County Court Claim - Overdales

[Evie007]

Oh, I forgot to mention, they did reference the dates the agreements were entered in to but I deleted point 6 from my defence.

[echat11]

OMG…perhaps it’s only me that has difficulties with things ….I typed the whole thing out online and for some reason I was timed out and had to type it all out again. I didn’t find it easy doing this online whatsoever.

STILL, It’s done snd submitted. Is that all I have to do for now? I’ve read on another thread that something was emailed to the Claimant and the CCBC? May be I’ve got that wrong but if you could let me know what happens next I would be much obliged.

Honestly Echat and Mike, you’ve helped me beyond words….let this battle commence

You've lodged your Defence with the Court, I would send a copy to Overdales, make sure you get Proof of Postage.

You will receive a Directions Questionnaire (opportunity of mediation) which you need to fill in carefully, send a copy to the Court and Overdales, make sure you get Proof of Postage.

A helpful guide - https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

[MIKE770]

other side has 28 days to respond to defence otherwise it gets stayed (Parked up) and if they wish to continue later then pay a fee to unstay it.

if they do respond the court will issue Practice of direction to you also claimant, next stage of case

[echat11]

other side has 28 days to respond to defence otherwise it gets stayed (Parked up) and if they wish to continue later then pay a fee to unstay it.

if they do respond the court will issue Practice of direction to you also claimant, next stage of case

Yet to see a case where they haven't 'responded' (from memory), even if they send something 'ridiculous', This case might be different as they've issued a claim, whilst the JD Williams account is with the FOS.

[MIKE770]

my old case the judge allowed 2 months for FOS response when informed still out standing she went ahead and ignored outstanding issues and CCJ issued, year later FOS stated sorry court case therefore court decision. judiciary case not FOS directive,.

[echat11]

my old case the judge allowed 2 months for FOS response when informed still out standing she went ahead and ignored outstanding issues and CCJ issued, year later FOS stated sorry court case therefore court decision. judiciary case not FOS directive,.

That's 'ridicuolous', it's putting the 'cart before the horse'. Especially because the Courts say you need to put the 'horse before the cart'. Do everything to resolve the matter before you turn to them.

[Evie007]

Good Morning,

I have an update which I will share with you -

I have received a letter from HM Courts and Tribunals on 5 May which reads as follows:

1) I acknowledge receipt of your defence. A copy is being served on the claimant (or the claimant's solicitor). The claimant may contact you direct to attempt to resolve any dispute. If the dispute cannot be resolved informally, the claimant will inform the court that he wishes to proceed. The court will then inform you of what will happen.

Where he wishes to proceed, the claimant must contact the court within 28 days after receiving a copy of your defence. After that period has elapsed, the claim will be stayed. The only action the claimant can then take will be to apply to a judge for an order lifting the stay.

I also received an email from Overdales on 5th May as follows:

We write further to our email of 13 April 2022 and in particular your concerns raised about our conduct. Our investigation into this matter has now concluded.

YOUR CONCERNS:
You requested further details of the account and received confirmation this had been requested, however this information was not provided before a County Court Claim was issued.

OUR INVESTIGATION:
We were instructed by our client, Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd, to act in relation to this consolidated account. The account comprises of a former NewDay Ltd account, a former JD Williams account, and a former Sky Uk Ltd account. On 16th and 28th February 2022, we sent you letter to confirm our instructions and provided opportunity for you to contact our office.

We received correspondence from you on 3rd March 2022 requesting copies of credit agreements together with breakdowns of the accounts.

Our response of the 8 March 2022 confirmed we had requested the copy agreements and a response would be provided upon receipt. We also confirmed the SKY Uk account is not a credit account and as such we were unable to obtain a copy of the credit agreement. A County Court claim was issued on th 6 April 2022, following which we received your concerns of 8th April 2022.

OUTCOME:
Upon review of your account, we accept that the requested agreements were not provided as previously suggested prior to the claim being issued. In view of this we will be upholding your complaint. As solicitors for our client, we pride ourselves on dealing with our client's customers in a professional manner and we apologise that we have failed to achieve this in your dealings with us. Please be assured that the relevant feedback has been provided as part of this complaint investigation.


NEXT STEPS:
Please find enclosed copy agreements for the NewDay and JD Williams accounts, and a copy of a letter from SKY detailing the package. As a gesture of goodwill we have taken steps to remove costs and fees incurred in issuing the claim. We invite you to respond to the claim with your intention within the next 14 days.

We look forward to hearing from you further.

yours sincerely

Overdales


Overdales have attached the following:

1) A copy of a letter detailing a Sky package (broadband, Sky Talk and line rental) - its essentially a welcome to Sky letter with an account number that corresponds to the one in the claim form. You may recall that I have spoken with Sky about this reference number and they have said there is nothing outstanding on the account to pay. I appreciate I need something in writing - I have sent SKY a SAR and am just waiting on it coming back as I've had nothing to date. I will phone them to chase.

2) JD Williams - A copy of a Credit agreement with my name and address - no date anywhere on this. I have advised Lowells this is with FOS and have sent a SAR and a CPR 31.14 letter to them but no response. Do I need to tell Overdales again that this account is currently with FOS and is currently being investigated. Doesnt seems right that they are able to start legal action on a disputed account?

3) NewDay - A copy of a Credit Agreement

So, Im now asking if you lovely people can help me with the next steps. I'm hopeful that they will grant me further time with the JD Williams because of FOS involvement. Should I phone Sky to see if they can give me something in writing? Please note that whilst Overdales have provided agreements there are no default notices or breakdown of accounts etc. Do they need to provided these for court action (I've requested these but they are not in the POC).

Whatever happens I have to avoid a CCJ at all costs (As a single parent, I've had a rollercoaster of a time for the past 7 years and am finally getting to a good place so a CCJ would be disastrous). Do I have any options with this?

As always, thank you so much for your help and guidance and look forward to hearing from you.

[echat11]

a) Have you got this in writing?

'You may recall that I have spoken with Sky about this reference number and they have said there is nothing outstanding on the account to pay.'

b) I think this is a good idea, they can't say they weren't told this. Explain that Lowell's has been told this, explain that the FOS has been informed and who are investigating the matter.

'Do I need to tell Overdales again that this account is currently with FOS and is currently being investigated. Doesnt seems right that they are able to start legal action on a disputed account?'

C) They should at least provide a breakdown of account to show the amount owing and how it's been arrived at. Only the JD Williams and New Day accounts are regulated so they must send copies of default notices.

'Please note that whilst Overdales have provided agreements there are no default notices or breakdown of accounts etc. Do they need to provided these for court action (I've requested these but they are not in the POC).'

You are a long way from a CCJ.

[Evie007]

Good morning,

I have now received an email from Sky regarding my SAR request. They have provided written copies and voice notes of all transactions dating from 2021 onwards which is strange because I have had contracts further back so not sure why they haven’t provided anything more.

On the plus side, there is a voice note relating to my recent telephone interaction whereby the Sky employee stated there was no outstanding balance on the account in question.

I now have to respond to Overdales with my intentions.

I will mention that I am in possession of the voice note but should I attach it to my email to them?

My JD Williams account is still being looked at by FOS, they have just contacted me requesting more info which I am currently doing so I will reiterate that back to Overdales.

Should I also ask for the breakdown of account etc and copy of default for Newday?

is there anything further that I should add to my response?

[echat11]

a) I will mention that I am in possession of the voice note but should I attach it to my email to them?

I would just write stating that Sky has provided evidence that no monies is owed on the account stated in their Particulars of Claim.

b) My JD Williams account is still being looked at by FOS, they have just contacted me requesting more info which I am currently doing so I will reiterate that back to Overdales.

Good idea.

c) Should I also ask for the breakdown of account etc and copy of default for Newday?

You could simply add that requested documents are still missing, they should know what they have sent and haven't sent.

is there anything further that I should add to my response?

No.

The above should be dealt in the Witness Statement / Hearing etc.

[MIKE770]

remember do not remind them about outstanding documents, they know they need them eventually, you do not want them to have more time to dog deeper to comply??? they are not your freinds they are the enemy so do not do their work for them.

as far as sky/ other companies records in most cases once an alledged debt sold off their books show zero as not their inventory any more, some people think they have to keep inventory of amount> that is not internal accounting? transaction held for 7 years for tax purposes it seems only.

re-read#2 as far a courts and FOS concerned

[echat11]

remember do not remind them about outstanding documents, they know they need them eventually, you do not want them to have more time to dog deeper to comply??? they are not your freinds they are the enemy so do not do their work for them.

as far as sky/ other companies records in most cases once an alledged debt sold off their books show zero as not their inventory any more, some people think they have to keep inventory of amount> that is not internal accounting? transaction held for 7 years for tax purposes it seems only.

re-read#2 as far a courts and FOS concerned

The thing is the Data Protection Regulations don't tally up with the individuals right to take legal action. The services companies can destroy evidence within the 6 years that you might need to rely on as evidence.

[Evie007]

remember do not remind them about outstanding documents, they know they need them eventually, you do not want them to have more time to dog deeper to comply??? they are not your freinds they are the enemy so do not do their work for them.

as far as sky/ other companies records in most cases once an alledged debt sold off their books show zero as not their inventory any more, some people think they have to keep inventory of amount> that is not internal accounting? transaction held for 7 years for tax purposes it seems only.

re-read#2 as far a courts and FOS concerned

Thanks Mike,

The thing is that Overdales have supplied a copy of an Agreement with NewDay dated 10 April 2015. They have invited me to respond so I have nothing more I can say apart from 'where are the breakdown of accounts, NOA and default notice'. I dont know why they didn't provide me with this additional information but surely if they have a copy of the Agreement then they must have the other information? (And in fairness their POC only referenced Agreement so are they actually legally obliged to produce breakdowns of accounts and default notices anyway?)

Agree with you about Sky but the guy I spoke to at Sky did manage to find info about the account in question and said there was nil to pay... I have been sent a copy of that voice note so I'm hoping that will be my 'Get Out of Jail Free' card!!

I am really hoping that the FOS make a decision about my JD Williams account very soon. If the Ombudsman decides in my favour that should help my case with Overdales. I know different judges view FOS intervention differently but before it gets to that stage I am hoping Overdales agree a stay on that account; if nothing more then for me to get some breathing space as thats the biggest amount of money they are trying to claim and its causing the most stress. I have to be realistic.... if I dont win this case I will have to find some cash as there is no way I need a CCJ right now.... Ive struggled for 10 years to get back on track and am finally getting straight and a CCJ would be disastrous.

[Evie007]

I have a further update. Further to providing my response to Overdales (which I will post below) I have received their reply.


"Dear Sirs,

I write with reference to your email correspondence dated 5 May 2022 and respond as follows:

I am now in possession of evidence from Sky UK Limited that no monies are due on the account referenced in your Particulars of Claim.


Your client should have been made aware that the J D Williams and Company Limited account is subject to a complaint which is currently being investigated by the Financial Ombudsman. This would have been communicated to them by the original creditor. A complaint was logged with F.O.S. which pre-dates the commencement of legal action.


My original complaint was concerning the fact that you had not followed Pre-Action Protocol before actioning a County Court Claim. You have subsequently provided copies of agreements however you have not provided copies of any breakdowns of these accounts or default notices as required.


I look forward to receiving your response in due course.

Yours sincerely".

Today I have received a bundle of information and the letter which reads as follows:

We acknowledge your defence in the above matter, then contents of which we have noted. As you are aware, legal proceedings have been issued against you for the following accounts and balance, details of which were provided to you in the claim form and the particulars of claim.

New Day - balance of £804.33 inclusive of costs and fees. The agreement commenced on 21 April 2015. The last payment was received on 1st April 2016. We enclose a further copy of the credit agreement and a statement of account for your review.

JD Williams - balance of £1347.46 inclusive of costs and fees. The agreement commenced on 10 June 2013 and the last payment was made on 23 March 2016. We enclose a further copy of the credit agreement and a statement of account for your review.

SKY - balance of £118.25. The agreement commenced on 9 October 2015 for tariff DTV SKYplus/HD PPV channels. The last payment of £35 was made on 27 February 2018 and the account was disconnected on 6 June 2019 due to non payment. We enclose a copy letter from Sky detailing the package.

The above agreements were terminated as payments were not maintained and subsequently and subsequently assigned to the claimant. We kindly refer you to the Notice of Assignments as sent to you previously, we enclose a copy for ease of reference.

You have put claimant to strict proof and requested disclosure of documents. You believe that the claimant's statement of case failed to give adequate information. You allege that default notices have not been served. You allege that there is an active complaint on JD Williams account and they were aware of it however they assigned the debt and proceedings were issued.

We have already provided you with breakdowns of these contracts above.

Addressing your issue raised regarding that the particulars of claim do not set out a clear and consise statement of facts, we dispute that claim on the grounds that the way we set out the statement of facts, would be seen as clear and consise in the eyes of the court. Tis is due to our client making it clear as to who the Defendant entered into agreements with, giving the agreements reference number as well as making it clear as to why the agreements were terminated. Furthermore, we have supplied the date the date this debt was assigned to our client with notice given to the defendant. We have also addressed as to the reason of why our client had to issue the court proceedings against you.

Please note that the Sky account does not arise under an agreement for credit and therefore is not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This means that the original creditor is not required to retain a copy of the agreement, if it was in writing and therefore we are unable to obtain a copy. We have already provided you with a letter from Sky detailing the package.

The debt related to the Sky account is not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act1974 therefore no requirement for a default notice to be served.
However we have requested a copy of a default notice for JD Williams and NewDay which will be provided to you on receipt.
In addition we have requested supporting documentation and further information from the original creditors to address your defence which will be provided to you upon receipt.

We note that you are in possession of evidence from Sky that no monies are due on the account referenced in the Claimants particulars of claim. We also note your comments that JD Williams account is subject to a complaint which is currently being investigated by the Financial Ombudsman. In order for our client to review your allegations and the dispute raised in respect Sky and JD Williams we ask that you provide a copy of any evidence of such communications/call logs with Sky and details of your complaint in respect of J D Williams. It would be helpful if you could provide this information within 14 days. Once we have received this we can take our clients instructions on the next steps to be taken.

Our client would like to resolve this matter. We trust you are aware that we have written off costs and fees from the current balance following your complaint as a gesture of goddwill. The total balance now due is £2270.04.

Our client considers that you remain liable for the current balance inclusive of interest. This claim will therefore proceed as a defended matter with the issues determined by the court if not resolved sooner. You will receive a directions questionnaire with your next steps separately from the court.

To reach an amincable resolution and to avoid the matter proceeding, our client is keen to attempt settlement of the outstanding balance of £2270.04 with you. Our client is willing to accept the sum of £1850 to end this matter.

*********** (letter goes on to offer payment options etc, etc.)

Addressing the content of the letter I am a little confused as to the dates supplied with the SKY account. It references a start date of October 2015 for DTV Sky plus/HD PPV. It also says the last payment was taken on 27 February 2019 and the account was disconnected on 6 June 2019. I have to presume this is a Pay Per View subscription which I have absolutely no knowledge of ever having. I will look through the info that Sky have given me and review the voice call that I had with Sky although just to recap that the voice log does also say that no payment is due for that account.

So....where does that leave me? Overdales have provided breakdowns on account for both JD and NewDay. The JD Williams if with FOS so hopefully that goes my way. I am running out of options with the NewDay one am I not? I'm frustrated with the NewDay one as 30 percent of the balance is late fees/admin costs looking at the statement of account.

I will await your instructions as to the way forward.

thanking you as always and sorry for the long post.

[echat11]

a) What you need to do is provide them with the following evidence for the Sky account - 'review the voice call that I had with Sky although just to recap that the voice log does also say that no payment is due for that account.'

b) Send them emails that the FOS telling you that they are looking into the JD Williams account.

c) Remove all the fees and admin costs for the NewDay account, see how it stacks up money wise. They still need to provide a copy of the agreement if the interest rate has been changed since you took out the original agreement. The statements of the account will show if the interest rates has been 'varied'. Don't remind them.

When you get to mediation make low offers for the NewDay account, see if they'll accept the offers, via a payment plan.