Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- charging order/installments

[roygoodbeat]

1. Big Panic. I have just received out of the blue a notice of hearing in 7 days time at my local county court.

Brief History:
Loan Amount: £32,000
Due to loss of income, I fell into arrears with Tesco Finance. I wrote to them to advice them of this and that I would resume some form of payment once I started employment.

This was followed by the usual threatening letters.

I then wrote to Tesco and offered them payments of £50 per month as that is all I could afford. I continued to pay them but....

Incasso then got involved and the next thing I new I received court papers. I admitted the debt and returned the forms.

I received a CCJ. I appealed to make instalments and the court granted that I would have to pay £27.12 per month. That was about 4/5 months ago and I have been paying £28 per month by standing order ever since.

However, out of the blue I received a notice of hearing at my local county court. I had not received any correspondence from either the court or Incasso. I spoke to the court who have advised that the creditor is not happy with the amount being paid and would like to have it reviewed.

Can anyone advise me of what I am likely to expect. I have heard all sorts of horror stories about charges against the house. This is jointly owned with my partner. We have just about managed to keep up to date with our mortgage and secured loan payments against the house. There are 5 of us living in a 2 bedroom house with little equity. I work in excess of 60 hours a week whilst my partner works nights (As well as looking after children)

My partner has said that if anything happens to the house, then its over between us so I stand not only to lose my family, but it could also effect my children. She went mad when the notice of hearing had come through as we were both under the impression that it had been sorted by the court. (I think she thinks I am hiding something from her)

I am not prepared for my family to be affected. We have fought so hard over the last 18 months to keep our heads above water.

I need help and advice! (Please)

[Amethyst]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

Welcome to Beagles

1st Question - when you returned the admission from the court papers did you return it to the court or to incasso.

Well done for getting the installmets redetermined to an affordable level. Did you attend or was it just done in writing ?

Yes Incasso's application will be to apply for a charging order to your home. They will probably be asking for a higher amount per month installments or complaining that £28 a month isnt enough and they need security. They don't, and they should really only apply for a charging order if you miss a payment (which you havent done) See

However if you have an instalment order in place, you must turn up to the court, provide proof of this and also that your repayments are up to date.
This is based on a case called Mercantile Credit Co Ltd v Ellis in 1987, which shows on precedent that a charging order should only be made if the payments on a judgment are in arrears or you were ordered to pay the lot in one lump sum and failed to do so.

. Once they have a charging order if you miss a payment they can apply for a sale order (which is exceedingly unlikely they would be awarded as you have kids and theres other creditors before them anyway).

Show your partner this forum (it helps and you can work on it together and nothings hidden away or mysterious then)

Okay, when is the hearing ? (okay read properly Ame ! in 7 days - what date exactly ? bit short notice isnt it)

We can put together a witness statement to get into court asking for payments to remain the same (assuming your IE sheet shows that is still appropriate) and to argue against a charging order. You SHOULD have had a copy of Incassos application to the court, so ask the court for a copy.

Will need to list mortgage and secured creditors too and approx amounts. Also current value and mortgage outstanding on the property.

They may not even have requested a Charging order in the paperwork so really don't panic... and if it helps, I've had a CO on my house for the last 4 years without any problems.

Have a read of this which might help - thinsg are less scary when you understand them more Debt Factsheets - Charging orders in the county court

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

The paperwork went straight to the court where I made an offer, with breakdown of income. The court decided that it would be for £27.12. I have paid £28 since the order by standing order. This was done in writing.

When I spoke to the court this morning, they stated that it was only to review the payments, however I am sure that they may bring this up during the hearing.

The notice of hearing was dated Friday 24th September and is scheduled for Monday 4th October. (I had no other notification that the case had been transferred to my local court)

I am prepared to allow an annual review, for payments to go up with inflation (Subject to affordability). A charging order is not an option as I want to keep my family together.

I will ask the court for a copy of the application.

In terms of debts, the mortgage is around £111,000. I also have a secured loan which is about £31,000. The property in its current condition is about £145,000. We need new windows, heating system, the celler needs damp proofing and the kitchen needs replacing and insullating. (Been trying to save up to get this done as our build in cooker and hob need condeming)

[Amethyst]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

lol sounds like you live in my old house

I'll put a draft together later on, let me know if the court let you have a copy of the application.

4 months isnt normally long enough for a review, its usually 6 or 12 months, so I would tend to agree with you on the CO front.

On the installment judgment after redetermination, does it mention permission to apply for a CO ?

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

Just got off the phone to Incasso. They called me after I left a message at the weekend.

They have advised me that their client is not happy with the decision and they appealled this within the 16 days under cpr rules, back in March. They claim that it is not until now that our local court has granted a hearing????

They have advised that they want a review. Their instructions are that they would like it repaid over 5 years (Which is shorter than the original loan term) or they may seek a charging order on the property.

I advised them I am more than happy to review this annually but a charge order is not an option. I also advised them that I cannot increase my payments. So, if the review does not go their way, they will seek a charging order. It does not mention that on the judgement.

[Amethyst]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

Ok we know what we're up against, don't speak to them on phone again now, just raises the blood pressue.

The Loan was for £32k originally ? and unsecured. how long was the original term ?
What date was it taken out, what were the contractual installments, and approx how many payments made before defaulting.

They definately dont have a hope of getting it to less than the original term, they do have a hope of the CO but we can defend against it. We will also have to offer something like 6 monthly reviews for if your circumstances improve etc.

Do you have the original loan documentation ? and the original claim form from the court ? (and can you scan them in excluding personal info)

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

Currently at work at the moment so I do not have all the documents to hand. The loan was taken in 2007. Went into arrears 2009. Original term was for around 10 years, with payments about £330.

I have also respoken to the court and they have confirmed that Incasso applied back in March and it was due to a court error it has taken this long.

The original claim was the usual vague claim companies send in with no details. I can try to find the documents tonight and scan them in tomorrow morning.

[Amethyst]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

Cool

[Amethyst]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

• 
  
  Some useful info for you to include in your witness statement, will wait for your docs then we can put things in a WS format to get over to the court asap. This was written by a guy on a 'frugal living' site.
  
  
  
  
  Payments promised by you, are up to date - list briefly how much you have paid and dates when they were paid. (Remember: a company cannot refuse any payment offer from yourself - despite what their advisors tell you. Once you default, then start paying an amount that you can afford on a regular basis, even if it is refused as "not being enough" by the company. When it comes to court, this will look better to the judge and help your case.)
  Respectfully draw the court's attention to the case of Mercantile Credit Company v Ellis 1987 (Google it to read the case findings in full) in which the judge ruled that a court has to first issue a judgement and this must be in arrears before a charging order can be granted.
• Unfair priority over other creditors - list for the court other creditors you are paying by instalments.
  Chances are if you are struggling with one loan etc, you will have a couple more that are demanding money from you. Pay them all the same amount each month and list the monthly amount you pay them here for the judge. I am assuming you have the common sense to be offering the same level of payment to the claimant in your case?
  Respectfully make the court aware, that should a charging order be granted in this case, your other creditors would be "unduly prejudiced" and this would put them at an unfair disadvantage (Ref: Charging orders act 1979)
• The orginal loan was "unsecured" - this should apply to everyone, as a charging order is a way of securing the debt against your home. Payments have been made on your account, at a higher interest rate, as the loan, debt etc, was unsecured. Had the debt originally been "secured" it would have incurred a lower rate of interest. The company was happy to provide the loan etc, without security when it was taken out.
• Family hardship - if any person lives in your home, who have no connection with your debt, then highlight to the court that should a charging order be granted and your house is sold, this would cause undue hardship for other people not connected with your debt. This can be very effective if you took out your finance in your name only and not in joint names with your partner!
• Original amount proposed has not been objected to - not everyone can use this.
  When you were sent the allocation questionnaire, when the court process started, if the company did not object to your low payment amount you proposed, but instead said they would agree to it on condition that they secure the debt against your home, then point out to the court that "the company have not objected to the payment amount you proposed."

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

I am having trouble locating the original credit agreement and court ruling. I did find the original claim form which stated:

The Claimants claim is in respect of monies due pursuant to an account maintained by the claimant and the claimant claims £32,659.81

That's all.

Will need to double check but the agreement was unsecured, for 10 years, taken out in 2008. Payments were around £350. I remember having the agreement checked and all was OK.

The court ruling that £28 was all I had to pay had no other information on it regarding charges or anything.

Sorry to sound slightly vague. Hopefully tonight I can retreive the info just to back up what I think.

[Amethyst]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

Thanks for looking it's okay we'll work on what we do know and add it the rest later, Do you feel a little bit less panic'd at least now ?

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

Without sounding a creep, yes. Its your advice that's helping!

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

Cannot find the credit agreement but I have found out the following:

Amount of original loan was £25,000
Term: 84months
Taken Out In: Aug 2008
Contractual Payments were £425.53
Unsecured

Judgement for determination: £27.20

Had to chase for standing order details but got them in the end! Been paying by standing order ever since I was given the details. Had to send a cheque for the first one as they did not reply to my first letter. They have not objected or raised any concerns regarding payments.

Did original write and offer £50 per month back in Aug 09, but the lender declined these after I started paying this and they took it further.

[Differentjudge]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

good luck for Monday........

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Big Panic- Tesco/ Incasso V Me- Notice of Hearing after a CCJ Judgement

Thankyou.