Arrow Global Court Claim

[Maintopman]

Hello. I have been chased by solicitors called Shoosmiths representing a company called Arrow Global for a debt they claim to have purchased from Barclaycard - however, I have heard nothing from Barclaycard themselves, with whom I did indeed have a card. I have never heard of Arrow before. This has got as far as them starting proceedings in the Bulk Court; I have received a Claim Form, sent back the acknowledgement of service and intend to disagree with the claim in full, also asking for the case to be transferred to my local court, all of which I have to do this week to be on time. The original date of service was 9th October; the acknowledgement of service reached them before 23rd October.

Now - I had also written to Arrow saying I had never heard of them, acknowledging NO debt to them, then the 'standard' letter requiring a true copy of the alleged agreement, a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above agreement they allege exists etc. and stating their obligation under S189 of the CCA 1974… etc. – with a £1 PO enclosed. They just wrote back now returning my £1 and saying:

“… We do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute. However, we are willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested. We will now process your request for documentation from the creditor and will revert in due course.

We confirm that all collection activity will be suspended pending provision of the documents. …”

My question is: I guess I should still get the court defence document, and also the request for transfer to my local court, back to the bulk court this week? And state in my defence that I dispute the full amount claimed, that I acknowledge no debt to Arrow (who are indeed the claimant on the form), that Arrow have been unable to provide any documentation referring to the debt which they allege to exist and indeed say that they themselves state that they do not accept that they are a creditor of mine.

Can anyone comment as to whether this would be the right way to act and offer any help or words of advice or warning?

[WendyB]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

Well if they are the Claimant then why are they saying they don't own the debt? And why do they have Shoosmiths acting for them?

Think we need a bit more background on this please.

Do you actually owe Barclaycard any money?
did you try and get it sorted with Barclaycard?
Have you ever had any prior correspondence from Arrow before the claim, if so, what?
How much is the alim for?
and can you scan in or post up the exact POC please.

[Maintopman]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

WendyB, thanks for replying so promptly.

I don’t know why they said they are not the creditor when they are indeed the claimant but that is indeed what they said in their letter of 20th October just received, quoted verbatim in my first posting, exactly to the letter, referring to my demand relating to S189 of the CCA 1974 (my ‘template letter’ culled from another site): “… We do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute.”

Yes, I do owe Barclaycard some money, though the amount was already in dispute due to unwarranted charges. The background was that I fell ill and was in hospital abroad (Paris) a couple of years ago (August 2008), contacted them and a couple of other cards and regular payees (e.g. utility suppliers) to tell them that, and indeed in the Barclaycard case proposed paying the lot off (less the unjustified charges) by a refinancing, secured on my house - which at the time I was in a good position to do, with a sound credit record. However, fairly shortly after I had proposed that, they simply posted a default notice with the credit agencies without any proper reply to me, so by that act completely destroying the possibility of my getting the proposed refinancing loan then in progress and just short of acceptance; in effect, they rejected my proposal of settlement and scuppered my possibility of prompt settlement, though without writing to say so. They hadn’t even acknowledged the proposal.

Why Shoosmiths are acting is, I suppose, to be the solicitors engaged by Arrow to sue me – but only supposition. Otherwise – dunno!

No correspondence with Arrow before the claim. I got their address from the Court document I received to send them (the first time of my contacting them) a letter requiring a true copy of the alleged agreement, a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above agreement they allege exists etc. and stating their obligation under S189 of the CCA 1974… etc. That is the only one I have sent them and their reply the only I have received.

The claim is for a total of £4913.70 claimed - plus £80.00 Solicitor’s costs and £85 Court fee, so bringing it to £5078.70, just over the magic £5000 small claims limit, but the principal is not when the court and legal costs are knocked off, being a basic £4913.70 - and quite a bit less still when the claimed unjustified charges are deducted too.

What does ‘POC’ mean? The Court Claim Form? I can scan that or anything else to you tomorrow, including Arrow’s recent letter (20th October).

I am inclined to write back to Arrow telling them they cannot so reject my justified demand, returning the £1 payment to them again, but am not sure about that – perhaps not until I have responded with my defence to the Court and requested a change of jurisdiction. But I am a bit out of my depth here.

Thanks again and best regards, the Maintopman

[WendyB]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

P.O.C = Particulars of Claim what have they stated are the reasons for the calim? It should be on the front of the N1 form they have issued. If you aknowlege the claim by the 14th day, that will give you a fuirther 14 days to submit your defence.

[Maintopman]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

Sorry, posted twice in error, so deleted

[WendyB]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

I think you've duplicated a post here.....read my post above.....

[Maintopman]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

Automerged Doublepost deleted again

[WendyB]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

Well, there are people more experienced to give advice than me, I'll flag this up for them.

In the meantime, have you received any notice of assignment from Arrow?
Any default notice?
Agreed any sort of payment plan

I know you've already said you've had no previous orrespondence from them but just checking. I think you will need to send a CPR request (that's asking them to disclose stuff under CPR (which I an never remember what that means, I think it's Court Protocol Rules, or it could be Claim, or I may be completely wrong lol). Anyway, there's loads of CPR sections and I'm not sure which part you'd have to rely on....

And Wednesday is cutting it a bit fine to get a defence sent by but we'll do our best. First things first you need to do the CPR request I think so I'll get someone on the case to point you in the right direction.

[Maintopman]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

Sorry, WendyB, don't know why that posted up twice!

Yes, the Court got my acknowledgement on 22nd, October, in time (within the 14 days).

OK - yes, I read that extra 14 days on the form. That gives me until Sat 6th Nov, but I shall be abroad then, leaving this Weds 27th October, so really need to get this mailed by this Weds am.

1. The claimant's claim is for the sum of 4913.70 being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated agreement between the defendant and Barclaycard plc (no. xxxxxxxxxx) and assigned to the claimant on 25/06/2010, notice of which has been provided to the defendant.

2. The defendant has failed to make payment I accordance (sic) with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

3. The claimant claims the sum of 4913.70.

4. C has complied, as far as is necessary, wi the pre-action conduct practice direction. Number

Signed etc.

(all sic)

This is verbatim and as spelled, with only the insertion of my (sic)s and the xxxxxs for the number.

Regards, Maintopman

[WendyB]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

Oh good, I see Amethyst is reading the thread, she's much more clued up on this than me
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
and the posts are all com,ing up out of order now so not making any sense, can you move them round Ame?It looks like I've replied before he posted lol, and I know I'm good but i ain't that good as to be telepathic

[Maintopman]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

Thanks, Wendy, very much appreciated. The last one above is the correct version of the previous posting!! (getting tired now).

Default notice was ages ago, from Barclaycard, as stated.

Only one letter was sent out to Arrow from me, requiring a true copy of the alleged agreement, a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above agreement they allege exists etc. and stating their obligation under S189 of the CCA 1974… etc.

Previous correspondence from Arrow – no, only from Shoosmiths their solicitors.

The only statement of assignment is, so far as I can see, in a letter from Shoosmiths dated 11th October 2010 stating that Arrow ‘purchased the above debt’ and attaching a Notice of Assignment on Arrow letterhead dated 16th August 2010 and mentioning Shoosmiths – but this was certainly not received in August or since, until now. I would not ignore such a missive. The first time I saw it was attached to Shoosmiths‘s letter of 11th October.

Regards, the Maintopman

[Amy]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

Have a read of this guide by Curly, specifically post #11 for your particular set of circumstances Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum and send the letter in that post if you have not already done so.

Given that you say you have charges on this account, do you know how much of the balance is made up of charges? Have you thought about entering a counterclaim for these?

[Amethyst]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

So you have to have a defence in tmw.

The claims states '' Barclaycard plc (no. xxxxxxxxxx) '' is that number your Barclaycard account number ?

Does the amount scan with what you defaulted on your Barclaycard (plus a few charges etc) ?

You have a copy of the NoA sent to you and Default Notice from Barclaycard but you don't have a copy of the orginal agreement and terms as yet ? They are getting a copy for you, but won't be in time for the defence . so you need to get an extension of the defence - read cPR 15.5, you'll have to get solicitors agreement and put it in writing to the court today. You cant defend/admit without the correct paperwork.


edit: oo also - can you put up a copy of your 31.14 request for disclosure ta

[Maintopman]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

Thanks, Amy, very good link, that, lots of good stuff there. Yes, I wrote to Barclaycard ages ago about the charges, but no reply – however, it’s only a few hundred in charges, not the major part.

Amethyst, thanks for coming on here. Yes, 'xxxxxx' is the Barclaycard account card number.

Yes, approximately tallies apart from the charges etc.

Yes, a copy of the Arrow NoA dated 16-08-2010 received for the first time with the Shoosmiths solicitors’ letter dated 11th October 2010 and a Default Notice in April 2009 from Barclays (rather than them accepting my proposals to pay it off shortly in full less the charges, at that time, which was about to happen, as described earlier).

No copy of the original agreement, which I have requested. Arrow Global returned my £1 fee and say (letter dated 20th October 2010): "… We do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute. However, we are willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested. We will now process your request for documentation from the creditor and will revert in due course.

We confirm that all collection activity will be suspended pending provision of the documents…"

Note they, Arrow (letter of 20th October) deny their being ‘the creditor’ and refer to as a third party as that although Arrow is indeed the Claimant on the court document. Have they not got themselves into a bit of a knickertwist here? Is it not a defence to state that Arrow Global deny that they are the creditor and supply their letter to that effect??

Yes, I read CPR 15.5 now, thanks –

“(1)The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.
(2)Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.”

But surely I have no time to do this now – should I phone Shoosmiths Solicitors today? I am usually loath to contact any of these people by phone, preferring both to lay a paper trail and avoid haranguing.

The '31.14 request for disclosure' – do you mean by this my letter to Arrow requesting the Agreement? Should I post that here? Or is this another letter which I should have sent or should do now? Should this, if a new one as I think it is, be mailed now to the solicitors or to the claimant? I have found a template 31.14 letter on the internet.

OK, I have in fact until 6th November to get the defence back to the Court, in fact, but I would have to mail it from abroad without proof or guarantee of delivery and shall not be able to receive any more letters between tomorrow morning and then. I shall be away between tomorrow midday-ish and 9th November.

Thanks very much for help, Amethyst and Amy, and regards.

[Amethyst]

Re: Arrow Global Court Claim

My bad, too many cases, I thought you had already sent a 31.14 request as they mentioned the agreement in the claim.

Put one together now, forget excessive overbearing templates though, have a look at the relevant CPR 31.14 and send them a request for information you need (the agreement) that is mentioned on the claim form, also ask them to agree an extension forthwith so you can inform the court today explaining your holiday.

They are indeed not the creditor and I assume they have absolute assignment as they are bringing the claim. Under s 78 they dont have to supply the agreement (only barclaycard do) but under cpr 31.14, as they are relying on the agreement to bring the claim, they dohave to supply it.

Personally I think I would ring the solicitors explain the shortness of time and ask for an email addy so you can get this sorted by tmw.