Can you please advise on the best course of action?

[apsr90]

Hi all,

I have recieved a County Claim, which was issued on the 5th of June, with the original debt from Thames Water. Now, the issue is that I believe (based on what I remember and the credit payment history) that the amount quoted is incorrect (too high) and they have charged me for a period after I left the property. Unfortunaterly, all that is included in the particulars is Thames Water's account number and no other information. Can you advise on the following please:

1. I assume I should acknoledge the claim online to get the extra time to find out more information about the bill period, irrespective If I want to defend or admit the full amount later?
2. Is it advisable to contact the debt collector/solicitor directly by phone in order to find out more information about the claim?
3. Should I still send out CCA Request, CPR 31.14 Request, and Subject Access Request? Should these be sent to the solicitor's address included in the coutny claim form?

Many thanks in advance

[echat11]

HI APSR

Welcome to LB

a) Fill in the following, copy / paste back onto this thread, leave out personal details. Your service contract with Thames is not covered by CCA 1974.
So no reference to it please.

Received a claim? Yes/No:
Issue Date:
Have you Acknowledged the Claim?:
Total Amount Claimed : ( approximately please do NOT use EXACT figure given on the claim form, round up to next £100 or £1000)
Claimant’s Name:
Solicitors Firm:
Original Creditor:
Original Debt (eg. service agreement) :
Particulars of Claim: ( Please type out in full excluding names/account numbers/exact amounts ):
Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?):
List any letters you have sent (eg: CPR ):
Any Other Information or Background Details:

b) If you haven't acknowledged the claim, do so online via MCOL, you are denying the whole claim at this time.
That gives you 14 + 14 from the date on the claim form, so 28 days (5 days postal). You need to get your defence in within 28 days.

c) Send a 31.14 request to their solicitors, named on the claim form, they have 7 days to respond after receipt of letter (keep an eye on that). Make sure you get Proof of Postage.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-of-documents/

d) Send a SAR to Thames, they have 30 days to provide all the data on the account, make sure you get Proof of Postage.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

You need to lodge your Defence with the Court and their solicitors within 28 days (although you have 5 days for postal). Do not forget. Update the thread when you get the requested information.

Update the thread 3 days before your defence is due..

[apsr90]

Thank you Echat11 for your reply and help. Please see below on the points:

a)

Received a claim? Yes
Issue Date: 5th June
Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: No
Total Amount Claimed : £300
Claimant’s Name: JC International Acquisition
Solicitors Firm: BW Legal
Original Creditor: Thames Water
Original Debt:
Particulars of Claim: The claimant's claim is for the sum of xxx being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of the supply of water utilities by THames Water Utilitied LTD to the Defendant under account reference xxxxx. The rights, benefits, and title to the account have been assigned to the Claimant on date (/dd/mm/2022), notice of which has been given to the Defendant pursuant to s.136 of the Law of the Property Act 1925. The Defendant has failed to make payment as and when it fell due and despite demand having been made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.
Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?): Not directly, but I have recieved debt demand letters.
List any letters you have sent (eg: CPR ): Not sure
Any Other Information or Background Details:

b) Are you saying that I have to defend the case if I acknolwedge? At the moment I'm not sure whether I should dend or admit because I'm not certain if they have charged for bills after I left the property


c) Will do, although in the particulars there is no mention of 'agreement', 'contract', or 'notice of assigment'. They only mention supply of utlities and the account number (see above). What should I request in the 31.14? Also, what should the date of filing my defence be, 28 days from the issue date?

d) Will do, thank you.


Kind regards

[echat11]

Thank you Echat11 for your reply and help. Please see below on the points:

a)

Received a claim? Yes
Issue Date: 5th June
Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: No
Total Amount Claimed : £300
Claimant’s Name: JC International Acquisition
Solicitors Firm: BW Legal
Original Creditor: Thames Water
Original Debt:
Particulars of Claim: The claimant's claim is for the sum of xxx being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of the supply of water utilities by THames Water Utilitied LTD to the Defendant under account reference xxxxx. The rights, benefits, and title to the account have been assigned to the Claimant on date (/dd/mm/2022), notice of which has been given to the Defendant pursuant to s.136 of the Law of the Property Act 1925. The Defendant has failed to make payment as and when it fell due and despite demand having been made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.
Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?): Not directly, but I have recieved debt demand letters.
List any letters you have sent (eg: CPR ): Not sure
Any Other Information or Background Details:

b) Are you saying that I have to defend the case if I acknolwedge? At the moment I'm not sure whether I should dend or admit because I'm not certain if they have charged for bills after I left the property


c) Will do, although in the particulars there is no mention of 'agreement', 'contract', or 'notice of assigment'. They only mention supply of utlities and the account number (see above). What should I request in the 31.14? Also, what should the date of filing my defence be, 28 days from the issue date?

d) Will do, thank you.


Kind regards

a) Are you saying that I have to defend the case if I acknolwedge? At the moment I'm not sure whether I should dend or admit because I'm not certain if they have charged for bills after I left the property

You are saying, you know some things (that you had an account with them), you are disputing other things (the amount), so give yourself as much time as possible to get all the facts, Acknowledge of Service and deny all.

Here is an example defence, but all reference to CCA 1974 (you had a service agreement) and Default notices under the CCA 1974 needs to be removed as they don't apply to Service Agreements.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-court-claims/

b) Will do, although in the particulars there is no mention of 'agreement', 'contract', or 'notice of assigment'. They only mention supply of utlities and the account number (see above). What should I request in the 31.14? Also, what should the date of filing my defence be, 28 days from the issue date?

Request Service Agreement, Terms & Conditions, Notice of Assignment and Default Notice.

c) Also in another letter (in the same envelope) to them ask for a 30 day extension to file your defence (see what they say).

[apsr90]

a) Are you saying that I have to defend the case if I acknolwedge? At the moment I'm not sure whether I should dend or admit because I'm not certain if they have charged for bills after I left the property

You are saying, you know some things (that you had an account with them), you are disputing other things (the amount), so give yourself as much time as possible to get all the facts, Acknowledge of Service and deny all.

Here is an example defence, but all reference to CCA 1974 (you had a service agreement) and Default notices under the CCA 1974 needs to be removed as they don't apply to Service Agreements.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-court-claims/

b) Will do, although in the particulars there is no mention of 'agreement', 'contract', or 'notice of assigment'. They only mention supply of utlities and the account number (see above). What should I request in the 31.14? Also, what should the date of filing my defence be, 28 days from the issue date?

Request Service Agreement, Terms & Conditions, Notice of Assignment and Default Notice.

c) Also in another letter (in the same envelope) to them ask for a 30 day extension to file your defence (see what they say).

Thanks again EChat11. Just a couple of quick follow ups please. On the 31.14 template used in this website (https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-of-documents/), it says not to ask for things that are not mentioned in the Particulars i.e. Default Notice for example. Has this advice changed?

If I don't hear back from the solicitor within 7 days, is that used as grounds for a dismissal of the claim?

Kind regards

[echat11]

Thanks again EChat11. Just a couple of quick follow ups please. On the 31.14 template used in this website (https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-of-documents/), it says not to ask for things that are not mentioned in the Particulars i.e. Default Notice for example. Has this advice changed?

If I don't hear back from the solicitor within 7 days, is that used as grounds for a dismissal of the claim?

Kind regards

a) On the 31.14 template used in this website (https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-of-documents/), it says not to ask for things that are not mentioned in the Particulars i.e. Default Notice for example. Has this advice changed?

Strictly speaking it should be stuff stated in their Statement of Case, but it's better to ask for everything, even though it's not specifically stated. No doubt when they respond, they'll go on about this and that.

b) If I don't hear back from the solicitor within 7 days, is that used as grounds for a dismissal of the claim?

No it just means they haven't stuck to the CPR Protocols, something you can state to the Court at the end regards costs if there are any. They might ask for an extension to respond with the requested documents.

[apsr90]

a) On the 31.14 template used in this website (https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-of-documents/), it says not to ask for things that are not mentioned in the Particulars i.e. Default Notice for example. Has this advice changed?

Strictly speaking it should be stuff stated in their Statement of Case, but it's better to ask for everything, even though it's not specifically stated. No doubt when they respond, they'll go on about this and that.

b) If I don't hear back from the solicitor within 7 days, is that used as grounds for a dismissal of the claim?

No it just means they haven't stuck to the CPR Protocols, something you can state to the Court at the end regards costs if there are any. They might ask for an extension to respond with the requested documents.

Hi Echat11,

So I called Thames Water and the solictors in order to obtain more information and I found out the following:

Firstly Thames Water had no information on the account apart from my name/surname and the property address. It appears since they sold the debt to JC International they refer you to their phone number (which of course no one answers). What they told me however, was that the bill was based on the ratable value of the property (unmetered bill) whereas I had a meter in the proeprty and even took photos of the meter reading when I moved out.

I then called the solictor and found out that the claim includes 3 months (out 10) where I had already moved out of the property. Is this grounds for part admission/dissmisal? Or are are the above points about metered billing and more additional months charge just part of my defence into the claim for the court to consider?

Finally, when I asked the solictors about sending me the information on the account I was told since this is now with the courts that can't provide any information. I mentioned that by law they had to provide some information within 7 days (the letter has been sent and recieved already) and I was told that no that is not the case. I'm assuming whoever I was speaking to was incorrect?

[echat11]

a) I then called the solictor and found out that the claim includes 3 months (out 10) where I had already moved out of the property. Is this grounds for part admission/dissmisal? Or are are the above points about metered billing and more additional months charge just part of my defence into the claim for the court to consider?

That information will help you case, basically they are claiming some money that you don't owe. All this can go int your Witness Statement later on.

b) Finally, when I asked the solictors about sending me the information on the account I was told since this is now with the courts that can't provide any information. I mentioned that by law they had to provide some information within 7 days (the letter has been sent and recieved already) and I was told that no that is not the case. I'm assuming whoever I was speaking to was incorrect?

It's nonsense. This will be reflected in your Defence. Did you send Thames Water a Subject Access Request post ,2, (D).

c) Have you looked at the example Defence in post 4?

[apsr90]

a) I then called the solictor and found out that the claim includes 3 months (out 10) where I had already moved out of the property. Is this grounds for part admission/dissmisal? Or are are the above points about metered billing and more additional months charge just part of my defence into the claim for the court to consider?

That information will help you case, basically they are claiming some money that you don't owe. All this can go int your Witness Statement later on.

b) Finally, when I asked the solictors about sending me the information on the account I was told since this is now with the courts that can't provide any information. I mentioned that by law they had to provide some information within 7 days (the letter has been sent and recieved already) and I was told that no that is not the case. I'm assuming whoever I was speaking to was incorrect?

It's nonsense. This will be reflected in your Defence. Did you send Thames Water a Subject Access Request post ,2, (D).

I did. I sent a SAR to both Thames Water and the the current hodler of the debt i.e. claimant.

c) Have you looked at the example Defence in post 4?

I did yes. So mine is about a service agreement. Does one enter a service agreement with a utility company as soon as they become the occupier of the premises? I don't remember entering in such an agreement or having any corresspondence with Thames Water at the time.

[echat11]

I did yes. So mine is about a service agreement. Does one enter a service agreement with a utility company as soon as they become the occupier of the premises? I don't remember entering in such an agreement or having any corresspondence with Thames Water at the time.

a) Does one enter a service agreement with a utility company as soon as they become the occupier of the premises? I don't remember entering in such an agreement or having any corresspondence with Thames Water at the time.

Yes, it's a service agreement. It's when you move into the preemies that they are supplying with water.

[apsr90]

a) Does one enter a service agreement with a utility company as soon as they become the occupier of the premises? I don't remember entering in such an agreement or having any corresspondence with Thames Water at the time.

Yes, it's a service agreement. It's when you move into the preemies that they are supplying with water.

One last question before I send the defence please. Since the money claimed includes a period I wasn't at the property and the fact that the method of calculating the bill was incorret (unmetered vs. metered), should I be asking for the Claim to be struck out entirely rather than ask to wait for any documents from the solicitor, which wouldn't ultimately change these two fundamental points?

Thank you

[echat11]

One last question before I send the defence please. Since the money claimed includes a period I wasn't at the property and the fact that the method of calculating the bill was incorret (unmetered vs. metered), should I be asking for the Claim to be struck out entirely rather than ask to wait for any documents from the solicitor, which wouldn't ultimately change these two fundamental points?

Thank you

No, I wouldn't as you will probably end up back where you are.

Also to get it struck out, you have to fill in forms and pay a fee.

Also if you want your defence looked at post it on this thread.

[apsr90]

No, I wouldn't as you will probably end up back where you are.

Also to get it struck out, you have to fill in forms and pay a fee.

Also if you want your defence looked at post it on this thread.

So I filed my defence and recieved a letter a few days letter by the solicitor telling me that they will still pursue this and want me to pay in full before it goes to court by a certain deadline, or else I risk a judgement and additional costs etc. Is this standard response from a solicitor?

[echat11]

So I filed my defence and recieved a letter a few days letter by the solicitor telling me that they will still pursue this and want me to pay in full before it goes to court by a certain deadline, or else I risk a judgement and additional costs etc. Is this standard response from a solicitor?

Yes it's standard.

Have you sent Thames Water a Subject Access Request?, they have 30 days to provide all the data on the account over a 6 year period. Make sure you get Proof of Postage.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

You need to nail down what you believe you owe with facts / documents.

When did you live there - dates?
What period should you be bill for?

[apsr90]

Yes it's standard.

Have you sent Thames Water a Subject Access Request, they have 30 days to provide all the data on the account over a 6 year period. Make sure you get Proof of Postage.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

You need to nail down what you believe you owe with facts / documents.

When did you live there - dates?
What period should you be bill for?

I did and I recieved some information, but very little of it pertains to that property. Thames Water couldn't give me any information (as they had sold the debt) apart from the fact that it was billed based on the Ratable Value of the Property (unmetered) when the property was in fact metered (I have photos of the meter). I also have a recording of this phone call (from the SAR) where TW confirmed that it was billed based on Ratable Valuue (unemetered). I think this renders the billing invalid so my opinion is that it makes the period I was staying there redundant. In any case, when it comes to the billing period, I believe they may have overcharged me 37.5% of the total billing period, based on what solicitor said on the phone. Although the solicitor also said they are not required to send me any documents when requested, so I don't necesserily believe anything they say.