Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

**Amethyst** · 9th October 2010, 15:36:PM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

You need to get in touch with the Land Registry on Monday, call them and they will tell you what you / your neighbours need to do to get the erroneous charge removed from their home, and also tell Morgans in writing of the error so you have the cock up documented when you go to court to defend the final charging order. There should be details on the Land Registry letters for your neighbour to contact and outline the mistake and ask for the charge to be removed.

Is the hearing in December for the application for permission to appeal ?

How much was the judgment against you for ?
After the Judgment I believe enforcement should be held until after the appeal applications have been dealt with, if the original judgment was forthwith then Morgans are able to apply an interim charge on your home (to stop you selling up and vanishing with their money while you wait for court processes etc) but have to go to court to get it finalised.
From your side you apply for redetermination (N244 I think) of the judgement to an installment order...however because the original judgment is forthwith that has no effect on Morgans ability to obtain a charging order. However with an installment determination they couldnt force a sale as long as installments are paid.

**Bayley** · 9th October 2010, 23:49:PM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

Amethyst, thank you so much for your post - very much appreciated!!

Below in caps are responses to some of your points/queries. Also, more info from me.

Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

You need to get in touch with the Land Registry on Monday, call them and they will tell you what you / your neighbours need to do to get the erroneous charge removed from their home, and also tell Morgans in writing of the error so you have the cock up documented when you go to court to defend the final charging order. There should be details on the Land Registry letters for your neighbour to contact and outline the mistake and ask for the charge to be removed.

Is the hearing in December for the application for permission to appeal ? NO, THIS IS FOR MAKING THE INTERIM CHARGING ORDER ABSOLUTE. ON BOTH FLATS.

How much was the judgment against you for ? ABOUT £11,000
After the Judgment I believe enforcement should be held until after the appeal applications have been dealt with, if the original judgment was forthwith then Morgans are able to apply an interim charge on your home (to stop you selling up and vanishing with their money while you wait for court processes etc) but have to go to court to get it finalised. AS ABOVE, THEY'VE SENT ME THE INTERIM CHARGING ORDER AND ARE GOING FOR THE ABSOLUTE IN DECEMBER
From your side you apply for redetermination (N244 I think) of the judgement to an installment order...however because the original judgment is forthwith that has no effect on Morgans ability to obtain a charging order. However with an installment determination they couldnt force a sale as long as installments are paid. IS IT TOO LATE TO ASK FOR AN INSTALLMENT DETERMINATION?

What I don't understand is how Morgan's could so misread the LR records. On their application they have ticked 'joint owner' and 'this is shown by the Office Copy Land Register entries attached'.

On the LR 'official copy of register of title' (looks like the sols asked for it in July, before the date of the Order giving me permission to appeal within the 7 days I wasn't at home so couldn;t reply), about one month after the hearing. There is a Title Number that seems to apply to the property as a whole.

In Section B, Proprietorship Register, Title Absolute, I and my flat are listed and then my neighbours and their flat are listed. The Flats are described differently. In para 2, it refers to some crazily low price paid in 2006, without stipulating which flat it is referring to. Para 3 has 'Restriction: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.

Section C lists the Schedules of notices of leases, my flat has a title or lease numbe' and my neighbour's flat has totally different one - both are different from the property Title Number.

I will call the LR, but I hope there isn't a technicality get out for Cabot/Morgan here. Can it be open to interpretation?

I don't have my appellant's notice to hand - will have it either tomorrow or Monday. I THINK it was something along the lines of having to obtain legal representation.

I'm now worried that another Cabot case I lost a few days later will get the same treatment (it's a long story, triggered by getting ditched without warning by no win/ no fee sols 3 days prior to these hearings).

Isn't there some way to negotiate a payment plan with these monsters? There isn't any equity in the property, so a forced sale wouldn't help them. If they force me to lose my flat, they could also be forcing me to go bankrupt and then they'd really get nothing!!

Also, might they be breaching the Data Protection Act here, by involving my neighbours and passing our information around?

Many, many thanks for all your help!

**Amethyst** · 10th October 2010, 07:43:AM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

Yes I read your thread on CAG (have quoted a bit of it ref NOA being signed by the wrong assignor to someone in a similar position actually lol). Didnt realise you had two losses

bugger.

Land Registry stuff really isnt within my knowledge so I would certainly suggest calling them. I don't know the terms of your leasehold or anything or if the freeholder has incorrectly registered the seperate parts etc.

Obviously your neighbours dont want to attend a hearing and I understand you must be feeling quite ****ty about it all. Call the LR on Monday is all I can suggest they will have seen similar before so should be able to assist.

Yes you can still apply for installments - you apply to vary the forthwith order, however because you had forthwith originally they can still get a CO over your property so it wont stop that, but it would stop any attempt at a sale order (unless you agree installments then stop paying them).

Speak to the LR Monday then we can go from there cant we. And keep your neighbours in the loop with everything. xx

**Bayley** · 10th October 2010, 11:00:AM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

Thanks so much, Amethyst.

Will update tomorrow, after speaking with the LR.

**Hope** · 10th October 2010, 18:47:PM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

Apart from the above, there is the fact that Morgans have subjected you to extreme embarrassment by letting your neighbours know your business. This is out of order and a complaint to the solicitors regulatory authority should be made.

You also need to inform the court of their incompetence.

**Amethyst** · 10th October 2010, 19:22:PM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

Morgan's didn't - the Land Registry did, (dont think anyone but the LR have been in touch with the neighbours at all?) I think this is much more likely to be a LR (or freeholder) cock up than a Morgans cock up. But see what the LR say tmw.

**Bayley** · 10th October 2010, 20:00:PM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

Actually, my neighbours received a letter from Morgan's, enclosing the interim charging order.
It's a done deal - somehow, Morgan's persuaded the LR to issue the charge.

Have been going through my papers on this - when I rec'd an Order from the Court, advising me of a hearing on this Claim in December, they didn't enclose Morgan's application or the interim charging order (stamped as 'received in August' by Morgan's). It states that 'the application will be heard on September XX when a judge will decide whether the charge created by this order whould continue (with or without modification) or should be discharged.

The Schedule
The address of the land or property charged is XXXX the title to which is registered at HM Land Regsitry.....under title number XXXXX (WHICH APPEARS TO BE THE NUMBER FOR THE WHOLE PROPERTY, BUT THERE ARE SEPARATE LEASE NUMBERS FOR EACH FLAT).

Important Notice
Not less than 21 days before the above mentioned hearing date, the judgment creditor must serve a copy of this order, the application notice and any documents filed in support of it on:
1. the judgment debtor
2. other creditors
3. co-owner
A Certificate of Service must be file not less than 2 days before the above-mentioned hearing date or filed at the hearing, such certificate to be fully completed and have attached to it copies of all documents served, including the application and the Interim Charging Order.

My reading of the above is that I should have been informed of the September hearing and served with the application.

I received NOTHING except a notice of a hearing in December to make the interim order absolute!!

WHAT are these people up to???

Thanks for all your help!!

**Amethyst** · 11th October 2010, 06:19:AM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

Yes you should have been notified of the hearing. If Morgans have filed a certificate of service they have lied, its not like you would forget you received it, or your neighbours wouldnt have said something if they had received a letter with a hearing date on ! That is worse Morgans actually seperately writing to your neighbours as that means they are absolutely aware it is a seperate property.

See what the LR say then we can put all this in your witness statement preparation for the final charge hearing. Sounds like they have taken you as the freeholder, but then why write to the leaseholders.

**Bayley** · 11th October 2010, 08:27:AM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

Have just spoken to the LR - the interim charge is against the FREEHOLD title, which I jointly own with my neighbours.

The LR has not yet rec'd the charge.

Maybe I should take my interest out of the freehold?

I think I should be filing something at court to stop this. But what????

**Amethyst** · 11th October 2010, 08:37:AM

You havent mentioned that you own half freehold on the entire building as well as the leasehold on one flat.

In which case Morgans have acted correctly.

If any freeholder gets a charge against property they own it would be notified to the joint freeholders.

Can I ask why, if you both (you and your neighbours) own the freehold, why do you have leasehold as well on seperate parts ?

Surely it would be better to have a tenants in common freehold ? Or are your two flats not the only two and only you two have bought jointly the freehold of part of the building ? (is that even possible?) I don't know much about this - basic info on I want to buy the freehold of my building. What do I do? - was that the situation ?

You need to defend the charging order, but lets work out the actual position first.

you'll defend by entering a witness statement into court.

The charge will just be over your half of the freehold.

**Bayley** · 11th October 2010, 08:56:AM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

You havent mentioned that you own half freehold on the entire building as well as the leasehold on one flat.

In which case Morgans have acted correctly.

If any freeholder gets a charge against property they own it would be notified to the joint freeholders.

Can I ask why, if you both (you and your neighbours) own the freehold, why do you have leasehold as well on seperate parts ?

Surely it would be better to have a tenants in common freehold ? Or are your two flats not the only two and only you two have bought jointly the freehold of part of the building ? (is that even possible?) I don't know much about this - basic info on I want to buy the freehold of my building. What do I do? - was that the situation ?

You need to defend the charging order, but lets work out the actual position first.

you'll defend by entering a witness statement into court.

The charge will just be over your half of the freehold.

Thank you, Amethyst. We (my neighbours and I) rearranged the freehold a few years ago (I was the freeholder and they needed a longer lease so.....). I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of how all this property law works - so, i don't have an answer as to why we are on leaseholds (only 2 flats in the bldg). The sol that did it had a nervous breakdown during the transaction and we were, ultimately, just glad when it was over.

As the interim charging order hasn't actually arrived at the LR, is there any point in trying to block it? In which case, I'd have to move super quickly, I think.

Many thanks again!!

**Amethyst** · 11th October 2010, 09:18:AM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

lol I think your solicitor might have got something wrong, as I cant see why you would both be both freeholder and leaseholder on the same property. You should be freeholders as tenants in common. I assume the seperate leaseholds make you tenants in common anyway - (ie they can sell their bit without any deference to you) anyway like I say I dont know. This is an interesting article though if you ever decide to getting around to sorting it out Practical Conveyancing - Easing the way? The implications of leasehold and freehold mergers on easement - don't just give up your freehold though.

Regardless it does mean Morgans have done nothing wrong, you are joint owner of the property with your neighbours and as such all joint owners on a property are notified of any legal charge put, or intended to put over that property.

It is standard for an interim charge to be placed pending the outcome of the application for a charging order. The final charging order is what you need to defend and avoid and thats what the hearing in nov is for.

So you need to get together a witness statement to defend it, or at very least ensure it is only reg'd against your half and get an installment order on top.

**Bayley** · 28th November 2010, 18:29:PM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

Hi Amethyst,

Thanks for your input, invaluable as ever!!

The hearing is next week. I've returned the form to the Land Registry, saying I want to defend it and pointing out they're misquoted the interim charging order number.

Is is a Witness Statement or a Defence I need to file with the court. I know I don't have a lot of time, but I have been dealing with THREE other potentially disastrous cases and had to prioritise.

Here are the facts -

I lost a case (well, two cases, but so far no charging order from that) to Cabot this summer and the DJ declined permission to appeal. So, asked for an N460 and requested an appeal. While I was away for one week this summer, I rec'd an order stating time to seek permission to appeal would be extended for one week (whilst I was away). I called the court and was advised to write to the DJ and explain what happened and asking for an extension. I did. No reply. I resent the letter, Special Delivery and, again, no reply.

Next I hear is the interim charging order.

The freehold they have put the interim charging order on has no intrinsic value and my flat is in negative equity.

Is there any point in fighting this order and mentioning all of the above? If so, how? With an N244 and Witness Statement or with a Defence?

I'd be so grateful for any advice - have to make a move within the next two days.

Thanks in advance!!

Best,
Bayley

**Bayley** · 28th November 2010, 18:35:PM

Re: Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!

For what it's worth, this is from the OFT website this week:
Charging orders

The OFT has a duty to protect the interests of consumers by ensuring the fitness of those holding or applying for consumer credit licences. The OFT also has a duty to monitor social and commercial developments relating to the provision of credit and related activities. The OFT has monitored the use of 'charging orders' as a method of enforcing judgment debts, where the debts originally arose under regulated consumer credit agreements.

What is a charging order?

A charging order is one of a number of enforcement methods available to creditors to ensure that judgment debts are satisfied. A charging order can only be applied for where a court judgment has already determined that a debtor owes money to the creditor, and payment under that judgment is not forthcoming. The original debt may have arisen under a consumer credit agreement. However, charging orders can also be used to enforce the payment of monies after a judgment in other types of action.

Once a charging order is obtained a 'charge' can be placed on the asset specified in the order. This will usually be the debtor's property. When the debtor decides to sell the property the amount due is repaid out of the proceeds. Charging orders do not require debtors to sell their property. However, the creditor can make a further application to the court requesting that an order should be granted to enable the property to be sold sooner to repay the debt. This is called an 'order for sale'. It appears that this currently happens in a very small proportion of cases.

22 November 2010 update

OFT acts on concerns about charging orders

The OFT announced that it had imposed requirements on Alliance and Leicester Personal Finance Limited, American Express Services Europe Limited, HFC Bank Limited (part of the HSBC Group) and Welcome Financial Services Limited (part of Cattles plc) to address concerns about the way some consumer debts are enforced.

Problems uncovered by the OFT's investigation were specific to each business, as set out in the individual requirements, but across the sector they include a failure to consider the customer's circumstances or proportionality before asking the court to put a charging order in place; not building adequate checks into the lender's decision-making process; and also applying substantial charges for referring cases to a debt collection agency. In a minority of cases, lenders sent oppressive and/or misleading correspondence.

The four companies subject to this announcement have co-operated fully with the OFT during the investigation and have each made changes to address the specific problems identified within their business, as set out in the requirements. The OFT is working to ensure that the whole banking industry uses charging orders and other debt enforcement tools responsibly.

Further details of the requirements can be found in press release 119/10 - OFT acts on concerns about charging orders.

Morgan's put an Interim charging order on my property - AND MY NEIGHBOUR'S!!