Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence

**Amethyst** · 23rd December 2010, 12:53:PM

Re: Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence

Hiya, Welcome to Beagles.

Email should be fine up to and including the 26th.

Can you type up the particulars of claim from the claim form pls and give us a copy of the CPR request you have sent.

Can';t really 'knock up' an embarassed defence - you arent embarassed - you are just contending that you are unable to answer the claim without the terms.

On page 1 of the scans you have posted there is a paragraph which refers to agreeing to be bound by the BAA Worldcard terms and conditions as set out on the reverse of the agreement, so it would seem you are awaiting a copy of those, or a reconstruction of the same. If they can';t supply those you are thinking the agreement would be unenforceable.

So your defence currently then would be neither admit nor deny as you have no copy of the prescribed terms on the account, only this front page of the application. Can you post up what you have as 'they appear later than 2008' is a bit wishy washy so lets have a look pls. Either they the same as valid in 2000 or not and you'll have to prove not if not.

Usually we would suggest agreeing with the claimants on an extension to the time limits for filing a defence but I think you are a bit late for getting that agreed in writing and submitted to the court, so you need to get a defence in that doesn't go against you later if/when they do supply the terms from the reverse of the agreement.

I wouldn't go too over the top legalese wise, just state the situation, they have claimed against you and despite requesting the terms of the account they have neglected to supply you with these and you are unable to admit and deny the amounts owed or at all until this is received. You'll need to state the basic ''For an agreement to be compliant with the regulations it MUST embody within the agreement, the prescribed terms laid out in the SI1983/1553 without the prescribed terms the agreement does not conform to section 60(1) 1974 and therefore cannot be properly executed as described in section 61(1) CCA 1974. '' tho it does appear your agreement would have embodied the terms but the copies they have sent are incomplete and impossible to state whether or not all the prescribed terms were present at the time of signing the agreement (depending what these recon T&Cs you have are)

You (and your cousin) understand the risks of defending the claim (costs/stress/charge order etc wise) ? as opposed to entering an admission and offer to pay of the amount being paid under the DMP (£5 a month).

**hampster12** · 23rd December 2010, 13:19:PM

Re: Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence

Amethyst,

Thank you for your speedy reply....

In the particulars of claim section it says:-

The Claimant's claim is for £7590.40 presently due pursuant to a credit agreement entered into by the parties, full particulars of which have been supplied to hitherto.

By an agreement dated 11/08/2000 the Defendant has an account no XXXXXXXXXXX with the claimant. The Defendant has failed or delayed to adhere to the terms of the Default Notice issued by the claimant under terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The balance due as at 28/11/2010 on the said account is £7590.40

Will send CPR letter/s asap

Just starting to draft a simple defence then, will post a draft for you guys to look over, I assume about 6 or 7 main points is sufficient at this stage? Keep it short & sweet & to the point!

Thanks

**Amethyst** · 23rd December 2010, 13:33:PM

Re: Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence

Yes short, sweet, to the point and not full of over the top legalese

How does the amount of the claim compare to what your cousin expects the outstanding balance to be ?

It will likely be fast track so keep the additional costs implications of that in mind throughout.

Thanks

Ame
xx

**mystery1** · 23rd December 2010, 13:50:PM

Re: Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence

Whether or not you have a case you will find it very difficult to defend.

Embarrased Defences and the problems with them..

PT2537 who also posts here works for http://www.watsonssolicitors.co.uk/ . They might be able to help on a conditional fee arrangement basis. I would certainly at least make an enquiry if i were in your shoes. Successes

You can get in to lots of bother in a claim that size with regards to costs.

If you have a strong case that, in my opinion, is your best bet.

M1

**Amethyst** · 23rd December 2010, 14:03:PM

Re: Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence

I don't think he is at that stage yet at all, lets see the terms they HAVE sent first.

**mystery1** · 23rd December 2010, 14:14:PM

Re: Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence

Court proceedings have started.

If you have a good chance of winning you'll be told by Watsons. If not you'll be told.

In my opinion you do not wish to make mistakes and have adverse costs.

In my case v Clydesdale i wish i'd had the chance to get a firm like that on board and i doubt it would have gone on this long and taken up so much time and been so stressful. It's good learning and yes i do want to get to grips with it but i'd rather have someone who knows exactly what to do and who appears to be affordable doing it for me. I wasn't aware of this when i got stuck into this.

M1

**hampster12** · 23rd December 2010, 14:35:PM

Re: Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence

Thanks guys, sounds all very confusing indeed, I'm only helping her as she is very stressed about them suddenly taking action by serving a CC summons ,surely she shouldn't be bullied by BOS into admitting and end up with a judgment for 6 yrs, the default on her credit file is set to expiry within 3 yrs, so she will be worse off with CCJ no?

Thanks for the info on Watsons, they certainly seem to be specialists in this area but whilst it's too late to seek their advise now with holidays upon us and days running out to submit a defence, surely a simple defence could be sent to gain more time, otherwise no defence and the claimant will obtain judgment by default. Then after the defence is sent to seek guidance from Watsons with a view of them possibily acting on her behalf.

I can see she sent a CPR 18 from a template off one of the other forums and another template letter basically that the copy CCA they sent appear to be missing the prescribed T&C's as required by Section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act She has had no reply from BOS yet desite letters being sent by next day special delivery.

I can't see any thing sent regarding a CPR 31.14, does that matter or can the CPR 31.14 still be sent, or is the CPR 18 sufficient for now?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm not expert here just learing some bits by reading these forums!

Thanks for the speedy help so far!

**Amethyst** · 23rd December 2010, 15:17:PM

Re: Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence

So she sent a part 18 not a 31.14.

Any chance you have a copy of the part 18 she sent ?

I can completely understand her being annoyed that they waited so long to take court action, but the risks are pretty great at the moment for defending these claims unless you have a valid dispute on the debt (ie you don't owe it) and this being over £5k will probably be in fast track so you are probably looking at further outlay of a couple hundred on listing/application fees etc before you get to trial, then the risk of costs against you if you lost is quite high and likely to add a couple more grand to the debt.

Sometimes principles have to come secondary to common sense.

She has a copy of her signature page, a recon of the terms and conditions (some dispute whether these are those from inception? but not sure what that dispute is based on as yet) and she does owe the debt (ie. she spent the money, was paying it until change of circs then by a repayment plan) On her side is she stopped because she couldnt afford it, NOT because she sent a cca request.

If you enter an ''embarassed'' defence (it isnt really an embarassed defence though as they gave enough info to recognise the debt and she knows what it is for) its just a neither admit or deny as don't have the terms defence then it should hold things a little, but no guarantees that'll get what you want.

Personally I'd go with the honest approach, she is likely to get a CCJ anyway, chances of getting it written off are teeny.

Others have different views of course, but I'd go with

1: admit i had a card with claimant, yes it defaulted
2: cant admit or deny amounts as not enough info (statement of account) or terms, contrary to s.61 so far, sent a part 18 and they havent replied, Possibly quote what you think debt should be without interest/charges.
3: previously paid under repayment plan due to circs
4: if judgment found against could only offer £5 month

That reduces risk of a forthwith order (and subsequent charging order over her home) and should get the court to get statement of account and terms submitted by claimant so the correct amount is claimed for.

It doesnt have to be all or nothing, its how much risk she wants to take to try and avoid a CCJ.

**hampster12** · 23rd December 2010, 17:37:PM

Re: Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence

Thank you Amethyst.

I will attach a copy of the letter/s sent(CPR 18) a bit later, she doesn't own any property, lives with parents and not sure if she has any job at present, if she has I think it's only part time.

Back later ...Thanks everyone for input so far!

Bank of Scotland Summons - Urgent help with defence