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County court business centre

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  • County court business centre

    Hi, i please require help as to whether this could be statute barred or not and where to go from here, seems from research it depends on the default notice date and not the actual default date? would the notice date not be prior to the actual default date? confused and stressed.

    Received a claim? Yes
    Issue Date: 09 May 2019
    Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: NO
    Total Amount Claimed : £7000
    Claimantís Name: ARROW GLOBAL
    Solicitors Firm: DRYDENS LIMITED
    Original Creditor: HSBC
    Original Debt : BUSINESS OVERDRAFT

    Particulars of Claim: I was meant to be a signatory on a new business that I helped a friend out with as was same type of business as mine but different location, HSBC unfortunately set it up wrong and i became liable for the £5k overdraft that they let run up. Also cost me approx £1.5k in unpaid stock i supplied it.

    Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?): This is where i am not sure, it has been posted on my credit file (under ARROW) with a default date of 28/12/2012 (though it seems ARROW took the debt 28th march 2014) and is now removed due to 6 years. I have never acknowledged the debt (as it wasn't meant to be mine!) and the other party has never been chased for it either so has not acknowledged it with ARROW as they have never contacted him.

    List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ): i have not sent any
    Any Other Information or Background Details: the £5k (the figure i thought it was) became £6.5k once ARROW took it over.

    Kind regards

    *not sure if i posted original in the wrong place, apologies if so, a little stressed with it all
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Originally posted by stevegsxr View Post
    Hi, i please require help as to whether this could be statute barred or not and where to go from here, seems from research it depends on the default notice date and not the actual default date? would the notice date not be prior to the actual default date? confused and stressed.

    Received a claim? Yes
    Issue Date: 09 May 2019
    Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: NO
    Total Amount Claimed : £7000
    Claimantís Name: ARROW GLOBAL
    Solicitors Firm: DRYDENS LIMITED
    Original Creditor: HSBC
    Original Debt : BUSINESS OVERDRAFT

    Particulars of Claim: I was meant to be a signatory on a new business that I helped a friend out with as was same type of business as mine but different location, HSBC unfortunately set it up wrong and i became liable for the £5k overdraft that they let run up. Also cost me approx £1.5k in unpaid stock i supplied it.

    Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?): This is where i am not sure, it has been posted on my credit file (under ARROW) with a default date of 28/12/2012 (though it seems ARROW took the debt 28th march 2014) and is now removed due to 6 years. I have never acknowledged the debt (as it wasn't meant to be mine!) and the other party has never been chased for it either so has not acknowledged it with ARROW as they have never contacted him.

    List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ): i have not sent any
    Any Other Information or Background Details: the £5k (the figure i thought it was) became £6.5k once ARROW took it over.

    Kind regards

    *not sure if i posted original in the wrong place, apologies if so, a little stressed with it all
    First Acknowledge Claim

    Then you need to type the Particulars of Claim out verbatim or post a copy with details redacted, the "Any Other Information or Background Details" bit last of all is where you tell us the info behind the debt.
    HOW TO COMPLETE AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) FORM?

    My posts on this forum are offered based on my experience dealing with a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training and if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB. If you follow anything I write on this forum you do so at your own risk and I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

    I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

    Comment


    • #3
      many thanks for your reply, it is most appreciated.

      background i previously wrote

      "hi, without going into too much detail in 2010 i helped set up a friend as a small (sort of under my flag as we had worked together at my premises, but not for me) plumbers merchant by supplying stock (never paid for) and what i thought was being signatory on the bank account. after some time of running (was not going so well, a lot of my customers complaining never open) i was informed by our (same as my account) bank manager that the other business had nearly 5k on overdraft and what should they do, apparently i wasn't a signatory but joint account! so i said stop the overdraft. conversations were had there after and it was apparently being dealt with. last time it was mentioned by my bank manager (couple of years ago i would think) not a lot had changed but my name was still attached which it shouldn't have been and the other party was trying to amend. i have not heard anything since and assumed dealt with until a couple of weeks ago i received a letter from arrow global, which i ignored after research as i have a perfect credit score and no debts as far as i was aware.now it appears HSBC sold the debt (now £6***) to arrow on 28th march 2014, who have now sent me a 'notice of assignment' to westcot credit services. this is the first correspondence i have ever had regarding this, nothing from the bank. can any one advise next steps?"

      i now note that the amount posted on my credit file does not exactly match the amount mentioned in 2014, the amount still being claimed, around £10 difference.

      I have had made no contact with any of the parties chasing the debt.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #4
        Okay, have you acknowledged service? and if not the "Important Note" on the right of the claim form tells you how. Tick to defend in full and do not write anything else on the form. It's really important you do this to protect your legal position.

        Once you have acknowledged your defence deadline becomes 4pm on Tuesday 11th June 2019.

        I'm assuming that the business was a sole trader?

        Assuming that no monies have been paid into the account or off the debt since 28/12/2012 then the debt will be statute barred, but we need to establish that.

        You're going to need to move fast because you have already wasted 13 days. Your plan of action is:
        1. Acknowledge service if you haven't already
        2. Send a CCA Request to the claimant (top box on the claim form) with a £1 cheque or postal order with " CCA1974 STAT FEE ONLY" clearly written across the front
        3. Send a CPR 31.14 Request to the solicitors along with a copy of the CCA Request letter for copies of 1. Credit Agreement 2. Default Notice 3. Notice of assignment by letter from HSBC 4. Full History of the account (this last one they don't have to comply with, but if they do it'll show whether your mate has paid anything to the debt since 28/12/2012 and shot you in the foot).
        4. Send an Subject Access Request Letter to HSBC asking for all information they hold on you. This probably won't come back in time for your defence, but you'll know from it if they are unable to comply with your request prior to the defence filing what they may or may not be able to actually get.
        The suggestion in the PoC that you hold the credit agreement suggests to me that they don't have a copy of it. I might be wrong, but ordinarily they wouldn't say it's held by you and would simply say you entered into a credit agreement. Lets see what comes of all of these letters.
        HOW TO COMPLETE AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) FORM?

        My posts on this forum are offered based on my experience dealing with a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training and if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB. If you follow anything I write on this forum you do so at your own risk and I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

        I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

        Comment


        • #5
          i have not acknowledged, will do today.

          Yes the business would have been a sole trader in his name as far as i can recall.

          Should i do the CCA request as joint but with just my name as that is what is on the claim? He has never been mentioned though the account was in both our names?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by stevegsxr View Post
            i have not acknowledged, will do today.

            Yes the business would have been a sole trader in his name as far as i can recall.

            Should i do the CCA request as joint but with just my name as that is what is on the claim? He has never been mentioned though the account was in both our names?
            HSBC haven't set this up in just his name, its a joint account and now the claimant are pursuing you. The business was it seems a partnership of the two of you according to how HSBC set the account up based on your signatures, meaning you are liable personally for this debt. Until you get the SAR back we won't know exactly what you agreed to with HSBC, in the absence of knowing they made a mistake then you have to move forward based on the information we know.

            Everything is in your name as that's who the claim is against. CCA request to the claimant is your name only.

            I bet he didn't mention, he was busy running a business into the ground on your dime.
            HOW TO COMPLETE AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) FORM?

            My posts on this forum are offered based on my experience dealing with a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training and if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB. If you follow anything I write on this forum you do so at your own risk and I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

            I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

            Comment


            • #7
              no he didn't, 1st i knew was on a bank manager visit (for my business), mentioning as he left, that the OD was up to 5k and my response being 'and?' to be informed that it was also mine!

              1. Acknowledge - DONE
              2. CCA Request - DONE
              3. CPR Request - DONE
              4. Subject Access - DONE over the telephone (not easy), will also take paper copy to local branch tomorrow.

              I guess it's a waiting game for now?

              JAGUARSUK Your guidance and direction (kick up the backside) is truly appreciated and has lifted some weight of my mind for now, once all is done, it will not be forgotten!

              Comment


              • #8
                so far
                CCA Request - sent 22/05/19 - yet to be signed for
                CCA Request - sent again 30/05/19 - yet to be signed for
                CPR Request - sent 22/05/19 - collected and signed for 24/05/19 - no response as of today 07/06/19
                Subject Access - lengthy conversation with HSBC, request logged, received call following day for basically 'under what grounds am i requesting it', advised 'Subject access request, Data Protection Act 2018 / General Data Protection Regulations GDPR', also took paper copy to local branch, received call from them as had no information on me at 'my address' though all relevant address's included, advised to forward to the relevant HSBC contact I have been using. Received letter confirming request is being processed.

                That is all i have at the moment, basically no changes, i feel i will get no new information before the dead line.

                **EDIT** have received first CCA back, marked 'addressee gone away'
                Last edited by stevegsxr; 7th June 2019, 11:43:AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Received 08/06/19 seems they don't want to tell me this information?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    for starters = once they issue a claim they cannot put on hold, idiots trying to be clever and get judgement by default, time this practice ceased by regulators

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      jaguarsuk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        MIKE770 thanks, after reading it a couple of times i had a sneaky feeling that was to make me miss my deadline on Tuesday, i hope jaguarsuk makes an appearance (though i understand not weekends ir evenings, understandably) as i really don't know where this now leaves me

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Okay, if they havenít been able to evidence the claim have a crack at the example defence and post a copy here for review.

                          iíll then be able to insert some things about you not entering into a contract with HSBC.
                          HOW TO COMPLETE AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) FORM?

                          My posts on this forum are offered based on my experience dealing with a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training and if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB. If you follow anything I write on this forum you do so at your own risk and I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

                          I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            something like this...

                            1.The Defendant received the claim [Claim Number] from the [Name of Court Ė often Northampton or Salford] County Court on [Date you received the claim]

                            2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

                            3.This claim is an overdraft agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

                            4.It is [admitted/denied] that the Defendant has [previously] entered into [an agreement/agreement]with [Original Creditor /Claimant] for provision of credit.

                            5.The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

                            6.The Claimantís Particulars of Claim fails to state when the agreement was entered into.

                            7.The Defendant contends the alleged debt is statute barred by virtue of Section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980 in that no payment or acknowledgement has been made for over 6 years.

                            8.The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC to Arrow Global Limited but does not state a date. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

                            9.It is denied that HSBC served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant. The Claimant is required to prove that the any Default notice relied upon complied with the requirements of s88(4A) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that the notice was in the prescribed form as required by The Consumer Credit Enforcement Default and Termination Notice Regulations 1983.

                            10.On the 22/05/2019 The Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimantís statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Drydens Limited. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Credit Agreement, Default Notice, Notice of assignment by letter from HSBC and Full History of the account.

                            11 Drydens Limited has not sent any of these documents to the Defendant. (DO I MENTION THE LETTER THEY SENT AS PROOF THEY RECEIVED IT?)

                            12.On the 22/05/19 and 30/05/2019 The Defendant sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Limited pursuant to section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

                            13.The Claimant has failed to comply with section 78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of section 78 (6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

                            14.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

                            15.The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for The Defendant to fully plead his case else the Claim should stand struck out.

                            16.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimant, the Defendant will then be in a position to amend his defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

                            17.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              little update of where i am at, defence acknowledged, info only received from HSBC so far, account closed down 20/12/12 (last payment in was in OCT 2012 by HMRC though the last actual payment in by other party was early 2011!), i note there was attempts made by the other party to inform them i was only meant to be a signatory, not sure if that counts for much tbh. I also note there was no formal overdraft limit, looking through, OD was never asked for until well after it was run up! I can find no mandate either, seems they used a sales acknowledgement slip to set the new account up and linked it (wrongly) to the account that was already set up for my business, which i have the mandate for. also a couple of email records, not attached, one being regards to my request for information after they sold the debt and the other regards dormancy procedure and demand.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

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