What does it say about costs in that order?

^^^^ I think this issue may still be relevant

[PlanB]

Re: CCJ help please

I agreed a payment plan with them (verbally) and they said they will cease court proceedings whilst they investigate my claims for non receipt of letters and set up the payment plan.

Can you just clarify what happened about this payment plan. Did you make any payments to the firm? And what was the result of the firm's investigation into the missing correspondence?

[abbiesmom]

Re: CCJ help please

Quite a few questions to deal with so apologies if I miss anything

OK...here's what I have...3 invoices 1 dated 6/5/2010 for £1475.22, 1 dated 9/6/10 for £70.85 and 1 dated 21/7/10 for £224.37 mostly made up of telephone calls at £201 per hour (which I believe is to me to deal with my instructions as I was unable to attend the offices but can't confirm this without the SAR) making a total of £1770.44 the bill now stands at £1070 because of payments I have made

Included with this is a letter which I have sent to them stating I should be entitled to legal aid then a responce stating that I would need to attend the office to sign a form (which I didn't) and that they included a Standing order form for me to complete and return (which I must have as it is included) this is dated 27/07/13 - they have taken no payments using this method. - across the payment form is a note from them stating "my copy original sent to MY BANK NAME 27/7 all this is a photocopy.

In addition there is a FINAL REMINDER BEFORE COURT dated 29/10/10 I have never seen this letter prior to this. It is not signed like the other letters are - I do not believe they sent this. Letter just says We have written to you previously on a number of occasions relating to your above mentioned balance which remains unpaid. Please remember that if you choose to ignore this letter we can issue proceedings against you and not only will you have to pay your outstanding fees owed to us, but also court costs and interest. If a County Court Judgement is registered against you it will adversely affect your credit rating. We are now taking steps to retrieve the outstanding amount by issuing proceedings against you in the County Court without further notice. Yours Sincerely and a name typed.

I have not sent £10 and have asked them to advise me if a fee is payable and therefore do you recommend just sending £10 anyway?

I accept that I may not have completed a legal aid form - I really don't know. I remember being passed things to sign, signing them and the receptionist photocopying my id and benefit letters.

I have so far used my Christmas savings to try and clear this debt. I have been nothing but reasonable with this company as far as I am concerned and am continuing to pay as per our verbal agreement as they have told me it's too late to get the legal aid now as it can't be backdated even if there were forms from that period.

What do you think? Do I stand any chance at all here as it is looking more likely to be my fault despite them having the ability to take payment since July 2010 but never doing so although I genuinely thought the legal aid situation had been sorted.

[abbiesmom]

Re: CCJ help please

I don't know what an 'order' is and have no idea if I have ever received one. I have listed above all the docs they have sent me which I assume is their case against me which they will put as evidence to the court.

I should also clarify that they sent a letter to court stating that they would not be attending to keep the costs at a minimum and that they phoned me today to ensure I have received the papers above and if I intended to defend and I said yes, their next suggestion was to offer me to sign a declaration agreeing to £50 a month which they would put before the court. I told them I wasn't willing to sign anything so she then asked 'why was I paying?' and I told her because they told me to!

I have been told that if I can get this balance below £750 before court they can't make me bankrupt.