BW legal / Money shop CCJ - unsuccessful CCJ aside hearing - Advise needed

[DD1113]

I received a CCJ from BW Legal in regards to a loan i had in 2013 with the money shop
The claimant - PRAC financial who apparently owe the debt (notice of assignment provided) bought the debt off Instant cash loans limited trading as the money shop in late 2016.

I requested to get it set aside thinking it was statue barred and having asked BW legal for evidence I never got this until 3 days before my hearing.

I lost my case at the hearing today - on the basis it was not statue barred and failed to keep up payments

However, I have noticed other people have had successful claims against BW legal ?

From the papers i received last week (BW Legal witness statement) all of a sudden my loan agreement in question turned up - attached to it. on the loan it stated my current address - which I didnt live at at the time of the loan and also the agreement as "Instant Cash Loans Limited trading as the money shop".

Was the Money shop trading as ICL at the time? I dont think they were, does anyone know?

Also in the hearing the "judge" had only the witness statement - not the exhibits from it.

It is all easy saying this now but at the time in the court room I suppose i was nervous, i tried to argue the fact that I believe the loan agreement was not legitimate but it was dismissed. I feel extremely disappointed and actually strange why the judge did not have these exhibits.

I would like advise, I accept my original grounds for a CCJ are no longer viable and cannot go on it but reading a different subject on here I believe the agreement has been easily edited....

Would it be worth me appealing and stating my new argument over the fact ICL did not own Money shop at time of the loan in 2013? I believe they were owned as Dollar Financial.

As I say not only am i liable for the CCJ now but I am also liable for BWs costs which are £700.

I also accept maybe I should have looked at this before the hearing but everything has happened quite quickly. What are the odds of me submitting an appeal over questions over the CCJ.

The CCJ states:

The claimants sum of xxxxxxxx being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a loan agreement regulated by the CCA 1974 between the defendant and ICL T/a the Money shop under account ref xxxxxx to the claimant on 9/12/16 notice of which has been given to the defendant.

......... goes on to say no the CCJ i failed to maintain contractual payment etc

advise would be grateful.

Finally I must say i did not reply to the original claim form this has gone to CCJ in default

[R0b]

I requested to get it set aside thinking it was statue barred and having asked BW legal for evidence I never got this until 3 days before my hearing.

I also accept maybe I should have looked at this before the hearing but everything has happened quite quickly. What are the odds of me submitting an appeal over questions over the CCJ.

I think the above two statements are likely to scupper your chances. You had the evidence in advance of the hearing but failed to scrutinise what was given to you so I don't think you can really argue much about that.

Having said that, it might be possible based on what you have said to appeal on the basis that the judgment may have been obtained by way of fraud. You will need to supply evidence that the loan agreement may have been fabricated for example, your current address on the agreement if you can prove you lived elsewhere at the time.

Dollar Financial own a group of companies so to say they 'owned' the money shop could be technically true, but every company is a separate legal entity and treated separately for liability purposes. Equally, The Money Shop appears to be a trading name (of ICL) and not an actual company so I'm not sure that theory is correct.

Referring to the witness statement, assuming you mean the judge didn't have your exhibits, let it be a lesson that you should ideally carry at least an extra copy of your paperwork in event of a scenario like yours.

I guess the problem is putting all of your eggs in one basket and simply relying on a limitation defence only.

Did you file a defence with your set aside application? If not, why not?

Nothing in your post seems to mention a default notice being served on you given that the loan was regulated. Did you receive one as that could have been a prime opportunity to set aside the judgment.

[DD1113]

Hi Rob,

Yes, I intend to get evidence of exactly where I was living at the time, and I fully intend to find the agreements I signed back in 2013, my old address was a parents house and there is a slight chance the agreements maybe there - of course that is my job to find them asap!

What I did not mention at the top is 3 days - I had the papers on Saturday morning, I rang the court on the Monday and spoken to an advisor who said it maybe better to mention it at the hearing because my evidence may not get to the court in time i.e I posted it off Monday, may not have got to the court by the hearing today (wednesday)

I offered the exhibits to the judge - he did not want them - I suppose because my defence on limitation was that week. Lesson certainly learned there but at the same time this is the first time in court for me so I was not that aware on what to expect - I expected the judge to have the evidence in front of him - the excuse was "they are lying in the courts somewhere".

I refer to Dollar financial as i refer to the post below (link) where here the case was thrown out of the legitimacy of the two companies trading (ICL and money shop)

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...ant-cash-loans

Finally, I did submit a defence but again I was going on limitation and disputing the amount I owed - this was before I had seen the above link.
ICL were only trading from 2015 I believe - not at the time of the loan

[GBExile]

The loan you had is was probably not actually & lawfully owned by PRAC.

But you have had your day in court now.

[DD1113]

They sent me their notice of assignment stating they bought the debt off money shop

Is there any point in me appealing? On the basis I can prove for example my address was different at the time of the loan?

plus the fact on the agreement they came up with the loan was under ICL... i am aure ICL were not trading as money shop in 2013

[MIKE770]

with all the people on here surely one of you could advise this one in real prospect terms, not fuddle duddle comments of no use even for the birds???

[R0b]

Mike, I think if you read our comments you'll get an idea that the OP choosing to make an appeal is going to be risky and that there aren't going to be good prospects of success, unless of course there is sufficient evidence to suggest that the loan agreement used to oppose the set aside was fraudulent in which case the appeal ought to succeed because if there is no agreement, there is no proof that the claim is not statute barred.

It is now up to the OP to decide whether to appeal or not - which by the way, you have 21 days from the date of the decision being made to apply for permission to appeal, so not a long time.

Whilst I can't speculate about the OP's application, we all know that a lot of litigants in person make hasty applications without first considering whether there is sufficient grounds to set aside and if so, on what basis It is rare for a defence to focus on one point because if that can be rebutted, there is nothing else in the defence to move forward with (as in the OP's case here).

[MIKE770]

ask them to produce/investigate what they seem to believe as possible in correct information on documentation etc then the basis of any appeal could be considered! not the response in#4by GBExile

above is referred to! (Not by yourself I might add)

[GBExile]

ask them to produce/investigate what they seem to believe as possible in correct information on documentation etc then the basis of any appeal could be considered! not the response in#4by GBExile

above is referred to! (Not by yourself I might add)

Have I said something wrong?

Pretty sure Money Shop haven't got assignment notices from themselves to Dollar & then to Instant Cash Loans & then to Prac.

Same as payday uk & payday express.

Its the same model. Proven to be questionable (unlawful). The whole story is a dodgy tax write off & a money tree at the expense of the gullible or ignorant or just normal human beings that do not understand.

"The claimant - PRAC financial who apparently owe the debt (notice of assignment provided) bought the debt off Instant cash loans limited trading as the money shop in late 2016"

BUT more than likely no debt assignment from Money Shop to Dollar or Instant Cash Loans Ltd.

It is the same claim all the time. There is a proven missing link/s in the debt assignments.

The OP has already had a CCJ & another bid to get it set aside rejected "unsuccessful CCJ aside hearing".

[DD1113]

Thanks for the comments.

i have now got proof of address proving where I was at time of loamn but... this is a statement from my bank at the time....

Iv not got round to contacting money shop today but intend to tomorrow.

thank you to mike for the support too as 1st 2 responses was like asking a politician a question in due respect

will keep updated thanks

[GBExile]

Thanks for the comments.

i have now got proof of address proving where I was at time of loamn but... this is a statement from my bank at the time....

Iv not got round to contacting money shop today but intend to tomorrow.

thank you to mike for the support too as 1st 2 responses was like asking a politician a question in due respect

will keep updated thanks

Pretty sure money shop is bust.

You need to go to PRAC & ask for proof of assignment notices from Money Shop to Prac. There should be either 3 or 4 of them from one limited company to another.

That would be your defence. That they cannot prove the trail of debt from one company to another to end with PRAC.

They wont be able to provide these documents because they do not exist in full. So like I said. PRAC legally probably do not own the debt at all..

[DD1113]

The only notices of assignment I have are one from Money shop and one from PRAC.

The money shop letter states "this letter is to give you formal notice of the assignment of the debt"

One from PRAC states "we have acquired the about debt from ICL T/A The Money Shop
We enclose a copy letter from ICL T/A the Money Shop confirming our ownership of the debt (the above)


Can you confirm what other notices of assignment they should have provided me with? I am happy to upload the above letters

[GBExile]

The only notices of assignment I have are one from Money shop and one from PRAC.

The money shop letter states "this letter is to give you formal notice of the assignment of the debt"

One from PRAC states "we have acquired the about debt from ICL T/A The Money Shop
We enclose a copy letter from ICL T/A the Money Shop confirming our ownership of the debt (the above)


Can you confirm what other notices of assignment they should have provided me with? I am happy to upload the above letters

You can upload the notices & letters if you want.

But I think you are wasting your time. You had your case & lost & then appealed & lost.

You have left all this too late.

You have 4 companies (maybe one is just a trading name)... And assignment notices which will go something like this:

Money Shop to Dollar, Dollar to Instant Cash Loans & Instant Cash Loans to PRAC

Or maybe just Dollar to Instant Cash Loans & Instant Cash Loans to PRAC,

Was Money Shop a trading company in its own right or a trading name of another company at the time? Only your genuine credit agreement will clarify that.

From the Money Shop website Payday UK & Payday Express were trading names of Instant Cash Loans Ltd.

Well that is quite simply bull**** because in 2013 Payday UK & Payday Express were separate companies from Instant Cash Loans.

More than likely your loan was not with Instant Cash Loans at all. But Money Shop on its own or Dollar.

[DD1113]

Ok thanks

i have since asked Money shop for loan agreements hopefully they will get them to me asap

Just to clarify I have not appealed - all I have had is my hearing.

i will see what the loan agreements say and if they are at all different to what BW produced then I should be able to counter claim them for fraudulent documents?

if they are the same which I have a feeling will not be the case but if they are then as you say I will have to accept I have lost the case

[GBExile]

Ok thanks

i have since asked Money shop for loan agreements hopefully they will get them to me asap

Just to clarify I have not appealed - all I have had is my hearing.

i will see what the loan agreements say and if they are at all different to what BW produced then I should be able to counter claim them for fraudulent documents?

if they are the same which I have a feeling will not be the case but if they are then as you say I will have to accept I have lost the case

You need to visit companies house website to get trading information on each company & visit the Financial Conduct Authority website to understand who owned who when. Unless it says Instant Cash Loans Ltd on the original loan agreement then it might be worth appealing.

You should have the original loan agreement already??