TOMLIN: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell - SORTED !

[Amethyst]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

Maybe call the court see if anything happened, just for something to do lol.

Good to see ur reading the test case thread, we do go on a bit and really don't take any notice of anything I say, look on the dark side and things can only get brighter my excuse anyway

[Nickij01]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

As usual I spoke way too soon!

Received letter from Irwin Mitchell yesterday.

I would love to know where they think I have £9000 just lying around, £9000 I am just sitting on to make a joke out of them, hiding and keeping it secret cos I think its funny. I am the only person on the planet that doesn't have a stack of savings being kept a secret?? I know I should look at it as them offering me a better situation but really, they are receiving payments through Payplan, do they really think if I had £9000 I would be accepted on a scheme like that, sorry, I am in a very bad mood today, can you tell?

Anyhoo, so they have replied to my other half, I have attached their response.

I am hoping you will be able to advise me what to do next as we clearly cannot pay £9000.

Questions I have is firstly with the current account overdraft they are claiming for, they really messed Payplan about on that starting off stating there was no money due then came up with this amount, I would like to have a statement for this account, sure Rob has probably got one somewhere but I want to know what has bought it to that amount, I have a feeling, charges and interest more than anything else! What can I do about that?

Also the February thing was completely out of our control and I have only just found out it happened through Payplan, they never informed us this had happened, it was when we could no longer afford the original payment being made of £440 so reduced it to £340, because of this Payplan should have sent out new financial statements to all the creditors, with Natwest and Abbey they didn't. I have evidence in a letter from Payplan with regards to this I also have a statement of all payments made and it shows on Payplans statement that a payment was made on the 12th February so I don't know really understand where the fault actually lies, I need to scan the letter from Payplan but I don't have it with me today. I have also attached the statement from Payplan showing payments made. Natwest loan is actually the Royal Bank of Scotland payment of around £136.

The letter, because I have scanned it is tif format, not sure if that will be ok for you to read, let me know.

I hope you can help as I really wouldn't know what to do next.

Thanks

Nicki

[WendyB]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

You have left in the personal details on the Irwin Mitchell letter.

Looks like they have deducted the £1800 that you've paid from the balance of the loan owing.

With regard to the current account, if you have online banking you can get statements going back 7 years. If not, have you SAR'd them to get all data they hold on you etc? Or is that covered under CPR? (not sure on that one) But it may be a possibility of a counterclaim for the charges, Ame would be better able to advise on that. I think the without prejudice save as to costs bit is meant to scaring you into backing off in case they hit you with their costs later?

Tbh I think that if and when it goes to court, and this is just my opinion, if you are paying 136 monthly against 11k, that would be paid off in just under 7 years anyway, so Ii don't see why the judge wouldn't order things to carry on as they are, albeit they might get a charging order on your property as security.

[Amethyst]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

Hi nicola, I have unapproved your attachments for now as you have left personal info on them.


I'm having a read through now.

Ame
xx

[Amethyst]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

Okay thats all fine, they are applying to the court to amend their particulars of claim so the defence you entered had the desired effect


Where are we with charges on the current account, and loan ?

What we do is wait for their revised POC then enter a defence and admission, offer to pay on the amount you actually owe same monthly amount you pay by payplan, and counterclaim on the charges amounts.

[Nickij01]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

You people should have halos!

Ok so, charges situation on current account for Roberto, (sorry about the personal info, didn't even think of that) there is a claim in with Natwest that has been rejected for obvious reason on hardship basis so just sitting in limbo like the rest of them until the OFT test case is sorted in the next 100 years or so ;o) The claim from them already put in is £865.12 plus maybe a tiny bit more interest. I am not absolutely sure, as I said what the £547.87 overdraft has come from, its an account Robert stopped using when we started pursuing the charges claim as recommended by Martin, so we went over to Halifax basic bank account and have used that ever since. As I said we are likely to have statements somewhere in the house but paperwork has not been kept on top of it would be easier to request a statement maybe?

Sorry Ame, you know what I am like by now, want to make sure I understand and don't get anything wrong, as it is easily done from my point of view, not the cleverest thing around. Should I ascertain what makes up this £547.87 or do I just leave it until they have produced the revised POC? Would not replying to their offer cause any issues? Is what Wendy is saying should they have supplied details of the £547.87DR with this letter and to the courts?

Thanks very much ladies!

NJ x

[Amethyst]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

yep it's easy and you will be fine with it.

the fact you have a hardship claim in already helps a lot, as the account was formally in dispute and the claim should never have been brought against you for the account. The loan part should really have been done on its own.

do you have copies of the letters/spreadsheet/list of charges you used to start your hardship claim ? They would be useful to see.

You already have an income and expenditure sheet done through payplan don't you, so make sure you have a copy of that - as it will need attaching the the defence when we do it, and also the payplan communications with natwest regarding the loan account would be helpful, alongside the payplan statements.

Basically you want everything that shows you have made best efforts to repay the loan considering your circumstances will get the judge to simply award them the loan amount plus a proportion of costs and you repay at installments same as you are via payplan. The overdraft part of their claim should be put on hold.

I'll draft up a defence later for you, theres no rush as they have to submit their amendments then you have to be notified and given a further 21 days.

we might as well get things orgainised see if theres anything missing which you need to ask the bank to provide under the CPR in advance

all is well and as expected so don't worry about a thing


oh re your questions; thinking on it yes we might reply to their letter, as they say they will produce it in court something like -

thanks for letter and for confirming details of the claim I look forward to receiving the revised particulars etc, you'll be aware the loan is being paid by installment through payplan at xxx a month and my circumstances do not allow me to make any larger offer. you'll also be aware the current accounts in dispute ref hardship claim entered on XXX 2009 etc.


you think ? Just to show how reasonable you are.

[Nickij01]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

Ok phew, thank you for the reassurance.

I do have copies of everything, just need to get it all together. Copies of claim letters, spreadsheets etc. Income and expenditure thing is easy to get off Payplan's website. The only thing I can foresee not being quite so easy are all the copies of commuications from Payplan to Natwest but certainly happy to request it.

Yes I do think it would show good face to respond to the letter, your wording sounds good, so I will draft that up tomorrow. Just one thing though, does it make a difference that they formally wrote and rejected the hardship claim?

All cool though, thank you so much, as usual you have completely calmed me and I am no longer worried.

Will try to get as much together as quickly as possible.

Thanks Ame you are a star.

NJ x

[Amethyst]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

Just a bit regarding the offer they made. They have stated this is under part 36, and that they will bring it to the judges attention.

Civil Procedure Rules


Part 36 OFFERS TO SETTLE

Restriction on disclosure of a Part 36 offer

36.13

(1) A Part 36 offer will be treated as ‘without prejudice(GL) except as to costs’.

(2) The fact that a Part 36 offer has been made must not be communicated to the trial judge or to the judge (if any) allocated in advance to conduct the trial until the case has been decided.

(3) Paragraph (2) does not apply –
(a) where the defence of tender before claim(GL) has been raised;

(b) where the proceedings have been stayed(GL) under rule 36.11 following acceptance of a Part 36 offer; or

(c) where the offeror and the offeree agree in writing that it should not apply.




Costs consequences following judgment

36.14

(1) This rule applies where upon judgment being entered –
(a) a claimant fails to obtain a judgment more advantageous than a defendant’s Part 36 offer; or

(b) judgment against the defendant is at least as advantageous to the claimant as the proposals contained in a claimant’s Part 36 offer.


(2) Subject to paragraph (6), where rule 36.14(1)(a) applies, the court will, unless it considers it unjust to do so, order that the defendant is entitled to –
(a) his costs from the date on which the relevant period expired; and

(b) interest on those costs.


(3) Subject to paragraph (6), where rule 36.14(1)(b) applies, the court will, unless it considers it unjust to do so, order that the claimant is entitled to –
(a) interest on the whole or part of any sum of money (excluding interest) awarded at a rate not exceeding 10% above base rate(GL) for some or all of the period starting with the date on which the relevant period expired;

(b) his costs on the indemnity basis from the date on which the relevant period expired; and

(c) interest on those costs at a rate not exceeding 10% above base rate(GL).


(4) In considering whether it would be unjust to make the orders referred to in paragraphs (2) and (3) above, the court will take into account all the circumstances of the case including –
(a) the terms of any Part 36 offer;

(b) the stage in the proceedings when any Part 36 offer was made, including in particular how long before the trial started the offer was made;

(c) the information available to the parties at the time when the Part 36 offer was made; and

(d) the conduct of the parties with regard to the giving or refusing to give information for the purposes of enabling the offer to be made or evaluated.


(5) Where the court awards interest under this rule and also awards interest on the same sum and for the same period under any other power, the total rate of interest may not exceed 10% above base rate(GL).

(6) Paragraphs (2) and (3) of this rule do not apply to a Part 36 offer –
(a) that has been withdrawn;

(b) that has been changed so that its terms are less advantageous to the offeree, and the offeree has beaten the less advantageous offer;

(c) made less than 21 days before trial, unless the court has abridged the relevant period.

(Rule 44.3 requires the court to consider an offer to settle that does not have the costs consequences set out in this Part in deciding what order to make about costs)

[Nickij01]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

You know when someone refers to being blinded by science, I feel rather blinded by legal stuff, I am really sorry Ame, I feel ashamed to write this but that is completely lost on me, I don't really understand part 36, whether its a good thing or a bad thing that they will bring their letter to the judges attention. I really don't understand legal jargon. Sorry but thank you anyway.

[Amethyst]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

thats okay honey don't worry, have posted it more for reference than anything else

[Amethyst]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

btw. did you get chance to do a draft of that letter ?

[Nickij01]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

Ooops, sorry had loads on my mind, just found out we are expecting our second baby, not really great for the finances, just hope the test case is a positive result for us and comes through before June next year..........hmmm.

Here we go, what do you think?

Your Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Claim Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

20th October 2009


To Whom it May Concern

Thank you for your letter dated 13th October 2009 confirming details of the claim, I look forward to receiving the revised particulars.

As you are aware the loan and current account fees are being paid for instalments through Payplan. The loan at £136.48 a month and the current account charges at £6.09 per month and my circumstances do not allow me to make any larger offer. You will also be aware that the current account in dispute reference hardship claim entered on 24th July 2009.

Yours sincerely





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Obviously based around your suggestion, not really sure how to end it.

[Budgie]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

Hiya Nickij,

Congratulations on the new baby news.

Ame will respond regarding your letter.

I just wanted to let you know that I removed some personal details from your last post so that any sneaky people reading your thread cannot personally identify you.

Hope you don't mind.

Budgie

[Amethyst]

Re: Nickij v Natwest/Irwin Mitchell

Letter is perfect and all that is needed

Congrats on the news, how exciting


/just read you note re the ending, how about this

Your Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Claim Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

20th October 2009


To Whom it May Concern

Thank you for your letter dated 13th October 2009 confirming details of the claim.

As you are aware the loan and current account fees are being paid for instalments through Payplan. The loan at £136.48 a month and the current account charges at £6.09 per month and my circumstances do not allow me to make any larger offer. You will also be aware that the current account in dispute reference hardship claim entered on 24th July 2009.

I look forward to receiving the revised particulars.

Yours sincerely