Help....School Fees

[jaguarsuk]

If they have referred to terms and conditions in the form it is incumbent upon them to show those terms to win their claim, unless they can prove the terms in 2014 were sent to you as superseding those terms.

Okay having seen the conditions now I'll correct this from post #7, their terms state in 1.2 "Variations: these terms and conditions, the Conditions of Award and the fees list are subject to change from time to time." And 11.7 backs this up with "Interpretation: These terms and conditions supersede any previously in force and will be construed as a whole. Headings, unless required to make sense of the immediate context, are for ease of reading only and are not otherwise part of the terms and conditions."

To clarify is the amount being claimed a sum for one school term or the entire school year?

As you are only required to give one school term of notice you are only liable for that single terms (September to December).

There is nothing in those terms that can get around you owing a single term as the summer term runs April to July, but you served notice separately in June and August.

Another point is 9.11, have they filled your sons place with another pupil? If they have then they have suffered no loss per their terms and if you know any other parents of children in your sons class or your son has any contact with them try to find out if any new child started in the class in September.

If it is the case they are claiming for the whole year their terms state that a school term of notice is required to terminate the agreement in 9.2 and that in lieu of such notice 9.5 states that "Fees in lieu of notice means Fees in full at the rate applicable for the next Term following Withdrawal." Therefore the amount claimed is incorrect.

If they have replaced your son then clause 9.11 relieves you of any obligation to them "Withdrawal by the Parents: If the Pupil is withdrawn on less than a Term's Written Notice, or excluded for more than 28 days for non payment of Fees as set out in clause 4.6, Fees in lieu of notice less the Returnable Deposit will be due and payable as a debt immediately unless the place is filled immediately and without loss to the <<school>>."

Dependant on the situation then either filing a defence on those basis or you may consider making an application to strike out the claim, but this has a cost of £255 recoverable from them if successful. Any application to the court carries a risk of a hefty costs award against you if unsuccessful though.

[Farmer Jones]

Okay having seen the conditions now I'll correct this from post #7, their terms state in 1.2 "Variations: these terms and conditions, the Conditions of Award and the fees list are subject to change from time to time." And 11.7 backs this up with "Interpretation: These terms and conditions supersede any previously in force and will be construed as a whole. Headings, unless required to make sense of the immediate context, are for ease of reading only and are not otherwise part of the terms and conditions."

To clarify is the amount being claimed a sum for one school term or the entire school year?

As you are only required to give one school term of notice you are only liable for that single terms (September to December).

There is nothing in those terms that can get around you owing a single term as the summer term runs April to July, but you served notice separately in June and August.

Another point is 9.11, have they filled your sons place with another pupil? If they have then they have suffered no loss per their terms and if you know any other parents of children in your sons class or your son has any contact with them try to find out if any new child started in the class in September.

If it is the case they are claiming for the whole year their terms state that a school term of notice is required to terminate the agreement in 9.2 and that in lieu of such notice 9.5 states that "Fees in lieu of notice means Fees in full at the rate applicable for the next Term following Withdrawal." Therefore the amount claimed is incorrect.

If they have replaced your son then clause 9.11 relieves you of any obligation to them "Withdrawal by the Parents: If the Pupil is withdrawn on less than a Term's Written Notice, or excluded for more than 28 days for non payment of Fees as set out in clause 4.6, Fees in lieu of notice less the Returnable Deposit will be due and payable as a debt immediately unless the place is filled immediately and without loss to the <<school>>."

Dependant on the situation then either filing a defence on those basis or you may consider making an application to strike out the claim, but this has a cost of £255 recoverable from them if successful. Any application to the court carries a risk of a hefty costs award against you if unsuccessful though.

Hi

I can confirn that the school are chasing me for one terms fees.

I can also confirm that last September there were an additional ten pupils in my son's class, increasing the size by 30%

Can you advise my next course of action..?

Defend on the basis of s9.11 ? Or apply to strike out ?

How do I do those ?

Thanks very much for all you help, its been seriously strssing me and have been worried abut baliffs and all that.

FJ

[jaguarsuk]

Hi

I can confirn that the school are chasing me for one terms fees.

I can also confirm that last September there were an additional ten pupils in my son's class, increasing the size by 30%

Can you advise my next course of action..?

Defend on the basis of s9.11 ? Or apply to strike out ?

How do I do those ?

Thanks very much for all you help, its been seriously strssing me and have been worried abut baliffs and all that.

FJ

The decision to defend or apply to strike out is dependant on your means, as the latter has a cost of £255 to make the application. As stated above the cost is recoverable from them if successful, but any application to the court carries a risk of a hefty costs award against you if unsuccessful though.

Filing a Defence is free though.

The key to either being successful is going to be presenting proof that the class size has increased. If you can prove this then on the basis of clause 9.11 they have no claim against you as there is no cause of action and they have suffered no loss per their own terms.

[Farmer Jones]

Hi all

Thanks very much for all the help on this.

I am defending the case.

I want to ascertain that the number of pupils in the school has increased in the particular year group (I am informed that the school has increased the number of classes in the year to accommodate the new pupils.

The schools solicitor has demanded that I put all correspondence through them. Do I write to them or the school to ascertain this information ?

I want other information from the school as well. Do I need to write a specifically structured letter to obtain the information ?.

Witnesses: I have a letter and statement from my former wife, would it be acceptable to bring her to court as a witness ?

FJ

[Farmer Jones]

And....

I received the Claim Form from the claimant.

It didn't include the financial statements (my income & expenditure) that I had sent to them. (I am on a Debt Management Plan with significant Debts due to a business failure).

(To be honest even if the claimant wins, all I can afford to pay is about £5 a month and think that this is a waste of the courts time)

Thoughts ?

[jaguarsuk]

First and foremost Acknowledge service of the claim, use the First Steps guide if you are unsure how. Tick to defend in full and do not put any information in the defence box - leave it blank. Do this now and then read the rest of this post if you haven't already done it.

I want to ascertain that the number of pupils in the school has increased in the particular year group (I am informed that the school has increased the number of classes in the year to accommodate the new pupils.

The schools solicitor has demanded that I put all correspondence through them. Do I write to them or the school to ascertain this information ?

Now a claim has been filed all correspondence goes to the address for service on the claim form.

I want other information from the school as well. Do I need to write a specifically structured letter to obtain the information ?.

All letters will go to the solicitor if they are the address for service on the claim form. What information do you want from the school?

Witnesses: I have a letter and statement from my former wife, would it be acceptable to bring her to court as a witness ?

Yes, she can attend court and this will be handled at the Directions questionnaire stage of the claim.

And....

I received the Claim Form from the claimant.

You should have now Acknowledged Service, so now either type out the particulars of claim or post a copy of it with personal information obscured. What court is listed on the claim?

It didn't include the financial statements (my income & expenditure) that I had sent to them. (I am on a Debt Management Plan with significant Debts due to a business failure).

(To be honest even if the claimant wins, all I can afford to pay is about £5 a month and think that this is a waste of the courts time)

Thoughts ?

Unfortunately some people fail to realise that if a defendant has no means to pay then a judgement is only worth the piece of paper it is written on and on the face of things that it what this appears to be.

Keep a copy of the I&E you submitted to them as if you do lose the claim you can then present it to the court to ask them to order an affordable repayment to you. The other side will of course object and you will have to counter that anything higher will simply mean you would default on the courts judgement.

Your priority is proving they have added those new pupils, are you friendly with another parent who could access the class information from previous year on the schools parent portal and this years?

Ideally we need to obtain this information before filing the defence and if you don't then we'll use Part 18 questions to do it.

[Farmer Jones]

My Defence....

Comments please....urgently !!



DEFENCE
1. I received the claim XXXXX from the County Court Money Claims Centre County Court on 2 June 2018
2. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.
3. This claim is in the sum of £5,000 due and owing in respect of fees due in lieu of notice.
4. A contract was entered into on XX/YY/ZZ between the claimant and defendant and Mrs defendent in respect of our son ABC. A copy of the signed Acceptance Form is attached, marked "A".
5. The Acceptance Form specifically states "...Terms and Conditions and School Rules are enclosed...". A copy of the Terms and Conditions are attached, marked "B"
6. On 22nd April 2017 Mrs Defendent wrote to the school via email giving notice that ABC would be leaving the school at the end of the academic year. Item Marked "C"
7. On 26th April 2017 the school wrote to Mrs Defendent acknowledging the termination. Item marked "D". The school has acknowledged that the contract had been terminated Jointly and Severally, as stated in its terms & conditions. Signed by the Headmaster.
8. On the 11th May 2017 the defendant wrote to the school requesting ABC remain at the school. Item marked "E".
9. On the 14 June 2017 Mrs Defendent sent another email to headmaster at the school. Item marked "F" indicating that ABC would be leaving the school.
10. On 2nd August 2017 the defendant wrote to the school indicating ABC would not be returning. This was a result of a Family Court Case on 1st August 2017 whereby it was ordered that ABC attend ANOTHER SCHOOL.
11. I understand that the relevant class size has increased such that the year has been divided into three classes, due to an increase in the number of pupils.
12. Section 9.11 of the Terms and Conditions (item marked "B") indicates that if my sons place at the school has been filled by another pupil then the school has no claim against me as there is no cause of action and they have suffered no loss per their own terms.
13. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary information about the class sizes in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.
14. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.
15. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

[jaguarsuk]

Can you confirm that the POC in post #1 each paragraph is numbered in the POC served on you?

[Farmer Jones]

PoC ?
The Particulars of claim are not numbered.....

[jaguarsuk]

1. The Claimants claim the sum of £x,xxx due and owing in respect fees due in lieu of notice.

2. A contract ("the Contract") was entered into between the Claimant, the Defendant and Mrs Defendant, on or around 1 June 2012 in respect of their son XX Defendant by way of the Defendant and Mrs Defendant signing the Claimants Acceptance Form. A copy of that Acceptance Form is attached hereto and Marked "A". That Acceptance Form specifically states "...Terms and Conditions and School Rules are enclosed...." A Copy of the Terms and Conditions governing the Contract are attached hereto and marked "B".

3.On or around 20 April 2017 Mrs Defendent gave notice under the Terms and Conditions to remove son (XX Defendant) from the school. However, this notice was superseeded by the Defendents email to the Claimant of 11 May stating "..it is my intention that XX Defendent remains attending the school for the foreseeable future..." The Defendent sent a further email to the Claimant on the 16 May stating "...I consider it best that XX Defendent remains at the school...". On the strength of the Defendants email the Claimant kept a place open for XX Defendent and emailed the Defendent on the 16 May stating that if XX Defendent were to stay at the school it would "...be on the basis that you were taking sole responsibility for the contract..." and confirmed in a furthe email sent to the Defendent that day that XX Defendent "...would not be regarded as a leaver..."

4. The Defendent emailed the Claimant on 2 August 2017 stating that XX Deendent would not be returning to the school in September failing to provide, under the Terms and Conditions, the adequite notice. The Claimant duly raised the their invoice in respect of fees due in lieu of notice which invoice, the original of which is in the possession of the Defendent..is numbered 12345 and dated 16th August 2017 in the sum of £x,xxx. That invoice remains outstanding in its entirety. A copy of the invoice is attached hereto and marked "C".

5. A PAPDC conpliant Letter Before Action was sent to the Defendent on 27 February 2018 a copy of which is attached hereto and marked "D".

6. The Claimant is claiming reimbursment of their legal costs under Clause 4.7 of the Terms and Conditions which states "....The Parents shall also be liable to pay all costs, fees, disbursements and charges including legal fees and costs reasonably incurred by the school in the recovery of any unpaid fees..." As at the date of this Claim Form the costs stand at £ccc.00.

Once the Claimants PoC are numbered as above, I would go with:

1. I received the claim XXXXX from the County Court Money Claims Centre Salford on 2 June 2018.
2. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.
3. Reproduced and with numbered paragraphs are the Claimants Particulars of Claim enlclosed and marked FJ01.
4. References to paragraph numbers shall be construed as references to the corresponding paragraphs set out in the Particulars of Claim unless stated as being that numbered paragraph in the Defence.
5. Paragraph 1 is denied.
6. Paragraph 2 is admitted.
7. Paragraph 3 is denied,
   1. The Claimant has increased the class size and replaced the Defendants child in their class with another pupil. No place was kept open for the Defendant.
   2. No new contract was signed or entered into by the Defendant with the Claimant solely or otherwise.
   3. On 26th April 2017 the Claimant wrote to Defendants wife acknowledging the termination. The Claimant acknowledged that correspondence and that the contract had been terminated jointly and severally, as stated in its terms & conditions.
8. Paragraph 4 is admitted
9. Paragraph 5 is denied, the invoice is not owed as per paragraph 7.1 of this Defence another pupil has replaced the Defendants child and pursuant to clause 9.11 of the terms and conditions of the agreement entered into on or around 01/06/2012 marked “B” in the Claimants Statement of Case no fees in lieu are thus due.
10. Paragraph 6 is admitted, In compliance with the order of the Family Court at <<PLACE>> made on <<DATE>> the Defendant informed the Claimant of the decision.
11. Paragraph 7 is denied, it has been demonstrated that the Claimant is not entitled to fees in lieu of notice and they brought this claim of their own volition they should therefore bear their own cost of this endeavour.
12. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) “Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation.” Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be put to the strictest proof to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.
13. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.
14. I respectfully request that this claim be dismissed pursuant to CPR 24.2(a)(i) in that the “claimant has no real prospect of succeeding on the claim.”

In your defence you request the court order the class size be disclosed, they won't you need to send Part 18 questions as I suggested in post #21 to the Solicitor and they will be unlikely to comply with them. This would have been very advantageous to your defence.

As you have not provided an issue date in post #1 I assume you are at the deadline to file a Defence and therefore you will still need to send the Part 18 questions to be used in conjunction with your witness statement.

[jaguarsuk]

PoC ?
The Particulars of claim are not numbered.....

They should have been, you'll need to reproduce them numbering the paragraphs as I have in post #25

[Farmer Jones]

Once the Claimants PoC are numbered as above, I would go with:



In your defence you request the court order the class size be disclosed, they won't you need to send Part 18 questions as I suggested in post #21 to the Solicitor and they will be unlikely to comply with them. This would have been very advantageous to your defence.

As you have not provided an issue date in post #1 I assume you are at the deadline to file a Defence and therefore you will still need to send the Part 18 questions to be used in conjunction with your witness statement.

Thanks

I am re-typing. How do I send part 18 questions ?

[jaguarsuk]

Thanks

I am re-typing. How do I send part 18 questions ?

In para 7 of the defence use i, ii & iii instead of 1, 2 & 3 - the forum wouldn't allow me to use them for some reason. And change para 9 to read 7 i instead of 7.1.

Use the template I have uploaded for Part 18.

Number the questions and I'd simply ask:

1. Please confirm the number of pupils in year X in September 2016?
2. Please confirm the number of pupils in year X in September 2017?

X being your sons year in the school, so if first year in 2016 year 7 and then 8 in 2017 for example. Nothing more needed.

File a copy with the court along with a Certificate of service.

Send the Part 18 to the solicitor today, hopefully they'll answer before the court sends them a copy of your defence as they are relatively simple questions to answer.

[Farmer Jones]

Thanks

I have re-numbered the defence & it all works fine now.

Thanks very much, I'll let you know how I get on...

[Farmer Jones]

Hi all

I have now received a reply to my part 18 Question.

The number of pupils in Year 6 in September 2016 was X
The number of pupils in Year 7 in September 2017 was X plus 20 (that's twenty more pupils).

The answer has been filed at the court.

What are my next steps ?7

FJ