Help....School Fees

[jaguarsuk]

Hi all

I have now received a reply to my part 18 Question.

The number of pupils in Year 6 in September 2016 was X
The number of pupils in Year 7 in September 2017 was X plus 20 (that's twenty more pupils).

The answer has been filed at the court.

What are my next steps ?7

FJ

I'm actually surprised they answered with the numbers as it plays right into the fact that they increased his class size and therefore clause 9.11 applies. It may be that they answered them before receiving the defence as I said in post #28.

Hopefully the solicitor will advise having reviewed the defence and your points that they should discontinue, however they might not as then they can increase their costs.

They have 28 days to reply to your defence and state whether they wish to proceed. If they do then you will be sent an N180 Directions questionnaire (Small Claims Track) and I prefer to fill mine in then print them from here: https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/PDFForms/N180.pdf

My handwriting is terrible you see.

In completing the form go with:

A1 tick yes for mediation, you need to appear to be trying to be reasonable and it is also incumbent upon you to try to settle the claim without need of a hearing.

Mediation takes place by phone and you won't be in a conference call with the solicitor. It's a one hour appointment where the mediator will ring you to get your views and then ring them to hear theirs, then go back and forth throughout the hour to try to settle it.

C1 tick yes, you don't want to be in the other tracks with their costs implications.

D1 you should put the name and address of your local court (find here) and "Defendants Home Court persuant to CPR 26.2A(3)."

D2 tick no because there's no expert witnesses.

D3 put 1 if just you or however many you might call to testify plus 1 for you.

You will then send a copy to the court and a copy to the claimant's solicitor with a cover letter, something like:

Dear Sirs

Re: Them -v- You - Claim <<CLAIM NO>>

I write regarding the above matter in the County Court Money Claim Centre.

Enclosed is a copy of my form N180 Directions questionnaire (Small Claims Track) by way of service upon you and I confirm that the same has been filed with the court.

Yours sincerely



<<YOUR NAME>>
Enc.

At that point a date for a hearing will be set and directions will be given for filing of witness statements with the court as well as service upon each other (usually 14 days before the hearing).

Finally then you will attend the hearing and state your case, more advice about that near the time.

[Farmer Jones]

I have received a form N149A Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Fast Track with a mediation form attached.

Any ideas ?

[jaguarsuk]

I have received a form N149A Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Fast Track with a mediation form attached.

Any ideas ?

Okay N149A is Small Claims Track not Fast Track. Could you post a copy of the order just to make sure as there's a big difference between the two?

Did it come with an N180 Directions questionnaire (Small Claims Track) that looks like this: https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/PDFForms/N180.pdf

If so complete it and return it to the court as well as serve the other side. I prefer to fill mine in via that link then print them due to my handwriting being terrible.

In completing the form go with:

A1 tick yes for mediation, you need to appear to be trying to be reasonable and it is also incumbent upon you to try to settle the claim without need of a hearing.

Mediation takes place by phone and you won't be in a conference call with the solicitor. It's a one hour appointment where the mediator will ring you to get your views and then ring them to hear theirs, then go back and forth throughout the hour to try to settle it.

C1 tick yes, you don't want to be in the other tracks with their costs implications.

D1 you should put the name and address of your local court (find here) and "Defendants Home Court persuant to CPR 26.2A(3)."

D2 tick no because there's no expert witnesses.

D3 put 1 if just you or however many you might call to testify plus 1 for you.

You will then send a copy to the court and a copy to the claimant's solicitor with a cover letter, something like:

Dear Sirs

Re: Them -v- You - Claim <<CLAIM NO>>

I write regarding the above matter in the County Court Money Claim Centre.

Enclosed is a copy of my form N180 Directions questionnaire (Small Claims Track) by way of service upon you and I confirm that the same has been filed with the court.

Yours sincerely



<<YOUR NAME>>
Enc.

[Farmer Jones]

N180 sent to Claimants Solicitors and Lodged with the Court.
I am requesting 3 witnesses including myself.

What happens next ?

[jaguarsuk]

N180 sent to Claimants Solicitors and Lodged with the Court.
I am requesting 3 witnesses including myself.

What happens next ?

You'll get contacted by the Small Claims Mediation Team if they have also agreed to mediation and if not then you'll get an order detailing a hearing date with directions for filing evidence.

As you intend on 3 witnesses you need to get Witness Statements from each, so it's best to do that now rather than later and then once you have theirs make a start on yours.

[Farmer Jones]

Quick question...?

The Particulars of claim: is this all the claimant can use in court or can they use other items not listed or referenced in the PoC ?

Background: in the letter before action the claimant refer to & reproduces part of an email regarding payment. This email is not referenced in the PoC...Can they use the email (or part of it) referenced in the letter before action as part of their claim ?

[jaguarsuk]

Quick question...?

The Particulars of claim: is this all the claimant can use in court or can they use other items not listed or referenced in the PoC ?

Background: in the letter before action the claimant refer to & reproduces part of an email regarding payment. This email is not referenced in the PoC...Can they use the email (or part of it) referenced in the letter before action as part of their claim ?

Yes, 14 days prior to the hearing there will be the opportunity to file and serve Witness Statements detailing each parties whole view of the situation plus enclosing all evidence to be replied upon.

Is there something you have omitted to tell us when we compiled your defence?

[Farmer Jones]

In the letter before action the solicitors are quoting an extract of an email from me to the schools finance director....

"....... However at this point in time I have no way of
paying the fees. I do intend to pay them....."

Having read the documentation over the weekend I am now guessing that the school will rely on this and hold this against me ?

Is that correct ?

[jaguarsuk]

In the letter before action the solicitors are quoting an extract of an email from me to the schools finance director....

"....... However at this point in time I have no way of
paying the fees. I do intend to pay them....."

Having read the documentation over the weekend I am now guessing that the school will rely on this and hold this against me ?

Is that correct ?

Yes, essentially they will say this is admitting that the debt is due. However your counter argument will be that you have since had time to look at the terms and become aware that in fact no fee is due, so that is why you did not follow that intention through.

[Farmer Jones]

Thanks.The other side have agreed to mediation and I have now received the mediation notification and have 3 weeks to prepare.

What should I expect ? The letter says I should be prepared to compromise....

[jaguarsuk]

Thanks.The other side have agreed to mediation and I have now received the mediation notification and have 3 weeks to prepare.

What should I expect ? The letter says I should be prepared to compromise....

It'll be a one hour telephone appointment where the mediator will listen to both sides of the claim and try to negotiate settlement. You won't talk with or hear the other side the mediator will just call each of you back and forth.

The wording of the letter is standard, you don't need to compromise as by the terms of their contract you do not owe any fees in lieu. Simply explain to the mediator what the contract says, that they have admitted to increasing the class size via a CPR Part 18 request and therefore replaced your child, so you owe them nothing.

[Peridot]

Hi Farmer Jones,

Don't panic. Of course both of you will be coming from opposite ends. The school want the full amount and you want to pay as little as possible. The fact they are prepared to mediate is a good sign. There is always a risk with litigation that no matter how good the argument of one party is they could still lose.

You have your figures, and your arguments why you shouldn't be expected to pay the sum they demand. A mediation is not a mash up of the legal arguments it is purely to try and facilitate a settlement without the need to go through the whole Court process with the associated stress and cost to those involved.

It is not just about money. You can think a little more outside the box, maybe think what would make it seem like the have taken your concerns seriously, is it all about the money, or would an apology go some way to assisting you reach agreement. All of this can be raised in the mediation.

Think what figure is your best case scenario and also what figure you would be prepared to go up to so the matter can be finalised and a line drawn. It is worth bearing in mind the cost of carrying on with this through the Court and the risk you may lose. That may help you make a decision about what would be a 'compromise' figure you would be willing to pay albeit grudgingly to end the matter.

Will you have a legal representative with you? Just for support and guidance as I mention above the purpose of the mediation is not to go through the legal arguments but try and reach an agreement that both sides can live with. Has the mediator been agreed yet. Have they asked for any copy documents or has the School's lawyers asked you to check a list of documents being sent to the mediator prior to the appointment?

You may find some other pointers here:- http://www.civilmediation.org/about-...-is-mediation-
This site is an Australian site but the process is set out quite well and gives an indication of what to expect:- http://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/Page...tion_wysk.aspx
Here is a UK site explanation:- https://www.lawdonut.co.uk/business/...esolution-faqs

Hope that helps.

[Peridot]

I hadn't spotted jaguarsuk post when I wrote my blurb. I would defer to him as my experience is far more down the line of the litigation route and more likely to be a meeting rather than a call. It would still be useful to look at the web links maybe as it is useful to see how the mediators plan and try to facilitate agreement.

[Farmer Jones]

Well...I had the mediation call and the other side offered to settle for £3.5K.

I refused as far as I am concerned I owe them nothing.

They are now saying that the increase in pupils from one year to the next (20 plus pupils) is due to the transition from primary to secondary, and that they can prove that a place was held open for my son.

Section 9.11 of the contract says:

9.11 Withdrawal by the Parents: If the Pupil is withdrawn on less than a Term's Written Notice, or excluded for more than 28 days for non-payment of Fees as set out in clause 4.6, Fees in lieu of notice less the Returnable Deposit will be due and payable as a debt immediately unless the place is filled immediately and without loss to the College.

My position is that s 9.11 does not indicate anything about exceptions (transition from primary to secondary). In addition they are saying they can prove a place was kept open.....

Comments ?

Now waiting for a court date...

[jaguarsuk]

Well...I had the mediation call and the other side offered to settle for £3.5K.

I refused as far as I am concerned I owe them nothing.

They are now saying that the increase in pupils from one year to the next (20 plus pupils) is due to the transition from primary to secondary, and that they can prove that a place was held open for my son.

Section 9.11 of the contract says:

9.11 Withdrawal by the Parents: If the Pupil is withdrawn on less than a Term's Written Notice, or excluded for more than 28 days for non-payment of Fees as set out in clause 4.6, Fees in lieu of notice less the Returnable Deposit will be due and payable as a debt immediately unless the place is filled immediately and without loss to the College.

My position is that s 9.11 does not indicate anything about exceptions (transition from primary to secondary). In addition they are saying they can prove a place was kept open.....

Comments ?

Now waiting for a court date...

You already have a grasp of what your argument should be, there terms do not explicitly say the place must be filled by pupils in addition to those transitioning and therefore that is an irrelevant argument on their part.

They I'm sure will try to say a place was held open, but the fact of the matter is that your child left and 1 replaced them with the school taking a further 19 (if I remember correctly they answered the Part 18 that 20 increase in size) in addition. Clause 9.11 applies and you owe them nothing.