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Urgent Advice needed for court case please

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  • #46
    Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

    Ok ran this up for you (please remember im not a lawyer or qualified in anyway) and it almost certainly needs some tweaking as im not "upto speed" with the CCA SI's post 2004.
    Claim Number – xx

    IN THE xx COUNTY COURT

    Filed on Behalf of Defendant
    Exhibits: x

    Between

    Nationwide– (Claimant)

    And

    Mr NS7589– (Defendant)

    DEFENCE
    of the Defendant, NS7589, Date of Birth x, Litigant in person

    1. The Defendant believes that this action is both vexatious and an abuse of the courts process with regard that the Claimant has not provided any new evidence upon which to pursue this claim.
    2. The Claimant is put to proof of all facts on which it relies in support of its claim. In particular, the Claimant is required to prove that the Credit Agreement was executed in accordance with the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the CCA 1974) and the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 and 2004??
    3. The Defendant has been in a Debt Management Plan (DMP) since X and has made monthly payments to all creditors, including Nationwide, in line with this. Nationwide has at no time formally accepted the DMP but has received and banked the monthly token payments.
    4. The Defendant’s case for the denial of the lifting of the stay of proceedings is as follows: -
    a. The Claimant has at no time during the commencement of these proceedings provided the Defendant with a true, signed, copy of the unexecuted Credit Agreement when the unexecuted Credit Agreement was sent to the Defendant for his signature, in breach of section 62(2) of the CCA 1974.
    b. The Claimant has at no time provided the Defendant with a true, signed, copy of the executed Credit Agreement and any other document referred to in it within 7 days following the making of the Credit Agreement (or at all, until during the course of these proceedings), in breach of section 63(2) of the CCA 1974.
    c. In the circumstances, the Credit Agreement was improperly-executed and is irredeemably unenforceable against the Defendant pursuant to section 127(3) of the CCA 1974.
    5. Further, the Claimant did not serve a correct Default Notice pursuant to section 87 of the CCA 1974. The Default Notices dated X & X, failed to contain the prescribed terms as laid down in statute, in breach of section 88 of the CCA 1974.
    6. The Claimant did by virtue of the letter of the 17/11/2009, from Drydens Lawyers acting as their duly authorised representative, categorically Terminate the Agreement. Whether or not the Claimant was entitled to do so it represents, as a minimum, a Negligent Breach of Contract and subsequently the Unlawful Rescission of Contract was accepted in writing by the Defendant on the X.
    7. The Claimant is now relying upon the Ruling of His Honourable Judge Waksman QC in the Manchester Test Cases. It is the Defendants position that the Claimant is misrepresenting the ruling that provides for the Reconstitution of the Agreement under a Section 78 request by a debtor to satisfy the burden of proof as required under the Civil Evidence Rules.
    8. The Claimant issued a new Default Notice on X/08/2010 but as the Agreement had already been Terminated on the 17/11/2009 this new notice is based upon the erroneous assumption that the contract endured.
    9. Under the Circumstances the Defendant does not believe the Claimant has any real prospect of successfully pursuing this claim.
    10. The Defendant respectfully requests that summary judgement be made that as a result of the Claimants inability to provide a true, signed copy, of the Agreement that the Court rules that the debt is irredeemably unenforceable pursuant to section 127(3) of the CCA 1974.
    11. Notwithstanding the above pleaded points that the Court deny permission to lift the stay.
    Statement of Truth
    I confirm that the contents of this statement of case are true.
    Signed:
    Re post 44 - I agree and you could insert that between points 10 and 11 something along those lines.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

      Whoops - thanks middenmess, I'm not that keen to become famous!:embarassed:
      ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
      Hi Paul, and a huge thank you to you for taking the time and trouble to not only read the whole thread in detail, but also to then compose the above. You have no idea how much I appreciate it - and all the other advice, questions and contributions over the last 24 hours. I will go over it and tweak as necessary, but boy it looks good to me!


      Brilliant :hail:
      Last edited by NS7589; 10th November 2010, 18:06:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

        As i said just make sure its relevant to all the SI amendments of the Act and definitely post it up for discussion before you do - there are people on here who have a much greater understanding of all the relevant laws.

        Its remains as always ONLY my OPINION and perhaps just a place to start.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

          I appreciate that, and will of course post a first bash.

          Just one question - would this be an Application for Summary Judgement with/without a hearing? Or is it an amended defence?
          ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
          Also, I don't know anything about SIs post 2004?

          Can anyoner advise please?
          Last edited by NS7589; 10th November 2010, 19:29:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

            They have kind of opened the door by trying to introduce new evidence, and by the courts instructions you have to now file an Amended Defence so it would be your amended defence, but there is nothing stopping you asking the court to SJ in your favour for the Irredeemably Unenforceable Agreement S127(3).

            You can also refer the relevant points to case law, if its reported as you did in woodchester v swayne or indeed Khorapor v Woolwich etc but need to keep it brief and you will need to do a new Witness Statement, obviously make sure they all "tie up" together with the factual points, dates etc.

            You really need to be conversant with the parts of statute and case law. Between us we have a bunch of case laws/bookmarks to point you in the right direction.

            I would say that the first words out of the Judges Mouth would be "you have had the money........" your reply should be that "that isnt what is in question Sir, what is under question is Nationwides Legal Right to recover the money. In the absence of a Signed Agreement (compliant with the CCA 1974), the only conclusion on the balance of probabilities MUST be that Nationwide has, albeit unintentionally, gifted the money to me." and perhaps something like "Nationwide, as a responsible Lender, must surely be aware of the need to retain records of all contracts and agreements - would it be acceptable if this were the case of a mortgage or any type of loan for the lender to pursue legal redress for recovery of monies absent those signed loan agreements???"

            I would also recommend that you print out the Equal Treatment Bench Book (google it) or at least parts of it and print out a page with EQUAL TREATMENT BENCH BOOK printed in the biggest letters possible so that the Judge can see it and read it upside down.

            Also dont take any "crap" like Witness Statements being introduced last minute by solicitors (i would actually refuse to accept them) and in court I would remind the Judge that it is unacceptable for the Claimant to produce anything on the day, CPR states that it must be a minimum of 3 or 7 days (depends what). And as a LiPerson you dont have the knowledge of the law to assess the impact of such, and they should be struck out forcewith.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

              Ahh, just saw your original defence/aq missed that in my original reading of the whole thread.

              I would "boil" that down to dates and short references only, take out the illness descriptions etc and use that as a "case summary".

              Also make clear mention in your defence that NW have failed to enter in the court ordered mediation process.

              Also aside from the legal proceedings have you looked into IVA or DRO options to sort out your finances - depends on your situation??

              Oh and also remember to complain to the OFT - you can email your complaint in easily, i sent mine in with the relevant PDFs as evidence at the same time and they replied a week or so later with a request to disclose information.

              And complain to the Financial Ombudsman too - costs them £500 each time - OR even use threat of this to reduce the amount or write off the debt...................

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

                This may also be of immense use http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/nbs.pdf

                It relates to a fine by the FSA on Nationwide for various breaches of principles in 2007
                e) Nationwide failed to have appropriate procedures in place to deal with an incident involving the loss of customer information and, as a result, Nationwide did not respond appropriately and in a timely manner to establish the risks to Nationwide customers of financial crime arising from the theft of a Nationwide laptop computer

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

                  FOS only costs £500 if it goes to adjudication, it isn't per complaint.

                  I think it needs to be much more personal on your circumstances, what happened and how you were disadvataged (if you were actually) by the faulty DN.

                  Thing is, you were on payplan paying £2 a month. Even had you had a correct default notice and found the £100, how were you going to keep up the minimum payments of £15 a month, with the debt continually increasing with interest, without messing up the DMP with the rest of the creditors (ie favouring this one). Once defaulted and terminated the interest and charges stopped so thats more to your benefit surely ?

                  Maybe they had no need to take the court action because you had the DMP running and committed to reviewing that as your circs improved, and you had given no indication those payments would cease where they'd need to enforce security on the debt. I'd be much more comfortable arguing that way, getting a consent order or F&F settlement than technical unproven arguments on DNs/TNs etc.

                  They claimed against you, you argued faulty DN & TN, they said ok lets backtrack and issued a new DN as if the contract had never been terminated (which is what you were asking for) and you didnt remedy and recommence contractual payments (because you can only afford £2 a month according to your DMP)

                  Woodchester isnt a one size fits all scenario by any means.

                  So thats my view, right or wrong, daft or common sense, I don't know, therefore I'll leave this to the experts and wish you luck. xx
                  #staysafestayhome

                  Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                  Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

                    Originally posted by Angry Cat View Post
                    And yes, they can issue a further DN, in order to erase mistakes made in the first Default Notice issued.
                    I still can't accept this premis as correct.

                    For starters it would mean lenders could issue DN after DN after DN until they chanced on a good one !! How does that leave the debtor wondering which of the different DNs he should pay against.

                    Also 99% of lenders terminate an agreement following a non remedied DN. Once the agreement and account is terminated there is nothing to issue a DN against.

                    Also what are the arrears on the new DN - same as old DN? or do the missed payments (arrears) accumulate between DNs.

                    If the debtor was prejudiced as the OP seems to have been (full balance instead of just arrears) and the agreement terminated following non remedy I woul say this was repudiation.

                    Clearly the creditor would never reinstate the agreement and in fact could not if the debtor accepted repudiation and refused reinstatement.

                    This is all so wrong.
                    They were out to get me!! But now it's too late!!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

                      paulb - you refer in post 46 to the stay of proceedings. Where did you see that, as I haven't understood there to be any stay? Is it explicit or implied?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

                        Sorry that was an error, somehow got it into my head that the original proceedings had been stayed but in fact they had just "sat there" doing nothing pending mediation process.

                        You may want to ask them to Strike out the proceedings instead.

                        Basa, i think, technically, they can issue a new DN until such time as they terminate the agreement - i agree it is still a farce with regards to the Debtor knowing what he should or shouldnt do........ and would surely throw doubt onto the OC and how inept they are.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

                          Thanks all for your input, makes interesting reading. Have also been reading around some threads to get a feel for things.

                          I'm not really sure where to go with this case.

                          When I first entered the DMP best part of 2 years ago my intention was not to avoid paying any of my creditors. The DMP seemed like the responsible thing to do, as I didn't fancy the alternative (b'rptcy).

                          All of my creditors have accepted the DMP to date, albeit some reluctantly. Some of them (funnily the ones with the biggest debts) have been great about it. Others were aggressive initially but I have staved them off with CCA requests, to which they responded they couldn't comply and could not take me to court.

                          For now.....

                          But I have kept paying all of them thru the DMP, as I acknowledge my debt.

                          The only exception to this has been N'wide. I acknowledge I have a legitimate debt toward them. Like all the others I have made payments to them thru the DMP. Unlike all the others however, N'wide have totally ignored the reality of my financial circumstances (of which they are fully aware thru Payplan); once I defaulted on the account, they didn't demand the arrears - they almost immediately demanded the full balance on the account. And this is what they've stuck to, taking me to court because I can't repay the full
                          balance.

                          I have never said that I don't owe them the money. All I have asked is that they be reasonable, take into account my current circumstances, and accept whatever payments I am temporarily able to make, UNTIL SUCH TIME AS I AM ABLE TO REPAY THE DEBT IN FULL.

                          But they simply have refused to. It appears to me they have stuck rigidly to the letter of the law in enforcing their rights, whilst ignoring the spirit of the law. (Why? I suspect to get a CO on my prop in order to guarantee they'll get their money back?)

                          In doing so they also seek to multiply the debt by adding legal fees.

                          Now, what I want is JUSTICE. I'm not looking to screw them. I just want them to be reasonable, and if they won't, I want to force them to be reasonable. I haven't taken them to court, they have taken me to court, not because they had to but because they chose to. In order to do so, they have had to rely upon the existing legislation, such as Sec87 DN, the TN, the CCA, etc.

                          Now if, in taking this course of action - invoking the letter of the law to justify their approach - they have screwed up and prejudiced me, it seems right to me that I should use every and any piece of legislation available to defend my position. If through their own actions they no longer have a legal right to the whole debt, I'm comfortable with that. My moral obligation to pay the debt has long since been negated by the immorality of their conduct towards me, IMHO.

                          Also that I should bring to the court's attention their general conduct in chasing the debt, which has been, at best, insensitive.

                          My dilemma is, what is it going to achieve? If I could get them to agree to a repayment plan of, say £20 a month with no costs/interest etc added on, I would probably do it, just to get them off my back. I don't want a CCJ + massive costs (obviously!) or CO if possible, and there are too many conflicting (though well intentioned) opinions for me as a LIP to have any idea what my chances of success are if I continue to defend the case. Then again, neither do I want them to ride roughshod over me, as they have done, and get away with it.

                          All a bit rambling, I know, but that's where I'm at a the moment.

                          BTW if anyone knows a good free barrister please let me know lol.

                          Opinions welcomed!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

                            [/Quote]
                            My dilemma is, what is it going to achieve? If I could get them to agree to a repayment plan of, say £20 a month with no costs/interest etc added on, I would probably do it, just to get them off my back. I don't want a CCJ + massive costs (obviously!) or CO if possible, and there are too many conflicting (though well intentioned) opinions for me as a LIP to have any idea what my chances of success are if I continue to defend the case. Then again, neither do I want them to ride roughshod over me, as they have done, and get away with it. [/Quote]

                            Thats the $64,000 question, that only you and you alone can decide!

                            And there are no free barristers! (pro-bono exempt)

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

                              I know its up to me to decide. Point is, I want to make an informed decision, that's the difficult bit (without counsel). I'm nearer to it now than when I joined this site, so that's good! But time is running out....

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Urgent Advice needed for court case please

                                Unfortunately i agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.

                                If you owed millions of pounds to the tax man, they would do a deal - but if you only owe a few thousand the "pooch is screwed"

                                Only you can decide what to do, there are "no win no fee" sols out there, but tbh they will only take "open & shut" cases where they know they are going to win. Anything else may be a "waste" of their time...........

                                To give you an idea of what i have had to come to grips with to be "reasonably" conversant with the law is
                                File 1 - complete print outs of CCA1974, SI1983 Agreements/Termination/Total Charge for Credit, passing review of 2004 amendments and other amendments plus Statute of Limitations.
                                File 2 - Case Law, at least a dozen cases printed and reviewed and many more reviewed where possible
                                File 3 - All my "evidence" filed/scanned/printed
                                File 4 - All their details/POC/Evidence ect filed.

                                Printed out the relevant sections of The Equal Treatment Bench Book
                                Reviewed most and printed many of the CPR rules and procedures

                                Discovered that every LiP is entitled to a McKenzie Friend (my father in this case)

                                Presented to the court a letter from Psychiatrist that im still suffering with Depression, some mania and Suicidal Tendancies
                                Im also atm Agorophobic (can only manage a few miles from home) and suffering with Paranoia so travelling to the CCourt was an ordeal in itself.

                                I would suggest that you contact the local law society to you - there are often charities that have legal counsel with specific areas of expertise that may be able to assist you (or even represent you)

                                whatever you do decide to do know that there are people who will assist you as much as possible

                                Comment

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