Hello VT isuse

[Neil.p123]

Hello, I have recently VT my car agreement with PSA and have followed your advice with letters/emails informing them of the VT. My problem is that they are refusing to collect the car after I have given them 14 days notice and a further 14 days to collect it, as I will not pay the £79 collection fee they keep asking for. I have said the drop off centre is too far away (over 50 miles) for a reasonable drop off and have repeatedly told them I am under no obligation to pay the collection fee. What happens now? I have the car on my drive, with no insurance. Do they not want it? Do I notify the DVLA or threaten to sell the car? I could just leave it where it is, surely it would be in their best interest to collect it? Any advice would be really welcome. Neil.

[R0b]

Hello
It's their vehicle so they have to deal with it. They can't expect you to look after it simply because you are refusing to pay any of their collection fees (which are not recoverable by the way).

When you terminate the agreement, you become what is known as an "involuntary bailee". This usually occurs when you come into possession of goods than do not belong to you and you have not agreed to accept custody of. There are two ways of going about this:

1. Give notice of your intention to sell the goods
You have a legal defence if, having given PSA notice to collect the goods (based on what you've said you have given them sufficient notice) but they fail to do so, then you have the right to legally dispose of the goods. For vehicles, this is usually a case of selling them at auction. There is a template in the link in my signature for this if you want to go about doing that.

2. Notify DVLA of change of details and then remove vehicle from your drive
Not many people I know have actually done this because finance companies tend to collect before the expiry period (and you may run into issues selling at auction above because it might be flagged up as being on finance). That said, you could write to them and set out very clearly that:

a. You have already afforded them 28 days to collect their vehicle but they have refused.
b. The fact that you are refusing to collect the vehicle is not a valid reason to remove the vehicle from your possession.
c. It is currently sitting on your land no longer with any insurance.
d. By refusing to collect the vehicle it is trespassing on your land.
e. Unless they collect it within the next 14 days (give a specific date and time e.g. 4pm on X date) then you will inform the DVLA to change the registered keeper details, remove the vehicle from your land and put it on a public highway. You will also post the keys to their address by special delivery or some signed for delivery method) and you will not be liable for the vehicle beyond that point.

Some people get scared because finance companies might write back to you and tell you that you have an obligation to look after the goods and you are liable for anything that goes wrong. Yes, you have a duty of care to take reasonable care whilst it is in your possession, but the purpose of the above options is to make it explicitly clear that the vehicle has been abandoned and therefore you are either disposing of it or removing it from your land which is causing an obstruction.

If you put it on a public highway and it gets towed away, in my view you cannot be held liable because you have given them ample time to collect what belongs to them but they wilfully chose not to. They contributed to their own negligence of failing to pick up the vehicle so why should you shoulder all the blame?

Up to you which route you want to go down but the fastest method might be option 2, if you are comfortable with it and prepared to follow it through. I suspect they might then arrange for someone to come and get it.

If you need any help putting something together, post up a draft version of your response and I will look at it.

[Neil.p123]

Many thanks Rob. I have now written to them logging an official complaint restating the last date (which is 10/10), to collect the vehicle. So if I do not hear back from them by then I will write to them informing them about my intention to remove it from my property and informing the DVLA and posting the keys. I can’t believe they are being this difficult, the car is in great condition and has really low mileage. Thanks again. I have using your excellent templates in my previous correspondence to PSA but they just reply with one line saying “the collection fee must be paid before we can collect it” every time. I will keep you posted. Neil

[R0b]

Their first line customer service are useless and they will say what they want to say, but ultimately non-payment of the fee does not prevent or restrict them in any way form collecting their own car. They are simply being difficult and awkward and they have nobody but themselves to blame.

If you've communicated to them clearly about what you are going to do then I don't think you have anything to worry about. I would say, however, that if you intend on moving it to a public highway, you should first wait until you receive confirmation from the DVLA that the registered keeper name has been changed and secondly, take as many photos and videos as you can of the car at all possible angles because if there is any damage I do not doubt that PSA would pursue you for it.

If you don't know already, you can inform the DVLA online by going to https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle which is much faster than sending by post and avoids any issues with delivery or receipt.

[Neil.p123]

Thanks again Rob. Miraculously they have emailed saying they have been trying to contact me to arrange collection! So that’s good news they are coming on Monday 15th, no time has been given, but my wife is going to be home. I will fill out the top of the V5; I take it they will sign it? Also, video and pics of the car, keys, documents. Any other tips Rob?

[ostell]

Do the online transfer so that you are not relying on them to do the transfer of keeper. Saves you getting bitten on the bum if they get a parking ticket after collecting it form youo.

[Neil.p123]

They have taken the car and signed the logbook vehicle transfer details (which I have completed online anyway). So thankfully it is finally over. Thanks all for the advice as I have saved myself over £400 from their initial settlement figure and insurance and collection fees. Neil

[R0b]

Glad to hear it is over although I would keep an eye on your credit file on the next few months just in case they try any business.

[Neil.p123]

would you believe it, they have sent me a letter, replying to the complaint I made and still saying I owe £79 for collection it, which I did ignore from November. Today I have a letter saying I owe them £279.36, and they have instructed a debt collection company to manage it.
Where do I stand here?

[R0b]

Well they can instruct a debt collector. They cant do much other than send you a letter or contact you to demand payment. Other than that they have no real powers.

I would be careful and keep am eye on your credit file as Santander do try their luck with recording defaults or late payment markers.

You could if you wanted to write back to Santander and say that your position remains unchanged and will continue to do so. If they believe the debt is owed then they are free tofpursue legal proceedings which will of course be defended in full.

As you have made your position clear, they should recall the debt from the debt collector otherwise continued demands will be considered harassment.

Or you could ignore it all.

[Neil.p123]

Hi Rob, thanks again for answering so promptly. So I have written back to them stating that my position has not changed and they if they are still going to pursue this I will be willing to defend fully.
They are also threatening to put default and late payment markers on my credit file.
Following the original letter that I sent about not being liable for both collection and insurance fees, they have concluded that I do owe this and they copied their terms and conditions.
this states. “You must then, at your own expense, return the vehicle to us....”. “ upon activating VT on your agreement, you are responsible for the vehicle until it is confirmed onsite with our agents.”
Then they set out the two ways of delivery or collection.
I would be still right in thinking that once the VT has been terminated all further charges are void Apart from the 50% of the agreement, of course? So even if this is written in the Ts & Cs I am still within my rights to refuse to pay this? Neil

[R0b]

Hi Neil,

I have been looking into value added products in general when it comes to HP and the legislation and there is an argument where, if correctly structured in the right way, the GAP could be deemed a separate agreement despite being amalgamated into one document. That said, even if it was a separate agreement then that doesn't give them the right to terminate the GAP insurance when you've only given notice to terminate the HP side of things; you can still carry on paying the GAP on a monthly basis which is what you are entitled to do.

I've attached an example response regarding the GAP insurance and collection fees, which was taken from another thread where that person is in a similar position to yourself so might be worth a read. You may need to adjust the letter to suit your current situation.

Thread: Gap insurance and VT