County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

[Crispybacon]

Hi All

Today Mrs Crispy has received a county court claim via the Northampton CCBC.

Knowing that I have been under financial pressure Mrs Crispy kept the fact that she was also having financial difficulty from me and that she was in debt to Santander Cards and had a payment arrangement with them.

She had been paying these monthly payments over the telephone and a couple of months ago rang up to make a payment, but 3 days late.

She was told over the phone that it was too late to make a payment and that the debt had been passed to a DCA (Lewis Group) for collection.

We received no communication from the Lewis Group but did get a letter on the 12th September (dated 5th September) from Howard Cohen Solicitors threatening court action.

Going through DW's finances realised that she was going to have to start a DMP so on the 17th September wrote to Howard Cohen (sent recorded delivery) advising them of her financial situation, enclosing an Income/Expenditure sheet and an offer of monthly payment she could afford.

Next thing we get is a court claim from Santander Cards UK Ltd for the full balance which is dated 19th September (literally 2 weeks after that date of their letter).

So question is whats our next steps?

I know I have to acknowledge the claim but I would also like to get the hearing moved to a local court. What is the process for this?

Thanks in advance

Crispy

[Amethyst]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

Once you acknowledge the claim and enter a defence (if you are doing so) then it should be transferred to your local court anyway. If you enter an admission and offer to pay then it will be dealt with at the bulk centre Northampton (assuming the claim was issued through them).

Basically it sounds as though Mrs Crispy defaulted on the account, came to an arrangement to pay, made a late payment thus cancelling the arrangement and they have now taken it to court to secure the arrangement/debt.

You shouldn't have any problem just getting an installment order for the amount you offered in your IE sheet, assuming it is reasonable vs the size of the outstanding debt, although you will probably want to try getting them to drop the case or put in on hold so there is no CCJ recorded unless you default again on the payment arrangement - possibly a consent order negotiated with Santander ?

How much is the total debt and can you post up their particulars of claim. I am assuming from what you have said there isn't any dispute on the debt but if they haven't given all the info in the POC you might be able to use that to help negotiate installments without the CCJ being awarded.

[Crispybacon]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

Hi Amethyst

Thanks for responding. Been doing a bit more digging and discussing what happened last night.

Mrs Crispy fell behind with repayments but from paperwork and statements I have it was only 2 months. She made a payment arrangement but they were not prepared to accept what she could afford and demanded more (you know how it goes) and she agreed to the payment they demanded.

Obviously this was only going to go one way....

She missed a payment and then phoned up to make a payment the following months 3 days late so was effectively 1 payment and 3 days late on the second payment.

They told her it was too late to make a payment and it would be sent to a DCA.

She doesn't recall receiving a default notice nor a termination of the agreement, although the particulars of the claim mention that a default was issued.

Next thing she gets a letter from Howard Cohen dated the 5th September (not received until the 12th) and then the court papers dated the 19th.

It all seems a bit hasty to me and I am wondering if they really have sent a default notice or perhaps this is the reason for the haste is that they don't actually have one?

Is it worth asking for disclosure of these documents under CPR rules and how would I do that?

Sorry for the questions but this process is new to me!

Thanks
Crispy

ps, I'll post the particulars of the claim a bit later this morning, just on the way to work!

Once you acknowledge the claim and enter a defence (if you are doing so) then it should be transferred to your local court anyway. If you enter an admission and offer to pay then it will be dealt with at the bulk centre Northampton (assuming the claim was issued through them).

Basically it sounds as though Mrs Crispy defaulted on the account, came to an arrangement to pay, made a late payment thus cancelling the arrangement and they have now taken it to court to secure the arrangement/debt.

You shouldn't have any problem just getting an installment order for the amount you offered in your IE sheet, assuming it is reasonable vs the size of the outstanding debt, although you will probably want to try getting them to drop the case or put in on hold so there is no CCJ recorded unless you default again on the payment arrangement - possibly a consent order negotiated with Santander ?

How much is the total debt and can you post up their particulars of claim. I am assuming from what you have said there isn't any dispute on the debt but if they haven't given all the info in the POC you might be able to use that to help negotiate installments without the CCJ being awarded.

[Crispybacon]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

Hi

Particulars of claim as follows:

"The claimant's claim is for the sum of xxx.xx being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant under a regulated credit agreement made in writing under reference xxxxxxxxxxx.

The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon the Defendant pursuant to Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Claimant claims the sum of xxx.xx"

I've not put the amout in the event it identifies Mrs Crispy but its less than £1k.

Mrs Crispy is insistent she has had nothing like a default notice (she had a notice of arrears in with her statements) and definately nothing cancelling the agreement.

Thanks

Crispy

[Amethyst]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

Under the CPR you are entitled to ask for documents mentioned in their claim under part 31.14 (I think) - so you can ask for a copy of the credit agreement and a statement of the account, the terms of the agreement and the default notice - without any problem at all.

PART 31 - DISCLOSURE AND INSPECTION OF DOCUMENTS - Ministry of Justice

There is some info across the site on this - I'll dig out a link in a tic , also you seem to have turned blue, so will make you yellow again

Heres an example of a 31.14 request. Also have a read of some Howard Cohen threads - give you a good idea what you are dealing with.

[Crispybacon]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

Ok, so from my meagre understanding in the time I've had today (!) this is what I need to send to Howard Cohen. I'd appreciate any input anyone has!

Dear Howard Cohen,

Re: Santander Cards v Mrs Crispy Case No: xxxxxxx

CPR 31.14 Request

On (22nd September 2011 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

I confirm my intention to return my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I will indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of thedocument(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 The agreement.
You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2 The default notice

3 The termination notice

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track.

In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me.

Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired.

In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request.

In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

Mrs Crispy

[Amethyst]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

I think its a little OTT actually tbh. I'm a bit tired at the mo but I think take all the 'how to suck eggs bits out and just have the basic CPR request. Maybe add a couple more bits in, but as you may be wanting to have a bit of an informal discussion with them (as I mentioned earlier re consent order etc) to save getting the CCJ, then I think the heavy handed approach could be counter productive. Others might feel differently.


Dear Howard Cohen,

Re: Santander Cards v Mrs Crispy Case No: xxxxxxx

CPR 31.14 Request

On (22nd September 2011 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you through Northampton County Court.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the document's mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 The agreement and corresponding terms.

2 The default notice

3 Statement of the account

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

Yours faithfully

Mrs Crispy

[Crispybacon]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

Hi Amethyst

Thanks for looking in. Thinking about it, it probably is a little aggressive.

I'm thinking that the consent order is probably the way to go, though Howard Cohen will have already had a payment proposal by now as it would have crossed in the post. I'll put together a letter for a consent order this morning and post up for feedback.

Thanks again

Crispy

[Amethyst]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

I do think that is a good idea, considering your general overall approach to sorting out the debt problems, it seems to fit in with your way of doing things more than the agressive legal attack approach. xx

We have done some others similar - for larger amounts they tend to come back asking for a voluntary charging order.

I do think that as you have made a serious offer backed up with your IE sheet pre court they should consider a consent order - they can pick it up again if you default and get their CCJ secured that way, the amount is under £1k so a CO would be bonkers and you can refer them to the CAB report on CO's for that if they try it.

Still send the CPR too, but worded a bit less strongly just so you DO have the info later if need be, but I think negotiation is the best first step.

[Crispybacon]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

I do think that is a good idea, considering your general overall approach to sorting out the debt problems, it seems to fit in with your way of doing things more than the agressive legal attack approach. xx

We have done some others similar - for larger amounts they tend to come back asking for a voluntary charging order.

I do think that as you have made a serious offer backed up with your IE sheet pre court they should consider a consent order - they can pick it up again if you default and get their CCJ secured that way, the amount is under £1k so a CO would be bonkers and you can refer them to the CAB report on CO's for that if they try it.

Still send the CPR too, but worded a bit less strongly just so you DO have the info later if need be, but I think negotiation is the best first step.

Hi Amethyst

Thanks again for helping with this. You're absolutely right, thinking more it was an aggressive approach, I am getting defensive as it was completely unexpected!

So I'm thinking something like this:

Dear Howard Cohen,

Re: Santander Cards v Mrs Crispy Case No: xxxxxxx

I refer you to the letter sent to you dated 17th September 2011. I would like to settle this matter in an amicable way and agree a payment arrangement without the need to waste each others time or the courts.

As mentioned in my letter of the 19th September, your client, and the original creditor (Santander), had been previously advised that my circumstances have detrimentally changed and I was unable to maintain the original monthly repayments on the above account due to financial difficulty I was experiencing at the time. The original creditor was, at this time, made a monthly payment proposal I could afford, which was rejected.

I have been in discussions with the debt charity CCCS and with their guidance enclose a Personal Budget sheet which shows my total income from all sources, and my outgoings.

As you can see I have only £xxx per month left for my creditors. The offers I have made to my creditors have been calculated on a pro−rata basis, and I have written to all my creditors asking them to accept reduced payments.

Please note the majority of my creditors have already accepted this payment plan and payments have already commenced.

In view of my circumstances, please would you agree to accept a payment of £xx.xx per month until the balance of the account has been paid off.

If interest or other charges are being added to the account I would be grateful if you would freeze these so that all payments made will reduce what I owe you and assist me in managing my debt liability responsibly.

As a gesture of goodwill and intent to repay this balance I am prepared to commence the monthly payment of £xx.xx, via standing order, if you can provide account details for me to set up this payment and these payments will commence from the 1st October 2011.

I trust that this proposal is acceptable to your client as I see little benefit in taking this matter before a court.

Should you wish to proceed to court I will repeat this offer, and will also make the court aware that I have tried to settle this with the original creditor, whose response was to reject my offer and demand more money than I can afford, an approach which is direct breach of OFT guidelines on debt collection.

I would also be grateful if you could provide copies of the documentation laid out in the particulars of claim.

CPR 31.14 Request

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the document's mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 The agreement and corresponding terms.
2 The default notice
3 Statement of the account

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

I hope that your client accepts this payment proposal and await your response.

[Amethyst]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

Much much more 'crispybacon' Not saying it will work but I think it is a much nicer approach and more likely to get a 'nice' response - although this is howard cohen and they aren't the best to deal with - it feels the best way to start, and including the CPR request in the letter also means if they do get narky it is likely the judge will see your letter and that will come down in your favour - overriding objective's and all that.

[Crispybacon]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

Much much more 'crispybacon' Not saying it will work but I think it is a much nicer approach and more likely to get a 'nice' response - although this is howard cohen and they aren't the best to deal with - it feels the best way to start, and including the CPR request in the letter also means if they do get narky it is likely the judge will see your letter and that will come down in your favour - overriding objective's and all that.

Thanks Amethyst

Letter all printed off and ready to go tomorrow.

Good job I checked the online system as well as its saying the claim number or password are incorrect so can't acknowledge online at the moment.

Letter is going to be sent special delivery tomorrow so they will get it first thing on Tuesday. Will let you know if any response is forthcoming.

Best

SnV

[Crispybacon]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

Hi All

Letter sent off this morning, sent recorded delivery. Managed to get online claim system working too so all geared up for acknowledgement of service which will give us a little more time.

Will let you know if HC and Co respond to the letter sent. Thanks for all the help so far.

Best
SnV

[Crispybacon]

Re: County Court Claim Received - Santander Cards

Hi All

Well we have had a letter from HC stating that their client has accepted the offer but they are still going to go for the CCJ as security so looks like DW is going to get a pay by installments CCJ.

Being positive at least this means interest will now be frozen and no other scummy DCA (if the debt were ever sold on) would be able to demand more money without going for a redetermination.

Will let you know when we hear anything from the courts.

Best
Crispy