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Duplicate claim?? What the....?!

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  • Duplicate claim?? What the....?!

    Evening all,

    Got a horrendous mess I need help with. So the first part is classic ‘car not as deacribed’ Rubbish from an eBay buyer (private sale) she’s claiming that I ‘promised’ I’d send over some paperwork (timing belt invoice) within a week of her buying the car from me. She initially came after me for the road tax, as she thought I’d stay with the car and then demanded I pay it, and then got bent out of shape about this paper work that doesn’t exist (belt was fitted by previous owner, but has no paper work, I didn’t mind taking his word for it). Anyway, she’s opened a money claim through the courts against me for that.

    However, this morning I find a letter from HM tribunals and courts, thinking it’d be some kind of update. She’s basically read the defence I’ve submitted online, taken a few quotes from it, and opened ANOTHER claim against me, for exactly the same thing. It has a alightly
    different story in it, because she doesn’t agree with what I’ve said, she’s quoted them as lies, and said I’m lying in my evidential statement. In this second claim she’s claiming for the application costs of her original claim!!!!

    Surely she can’t just change her mind on what she wants to say, and then open another claim against me?? I was slightly nervous about the first one, but having two against me for the same thing is making me feel extremely stressed and uneasy. I almost feel like she’s trying to bully me into paying her the money she wants.

    I've called CAB, but they couldn’t give me an answer, I spoke to a solicitor, but they wanted £1,000 upfront before they could even comment. I tried the courts, but they said they can’t give legal advice. All I’m after is some info regarding wether what she’s done is legal and if I can get this new case shut down in any way?

    Can she just keep opening claims against me online?

    i generally feel like it’s some kind of bullying tactic and feel harassed to quite an extent now.

    can anyone shed any light??


    thanks guys and girls
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Oh dear.... access to justice is all well and good but some people !.... grrrrr.

    Okay. First, do not be stressed. It is quite obvious she has no idea what she is doing.

    How much approx. is the claim for ? ( are both for the same amount?)

    First thing to do is contact the court and ask them if the original claim has been discontinued.... when they say no, tell them you've received a duplicate claim - they might be able to join them together or they might tell you to apply to strike it out. Really you're just checking the first is still live and getting it noted that there's a duplicate, then you can apply to strike the claim/s out once we've got a bit more info to help you with that xxx

    I assume she has used the 'new' money claim system so it looks like this?
    2018-09-16 13_32_25-Start.png
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

    If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Yep, that’s what it looks like. The first claim is about £450, the second is about £570 because she’s put the court costs of her first claim onto the second one. Both claims are still active, when I log in online they’re both there. One has my response on it, and the new one is awaiting my response. I know it sounds a bit cheeky, but does this benefit me in anyway? Does her behaviour mean they’ll maybe just get rid of the cases? Is there anything I can do to stop her opening anymore against me? Because I genuinely think she will!

      Comment


      • #4
        It sounds likely you'll end up with the second one being struck out and defending the first successfully. Annoyingly you'll probably have to pay the application fee ( we'll try consent first ) and you'll get costs awarded against her ( but only what it costs you ) so doesn't really benefit you other than hopefully knowing she's no idea what she's doing removes a bit of the stress.

        You cant call court till tmw so maybe tonight you can post up the original claim particulars, your defence and the second claim particulars and we can start looking at letters/application to get it sorted out.

        If she does carry on whacking claims in then the court could impose a vexatious litigant order against her but at the moment it seems just to be a lack of understanding of the CPRs.
        “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

        Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

        Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

        If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

        Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

        Comment


        • #5
          What would you like to know? The story gets quite bitty with lots of backwards and forwards, he said she said! It’s melting my brain a bit to be honest.

          Comment


          • #6
            Simplest would be if you can post claim, defence and new claim - then we know what we're looking at. Let me know what court say too. Then we can write telling her to withdraw claim /s or risk costs of app to strike.

            You will need to acknowledge the second claim for now too so don't forget to do that. ( ask for more time - don't enter a defence )

            An application will cost £255 court fee unless eligible for fee remission - but as this is such a small value claim that feels bonkers and unlikely she'd ever pay it back - so we could just enter a defence saying duplicate and asking to strike/merge claims. Let's see what we're working with first though xx
            “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

            Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

            If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

            Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Chris1986 View Post
              What would you like to know? The story gets quite bitty with lots of backwards and forwards, he said she said! It’s melting my brain a bit to be honest.
              Copy this template and post the answers :


              Received a claim? Yes/No:
              Issue Date:
              Have you Acknowledged the Claim?:
              Total Amount Claimed : ( approximately please do NOT use EXACT figure given on the claim form, round up to next £100 or £1000)
              Claimant’s Name:
              Solicitors Firm:
              Original Creditor:
              Original Debt (eg. Credit card/Loan/Overdraft) :
              Particulars of Claim: ( Please type out in full excluding names/account numbers/exact amounts ):
              Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?):
              List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ):
              Any Other Information or Background Details:
              Or you can post pictures of the claim forms and you defence (with personal info covered) along with a brief background of the whole saga.

              As Amethyst has said, she doesn't seem to know what she's doing and so you really ought not to worry, let alone get stressed. I have a feeling we're going to wipe the floor with her and the best bit about it is if you get a wasted costs order against her which she refuses to pay, you know she has an asset you can enforce it against.
              COMPLETING AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) GUIDE

              My posts here are based on my experience of a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training & if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact CAB. If you follow anything I write here you do so at your own risk & I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

              Private messages are disabled as help is only offered publicly. I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                Simplest would be if you can post claim, defence and new claim - then we know what we're looking at. Let me know what court say too. Then we can write telling her to withdraw claim /s or risk costs of app to strike.

                You will need to acknowledge the second claim for now too so don't forget to do that. ( ask for more time - don't enter a defence )

                An application will cost £255 court fee unless eligible for fee remission - but as this is such a small value claim that feels bonkers and unlikely she'd ever pay it back - so we could just enter a defence saying duplicate and asking to strike/merge claims. Let's see what we're working with first though xx
                I would pay the fee, apply and seek costs if the claim was for £1, she has an asset to enforce against in the classic car which I'd assume will be more than £255 in value if needs be and so she will have to pay up.

                She decided to file the claim, the consequences are of her own doing regardless of value of the claim.
                COMPLETING AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) GUIDE

                My posts here are based on my experience of a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training & if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact CAB. If you follow anything I write here you do so at your own risk & I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

                Private messages are disabled as help is only offered publicly. I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not worried about her - it's a lot to find up front and potentially not get back or at least have a lot of hassle to get back. She may back down once we write to her ( you never know - people put these kind of claims in just expecting the defendant to just pay up and don't really think through consequences ). We'll have a better idea once we see the claim particulars and defence anyway xxx
                  “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

                  Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                  Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                  If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                  Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                    Not worried about her - it's a lot to find up front and potentially not get back or at least have a lot of hassle to get back. She may back down once we write to her ( you never know - people put these kind of claims in just expecting the defendant to just pay up and don't really think through consequences ). We'll have a better idea once we see the claim particulars and defence anyway xxx
                    Yeah, I was actually thinking the same and it explains why she filed a second claim with the accusations of lies etc. It seems as if she thinks that if she disproves the defence then the OP will be scared into paying up.
                    COMPLETING AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) GUIDE

                    My posts here are based on my experience of a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training & if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact CAB. If you follow anything I write here you do so at your own risk & I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

                    Private messages are disabled as help is only offered publicly. I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      just getting ahead a little pending the documents... don't use I'm just thinking aloud. Probably being a little over helpful to the claimant tbh.

                      Dear Ms xxxx

                      Claim Ref: xxxxxx and xxxxxxx

                      On xxxxxx 2019 you issued a County Court claim XXXXXXX against me regarding your purchase of a vehicle. You will be aware that I filed my Defence with the Court on xxxxxx. To date you have failed to respond to the court in order to proceed with the claim.

                      I was surprised therefore to receive a further (duplicate) claim XXXXXX regarding the same alleged cause of action, and apparently in reply to my Defence.

                      This claim has been issued in breach of the Civil Procedure Rules and I will be asking the Court to make an order to strike out your claim pursuant to CPR 3.4(2) on the basis that that the claim is a duplicate, that the statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim; and/or that the statement of case is an abuse of the court’s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings; and/or that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order. I will also be asking the court to award the costs of such application against you.

                      In order to avoid the considerable time and costs of issuing such application you are requested to discontinue your claim against me. You can do this using the court form N279. You should do this before the date by which I am required to file a defence to your claim, being 4pm on xxxxx 2019. I would draw your attention to CPR 38.7 and CPR 38.6.

                      The original claim xxxxx will proceed through the court process and I will continue to Defend your claim in it's entirety...… other option ( discontinue no costs ) Should you fail to proceed with this claim it will be stayed by the Court and I shall ask the court for summary judgment against you and/or to strike out your statement of case and award costs against you. Should you wish to proceed on the additional grounds in your claim XXXXX you must formally apply to the court to amend your statement of case.

                      “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

                      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                      Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                      If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                      Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chris1986 View Post
                        Evening all,

                        Got a horrendous mess I need help with. So the first part is classic ‘car not as deacribed’ Rubbish from an eBay buyer (private sale) she’s claiming that I ‘promised’ I’d send over some paperwork (timing belt invoice) within a week of her buying the car from me. She initially came after me for the road tax, as she thought I’d stay with the car and then demanded I pay it, and then got bent out of shape about this paper work that doesn’t exist (belt was fitted by previous owner, but has no paper work, I didn’t mind taking his word for it). Anyway, she’s opened a money claim through the courts against me for that.

                        However, this morning I find a letter from HM tribunals and courts, thinking it’d be some kind of update. She’s basically read the defence I’ve submitted online, taken a few quotes from it, and opened ANOTHER claim against me, for exactly the same thing. It has a alightly
                        different story in it, because she doesn’t agree with what I’ve said, she’s quoted them as lies, and said I’m lying in my evidential statement. In this second claim she’s claiming for the application costs of her original claim!!!!

                        Surely she can’t just change her mind on what she wants to say, and then open another claim against me?? I was slightly nervous about the first one, but having two against me for the same thing is making me feel extremely stressed and uneasy. I almost feel like she’s trying to bully me into paying her the money she wants.

                        I've called CAB, but they couldn’t give me an answer, I spoke to a solicitor, but they wanted £1,000 upfront before they could even comment. I tried the courts, but they said they can’t give legal advice. All I’m after is some info regarding wether what she’s done is legal and if I can get this new case shut down in any way?

                        Can she just keep opening claims against me online?

                        i generally feel like it’s some kind of bullying tactic and feel harassed to quite an extent now.

                        can anyone shed any light??


                        thanks guys and girls
                        What a load of utter shite, first the CAB are disappointing if they wouldnt assist with this, second the lawyer who wanted £1k to chat simply didnt want your business, it really does frustrate me that some law firms are like that.

                        Im always happy (within reason) to chat to new clients and give them an initial view on their case and how to proceed etc, obviously there comes a point where if they want me to do the work they have to pay but i nearly always give an initial view on how to proceed first.

                        The second claim is as others have said, an abuse of process. An application to strike out would be my approach for the second claim and the first i may be tempted to apply for judgment on too, as you seem to have good grounds, and i cannot see why the Court would want to allow a meritless case to proceed.,
                        I work for Wannops LLP . I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

                        If you need to contact me please email me on Ptilley@wannops.com . My firms initial advice is always free.

                        I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

                        You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is all really good info, thanks everyone so much! When I get back from work I’ll post up all the info I’ve got and we can see what you guys think. I’m quite savvy with ‘DIY legal’ stuff, I’ve taken pre court action against finance companies for sale of good act etc in the past. But when my possible mistakes could mean I get a CCJ against me and end up paying a fair bit of money out, it’s made me crumble!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Happens to us all - don't worry ... we'll help all we are able xxx
                            “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

                            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                            Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                            If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                            Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Evening all, here’s the first case, I think it’s uploaded in a strange order, but I’m sure you’ll be able to fathom it.

                              Comment

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