MBNA

[Dan-Stick]

Hi folks, hope you can help. I had a credit card from MBNA and i did not pay the instalments. It was my fault but then they sent a default notice and it was for the full balance, not what i had missed!!

I used letters from the internet - i do not acknowledge debt etc etc.

They sued me and i made a 77/78 and CRP 31 request (read here should be 18, i had not read before but 31 seemed to work).

I have sent in a questionnaire to the Court, but MBNA keep sending "these are the last applicable terms". Does it help that i now have 3 or 4 last applicable terms ? Can i say the 4th are probably not the 'right' ones because they dont know what they are doing or are they 'right' until i get a 5th ?

Also, how good should the agreement be ? if i try i can read it, but should i just wait for a crystal copy ?

thanks
DS

[Amethyst]

Re: MBNA

Hi Dan,

Have you spoken to MBNA at all regarding arranging your payments by installment ? or possibly negotiated a full a final settlement with them ? To be honest that would be the route I would chose.

From what I gather on your post the default notice asking for the full amount is okay as this was a credit card and the payments werent installments, they were minimum payments, which you then defaulted on breaching the terms of the contract between you and MBNA, thus the total amount owing is due.

MBNA have sent you a copy of the original agreement and the most recent terms applicable to the account ? If they haven't sent the original terms that were attached to the agreement then you may have an argument there, though you need to scan in and post up what exactly they have sent, and post up in the CCA forum.

This route is not a quick fix easy two step route to getting rid of the stress of the debt, it is long hard and stressful and the risk of increasing the debt through costs etc is pretty great so you should look at getting proper legal advice if you want to continue down that route. We'll also need to see the full claim and witness statements etc to get a decent picture of where you are at in the court process and what your chances of actually coming out on top might be. Has the judge actually ordered MBNA to supply you with the original terms ??

From the information you have given it is a bit difficult to give proper advice as every case is different.

Ame
xx

[basa48]

Re: MBNA

With respect Amethyst, that is not the way I read it.

MBNA typically issue Default Notices for the full amount of the debt not just the arrears. This is so prejudicial to a debtor who cannot pay the normal repayments, how is he to pay the full amount?

Also if Dan now has 3 or 4 differing T&Cs allegedly pertaining to his account he has a bloody good case for unenforceability as it is clear MBNA cannot provide the correct ones for the account.

Finally MBNAs agreements are generally unreadable. being old microfiches. This too is contrary to the Copies Regs.

[Dan-Stick]

Re: MBNA

Thanks a lot for replying / the info.

Seems a bit harsh that i miss a few instalments, and they can demand everything owed.

I dont have a scanner so i cant put images on sorry. But MBNA have sent the original terms, and in the space of a few weeks a number of letters with 'these are the last applicable terms'.

I suppose the last ones are 'right' until i get more

Unfotunately i dont think they will go for instalments because i own the house. But can i try offering them instalments without them just saying "he's offering us money, our claim is valid so we want a ccj" ?

[Garlok]

Re: MBNA

With respect Ame as well. The CCA1974/2006 lays down very specific procedures about default notices which must give correct amounts of time for rectification, it must be in a prescribed form and any attempt to demand monies not yet due (as the agreement on a card only insists on minimum payments) can be construed as attempted termination, which they CANNOT do on the back of an invalid default notice. as is clear in the ACT. They cannot enforce anything let alone go to court until such times as a valid DN has been issued and the time frame adhered to. Anything else and they have NO cause of action! There is a full thread on it on here which the OP should consider reading. Plus the Harrison v Link(MBNA) sticky provided by pt2537.

Garlok

[Angry Cat]

Re: MBNA

Hi folks, hope you can help. I had a credit card from MBNA and i did not pay the instalments. It was my fault but then they sent a default notice and it was for the full balance, not what i had missed!!

I used letters from the internet - i do not acknowledge debt etc etc.

They sued me and i made a 77/78 and CRP 31 request (read here should be 18, i had not read before but 31 seemed to work).

I have sent in a questionnaire to the Court, but MBNA keep sending "these are the last applicable terms". Does it help that i now have 3 or 4 last applicable terms ? Can i say the 4th are probably not the 'right' ones because they dont know what they are doing or are they 'right' until i get a 5th ?

Also, how good should the agreement be ? if i try i can read it, but should i just wait for a crystal copy ?

thanks
DS

What is the date of the MBNA application for credit?

How many payments did you miss?

Did you ask MBNA to freeze the interest?

[basa48]

Re: MBNA

With respect Ame as well. The CCA1974/2006 lays down very specific procedures about default notices which must give correct amounts of time for rectification, it must be in a prescribed form and any attempt to demand monies not yet due (as the agreement on a card only insists on minimum payments) can be construed as attempted termination, which they CANNOT do on the back of an invalid default notice. as is clear in the ACT. They cannot enforce anything let alone go to court until such times as a valid DN has been issued and the time frame adhered to. Anything else and they have NO cause of action! There is a full thread on it on here which the OP should consider reading. Plus the Harrison v Link(MBNA) sticky provided by pt2537.

Garlok

The problem here Garlok is that if MBNA ever suss this out they can (AFAIK) re-issue a correct DN.

MBNA usually sell on bad debts to the likes of Experto.

My MBNA account dates back to 2003 and apart from the signed application form with a very obvious 'lash-up' T&Cs on the back (which are completely unreadable) they too issued a DN for the full amount (but that was over 20 months ago).

[Garlok]

Re: MBNA

Agreed basa, but it can provide a holding position and I think that it is general consensus with which I agree that they can reissue and then and only then proceed. Any case they bring can be dismissed on these grounds as may well happen here if tackled correctly. They will then have to start all over again. However despite all the controversy over it, if they were to screw it up a second time there is aschool of thought they would have one hell of a game getting it past a judge the next time they tried.

There have been discussions abpout res judicata in these issues as well. My cynical mind tells me to not tell them any of this and just dump it on them at the last moment. Don't forget in the original Carey cases it was MBNA who backed quickly on two becuase of their own faulty paperwork.

regards
Garlok

[pompeyfaith]

Re: MBNA

Agreed basa, but it can provide a holding position and I think that it is general consensus with which I agree that they can reissue and then and only then proceed. Any case they bring can be dismissed on these grounds as may well happen here if tackled correctly. They will then have to start all over again. However despite all the controversy over it, if they were to screw it up a second time there is aschool of thought they would have one hell of a game getting it past a judge the next time they tried.

There have been discussions abpout res judicata in these issues as well. My cynical mind tells me to not tell them any of this and just dump it on them at the last moment. Don't forget in the original Carey cases it was MBNA who backed quickly on two becuase of their own faulty paperwork.

Garlok,

Or they can do what they did in my case and instead of discontinuing they can fudge the original DN and submit that as evidence and then they are on a right road to no where.

[never-in-doubt]

Re: MBNA

Garlok,

Or they can do what they did in my case and instead of discontinuing they can fudge the original DN and submit that as evidence and then they are on a right road to no where.
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Hmmmm, seems about right for MBNA! Remember we have an ex employee mod for us OTR and some of the stuff he tells us is shocking to say the least, for instance they seem very familiar with Photoshop, lets leave it at that!

[Amethyst]

Re: MBNA

and that's how you get replies to your thread Dan.

Just keep an eye that you are being advised on the case for a credit card, not for a loan. Ok.

Best of luck with the rest of the case.

[basa48]

Re: MBNA

and that's how you get replies to your thread Dan.

Just keep an eye that you are being advised on the case for a credit card, not for a loan. Ok.

Best of luck with the rest of the case.

Dan did say at the outset this was a credit card debt.

Interesting quotes from pompeyfaith and never-in-doubt. MBNA did re-issue a DN on me when I tackled the validity of the original one. The second one was compliant but they put it forward as a 'copy' of the original non compliant one, complete with original issue date and remedy date. A little misleading I think!!!

And their 'true copy' of the agreement (pre Carey) is an obvious mash-up. Photoshop rules - NOT!!!

[Garlok]

Re: MBNA

Absolutely basa,

Post No 1 states that this is a credit card debt!

regards
Garlok

[WendyB]

Re: MBNA

I think what Ame is getting at is to make sure that it continues to be advised on as a Credit card debt, in case others join in and don't realise it's a CC debt, and advise on CCA as if it were a loan debt.

[Guest]

Re: MBNA

HI
Firstly, did you borrow the mony. That is what the judge will ask you. If you say no you had better be able to show why the credits made in your name and documented in the form of your credit card withdrawels do not correspond to you.
YOu could say yes but i do not believe i signed anagreement, this could work as long as they do not have a document with your signature on it. You could say i signed a document but it did not have the terms and conditions required on it, this is very unlikely to work, i woud estimeat about 1 caee in 100 is successful using this.

Regardeing the default notice, they are perfectly entitled to issue one and demand the full amount due under it if they consider the agreement is not capable of remedy. You could argue that the default did not give you chance to remedy but you would have to show that they were incorrect in there assertion. How much were the arrears in comparison to the full amount of the liability how much time did you have to remedy prior to the notice.etc.
I know this is not what you want to hear but this us the way it is.
You may think that a better course of action would be to contact the creditor and arrange a repayment plan you can afford and get on with your life. Look around this site and see how many have tried under the circumstances you describe tried to argue unenforceablity and see how few have succeded.
Peter