I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

[apocalypsedreams]

This seems to be the most appropriate forum for this.

I run a very modest business and got shafted by a supplier last year.
Opened a county court case that went through the small claims track.
Debtor did not respond so received a default judgment.

I applied for and was granted a third party debt order.
Luckily, the debtor's accounts had about half the debt owed and this was duly frozen.
Debtor failed to appeal against the order - didn't even show up to the hearing!

Cheque arrived and was banked today. Success!
My options now seem to be:

a/ instruct bailiffs
b/ instigate bankruptcy
c/ apply for another third party debt order
d/ forget it and move on

The first step I have taken is to contact the debtor and tell him I want to talk, but I don't think they will.

Thanks for any advice.

[ploddertom]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

How much is still outstanding? Does the debtor have any assets that could be seized/removed/sold?

[apocalypsedreams]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

Nearly £2400. The debtor's business address appears to be a p.o. box, although I am not entirely sure.

I have had an email reply to my contact with the debtor in which he offers £250 as a final settlement!

[ploddertom]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

I assume you are not interested in 10%.

You could transfer the Judgment through to the High Court for enforcement, there is a fee to pay and the enforcement officers are a lot more tenacious than the County Court Bailiff, if they cannot progress there is an abortive fee to pay. Any costs are added to his bill. If a business that is open to the general public then this is quite an effective way to go.

You could also drag him back to Court under an Order to obtain information, he will be questioned as to his finances and why he has not paid, if he fails to appear as ordered he runs the risk of arrest.

I think you will find that he will be prepared for you doing the same as last time and will only have day to day capital in the bank.

[Sapphire]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

Hiya If you send me the Debtors details via PM, I'll do a Creditsafe check on them for you, if they appear I will be able to get their full address and lots of other details for you.

I'd also be inclined to do as Ploddertom suggests, they owe you, don't be so nice about it.

[apocalypsedreams]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

Thanks sapphire,

pm sent

[Sapphire]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

Ok have replied I think you'll find the results fascinating.

[apocalypsedreams]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

Thanks to sapphire for the following info:

They have three ccj's against them, totalling over £35,000.
The director has been through a veritable ton of companies, mostly dissolved.

[apocalypsedreams]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

I have made the debtor a proposal that I will accept, we'll see what he says.

Thanks for your advice and support. I will keep you informed.

[bluebottle]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

I assume you are not interested in 10%.

You could transfer the Judgment through to the High Court for enforcement, there is a fee to pay and the enforcement officers are a lot more tenacious than the County Court Bailiff, if they cannot progress there is an abortive fee to pay. Any costs are added to his bill. If a business that is open to the general public then this is quite an effective way to go.

You could also drag him back to Court under an Order to obtain information, he will be questioned as to his finances and why he has not paid, if he fails to appear as ordered he runs the risk of arrest.

I think you will find that he will be prepared for you doing the same as last time and will only have day to day capital in the bank.

I had to do that once. The hearing to examine the debtor's finances is called an Oral Examination. If you fail to show at the the OE hearing, it is adjourned, but the debtor is warned that failure to show at the adjourned OE hearing will put them in contempt. Fail to show at the adjourned OE hearing and a Committal Order is issued to the Court Bailiffs to execute.
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Thanks to sapphire for the following info:

They have three ccj's against them, totalling over £35,000.
The director has been through a veritable ton of companies, mostly dissolved.

Pardon me asking this, but how the hell have they been allowed to keep setting up companies that keep going down the pan? I was a policeman and used to investigate companies like this. Where were the Official Receiver and the Insolvency Service when all this was happening? These directors should have been disqualified.

[apocalypsedreams]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

I think that the debtor understands now that I'm not messing around so I hope he'll just accept the offer to settle that I have made - it's 65% of what he owes. If he does not, it appears that an Order to obtain information (costs £50) might be the best course of action.

[CleverClogs]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

I think that the debtor understands now that I'm not messing around so I hope he'll just accept the offer to settle that I have made - it's 65% of what he owes. If he does not, it appears that an Order to obtain information (costs £50) might be the best course of action.

Why accept only a fraction of what he still owes?

Can you not invoke section 5 (link) of the Debtors Act 1869 to get him arrested and gaoled as if on a writ of capias ad satisfaciendum?

[apocalypsedreams]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

CC, I'll accept the fraction of the remaining debt I have detailed because that will mean I will have got about 85% of the claim. I actually banked the cheque gained from the bank with the third party debt order on Friday (10th Feb) - in all about 3 months after starting the whole procedure. It will take months again to recover the rest, so I am rather happier with the idea of getting what I've asked for next week (I have given the debtor a deadline).

Will section 5 of the Debtor's Act apply to the director of a company (the claim is against a company). It appears that the Order to obtain information might do the job just as well. I guess I can go to the court and tell them to apply section 5 (assuming it's applicable) and they will do it!

Thanks for your interest, it has been fascinating learning procedures and the various tools we as individuals have access to through the court.

[CleverClogs]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

The Debtors Act has long since fallen into disuse, as the preferred method these days is to require the debtor to appear before the court.

Personally, I'd say that a couple of court official should haul up the fellow by his ankles and shake until the contents fall from his pockets.

If the debtor is a company, then it plainly cannot be gaoled. However, a Statutory Demand (with the risk of a subsequent Winding Up petition) may serve to enforce the judgement.

[apocalypsedreams]

Re: I'm the creditor suing the debtor!

The real fear that I have with issuing a Statutory Demand is the cost involved if I then have to petition for a winding-up order.