Help....School Fees

[Farmer Jones]

Help!




Received a claim? Yes
Issue Datex May 2018
Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: Not yet
Total Amount Claimed: xxxx.00
Claimant’s Name: Prefer not to say
Solicitors Firm: Local Firm
Original Creditor: Private School
Original Debt (eg. Credit card/Loan/Overdraft) : Monies due for fees in lieu of notice
Particulars of Claim:

The Claimants claim the sum of £x,xxx due and owing in respect fees due in lieu of notice.

A contract ("the Contract") was entered into between the Claimant, the Defendant and Mrs Defendant,
on or around 1 June 2012 in respect of their son XX Defendant by way of the Defendant and Mrs

Defendant signing the Claimants Acceptance Form. A copy of that Acceptance Form is attached hereto

and Marked "A". That Acceptance Form specifically states "...Terms and Conditions and Schol Rules

are enclosed...." A Copy of the Terms and Conditions governing the Contract are attached hereto and

marked "B".

On or around 20 April 2017 Mrs Defendent gave notice under the Terms and Conditions to remove son

(XX Defendant) from the school. However, this notice was superseeded by the Defendents email to the

Claimant of 11 May stating "..it is my intention that XX Defendent remains attending the school for

the foreseeable future..." The Defendent sent a further email to the Claimant on the 16 May

stating "...I consider it best that XX Defendent remains at the school...". On the strength of the

Defendants email the Claimant kept a place open for XX Defendent and emailed the Defendent on the

16 May stating that if XX Defendent were to stay at the school it would "...be on the basis that

you were taking sole responsibility for the contract..." and confirmed in a furthe email sent to

the Defendent that day that XX Defendent "...would not be regarded as a leaver..."

The Defendent emailed the Claimant on 2 August 2017 stating that XX Deendent would not be returning

to the school in September failing to provide, under the Terms and Conditions, the adequite notice.

The Claimant duly raised the their invoice in respect of fees due in lieu of notice which invoice,

the original of which is in the possession of the Defendent..is numbered 12345 and dated 16th

August 2017 in the sum of £x,xxx. That invoice remains outstanding in its entirety. A copy of the

invoice is attached hereto and marked "C".

A PAPDC conpliant Letter Before Action was sent to the Defendent on 27 February 2018 a copy of

which is attached hereto and marked "D".

The Claimant is claiming reimbursment of their legal costs under Clause 4.7 of the Terms and

Conditions which states "....The Parents shall also be liable to pay all costs, fees,

disbursements and charges including legal fees and costs reasonably incurred by the school in the

recovery of any unpaid fees..." As at the date of this Claim Form the costs stand at £ccc.00


The Claimant therefore claims:

1. The sum of £xxxx
2. Contractual interest pursuant to Clause 4.7 of the Terms and Conditions being 1.5% per month

being the sum of £zzz.zz from the date payment fell due to the date of these proceedings; continuing

thereafter at the daily rate of £a.bc until payment OR at such rate and for such period as the

Court deems appropriate.
3. Costs (currently £abc.00)




Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?):No
List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ) None so far
Any Other Information or Background Details:

My wife & I separated in Dec 2016. I went through a very bad time, lost my business, unemployed, ended up homeless and estranged from my former wife from Dec 2016 - Feb 2018 we never spoke.

My wife gave notice to the school about removing our son, which was accepted by the headmaster. She also indicated that she would not be liable for fees and that I was unemployed and therefore did not have means to pay in future (it was paid up until July 2017). This was given on the basis of a Joint & Severally liable manner. The headmaster contacted me asking what I wanted to do about our son attending the school. At the time I had no idea my former wife had given notice, hence my response.

On 1 August 2018 we went to court and it was agreed that our son would not stay at the school, hence my email of the 2 August.

I am now being pursued for the money, as above. The school cannot supply me with a copy of the original T&C's from 2013...the nearest version is 2014.

The school issued an Acceptance Form (that both parents signed) in 2012 which refers to a Terms and Conditions contract. The Acceptance Form does not say the T&C's will change from time to time.(important ?)
The Terms and Conditions contract states in Section 2.4 "The parents are legally responsible, jointly and severally for complying with their obligations...." but later in Section 9.2 the contract states that both parents must agree to giving notice".

Please help. I can only go to court as a litigant in person as I have no spare cash. What are my options ? I submitted my StepChange Debt Charity statement of finances to the solicitor who is representing the school, and my monthly disposable income is £25 and I am paying off £60K of debt with a Debt Management Plan (I am now working and am renting a place...) please help.

FJ

[GBExile]

"and my monthly disposable income is £25 and I am paying off £60K of debt with a Debt Management Plan "

"lost my business, unemployed, ended up homeless"

Stop paying the debt management plan.

Pay £680 to go bankrupt & list this as a debt with all the others

Game over & get on with your life.

[MIKE770]

know which one I would consider No 3 , you have no assets?

[Farmer Jones]

know which one I would consider No 3 , you have no assets?

Sorry, I don't understand "No 3" ?

[MIKE770]

Bankrupt? but as you say you have assets or partial it could be a problem, ! will flag up this thread for help! Peridot

[Kati]

tagging Amethyst too xx

[jaguarsuk]

The first thing you need to do is Acknowledge Service of the claim to protect your legal position.

If they have referred to terms and conditions in the form it is incumbent upon them to show those terms to win their claim, unless they can prove the terms in 2014 were sent to you as superseding those terms.

I think your problem lies in that clause about both parents giving notice as clearly you both didn't until 2nd August.

You're going to have to upload the full T&C's marked "B" with any identifying information removed for us to look through.

I do think given your financial position they are flogging a dead horse, but I would caution against going bankrupt as suggested in post #2 as you have assets which could potentially mean being forced to sell them.

[GBExile]

The first thing you need to do is Acknowledge Service of the claim to protect your legal position.

If they have referred to terms and conditions in the form it is incumbent upon them to show those terms to win their claim, unless they can prove the terms in 2014 were sent to you as superseding those terms.

I think your problem lies in that clause about both parents giving notice as clearly you both didn't until 2nd August.

You're going to have to upload the full T&C's marked "B" with any identifying information removed for us to look through.

I do think given your financial position they are flogging a dead horse, but I would caution against going bankrupt as suggested in post #2 as you have £120K in assets which could potentially mean selling the family home and I'm sure your wife would be less than impressed about that.

Post #2 referred to the OP having no two pieces of brass to rub together as he stated. He has now corrected his financial position.

[jaguarsuk]

Post #2 referred to the OP having no two pieces of brass to rub together as he stated. He has now corrected his financial position.

Wasn't a criticism mate, just making sure the OP knows the risks.

Do me a favour and edit your post to reflect how I have edited mine in #7 changing the last para to

I do think given your financial position they are flogging a dead horse, but I would caution against going bankrupt as suggested in post #2 as you have assets which could potentially mean being forced to sell them.

And FJ edit your posts to remove the value and type of your assets.

The reason is that if they happen to stumble across this on the web either prior to or after being successful in getting a CCJ then they won't know what exactly your assets are thus preventing them enforcing on them.

Their enforcement options would be one of the following:

Attachment of Earnings Order - taking money out of a debtors pay at source.
Warrant of Control - an instruction to bailiffs to recover the money or goods to the value of a judgement for sale at auction.
Writ of Control - an instruction to High Court Enforcement Officers to recover the money or goods to the value of a judgement for sale at auction.
Charge on Property - the court orders a charge the debtor’s land or property. The claimant could then further apply for sale of the land or property to settle the judgement.
Order to Freeze Assets - an order freezing bank accounts or other assets until the settlement of the judgement.

However, hopefully it won't come to that and we'll see once you post the T&C's.

As the contract is joint and severally liable I think you will have to argue that clause 9.2 is an unfair clause and ask the judge rule it so, then that by your wife terminating the contract both your liabilities were discharged at that point and that the subsequent emails as a result of miscommunication due to being separated do not re-enter you into a contract that had already been discharged.

[Farmer Jones]

I have sent the Acknowledge Service of the claim, indicating I intend to defend all of the claim.

I can upload the T&C's this evening, but am concerned they will identify me....I'll obfuscate them as best I can.

I don't have any spare cash and will be a litigant in person.

FJ

[Kati]

Slightly more info here too - http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...-claim-dispute

[jaguarsuk]

I have sent the Acknowledge Service of the claim, indicating I intend to defend all of the claim.

I can upload the T&C's this evening, but am concerned they will identify me....I'll obfuscate them as best I can.

I don't have any spare cash and will be a litigant in person.

FJ

The T&C's are the foundation of their case, I know you have stated they are about 30 pages long (yay I love reading 30 page T&C's) and it's a pain to do, but this is really where this case is going to be won or lost. I'm hoping there is a severability clause to allow the judge to rule on 9.2 of the contract and then the remainder be in force to then defeat the claim due to your wife discharging the contract.

This is going to be a very complicated case to argue as LiP.

Slightly more info here too - http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...-claim-dispute

It'd be worth merging the two as the previous was at LBA stage and now a claim has been issued, so it would read as a proper timeline so to speak if this thread was added to that one.

[Peridot]

Hi Farmer Jones,

After your original posting on the link Kati added above at post #11, did you get any further with the complaint to the school regarding the bullying?

Did the school know that you and your ex wife had separated/divorced? Were there any arrangements in place regarding fee payments, if the school were aware of your separation?

As others mentioned in the other thread, I suspect the e-mail correspondence you had with the Head will be significant. I assume when he called you, he informed you that your ex had said your son was being removed from the school? Why did you feel he should stay there or was this all down to what the head said about the bullying situation and how it was allegedly being dealt with?

Were you not communicating with your ex by this stage? Is your ex included in the claim? As you are jointly and severally responsible for the fees you should both be Defendants in this case?

Have you reached a financial settlement in your divorce and were the school fees factored into this, assuming you were aware of the issue at the time?

Sorry more questions than answers at this point.

[GBExile]

Wasn't a criticism mate, just making sure the OP knows the risks.

No offence taken. & as the facts are no longer on the thread then I cannot comment further... Other than advise a good divorce lawyer or arrange a charge on the property.

Heaven knows one of the debtors might want to put a claim in on the property & then it will all be over & done with.

Yes. The OP might not get his £120k in property less debts of £60k but. I know what I would do.

[Farmer Jones]

Hi Farmer Jones,

After your original posting on the link Kati added above at post #11, did you get any further with the complaint to the school regarding the bullying?

No. I raised the complaint to the school governors, who decided not to reply, I raised it to the head master, who decided not to reply, I raised it to the "head office of the school" they referred it back to the headmaster. I requested a copy of the schools bullying policy...the school didn't send me a copy..I requested a copy of the schools complaints procedure...they didn't send me a copy...I asked for a copy of the schools safe guarding policy...they didn't send me a copy. All this is assuming the policies are available. I contacted the independent schools inspectorate who informed that the school "must" have these documents available.....

Did the school know that you and your ex wife had separated/divorced? Yes the school did know about the separation.

Were there any arrangements in place regarding fee payments, if the school were aware of your separation? No.

As others mentioned in the other thread, I suspect the e-mail correspondence you had with the Head will be significant. I assume when he called you, he informed you that your ex had said your son was being removed from the school? Yes that's correct.

My former wife sent the following email to the school on 22 April 2017


Dear Sir or Madam


I understand that you need notice of my son XXXX YYYY leaving the school at the end of the academic year but due to my circumstances, I would hope you would also consider the possibility of XXXX returning in the academic year.

At the moment I am in a bit of a hiatus awaiting a financial settlement due to marital issue.

I would also ask you consider XXXX for a scholarship which would relieve my current financial situation which is in part my consideration of his moving schools.

XXXX has benefited socially and academically from the excellent input and support of your school

Yours sincerely

Mrs FJ

The head master responded on 27 April 2017

Thank you for your email of 22 April.


I am sorry it is necessary for you to give notice, but I understand your reasons for having to do so.
XXXX is a valued member of the school community, and we would be very sorry to see him go, but I am afraid he would not be a candidate for any scholarships.

Were you to withdraw your notice or to return at a later point we would be delighted for XXXX to continue, but I can confirm that you have done everything necessary within the terms of the contract to mean that XXXX would leave at the end of this term without you having to write further.

I hope very much that things will be resolved in a way that allows XXXX to remain at school.

With all good wishes,


Yours sincerely

The Headmaster


Then on the 14th June my former wife wrote to the headmaster again following a meeting were she made it quite clear that I was unemployed, technically homeless and pretty much in a meltdown:

"Dear Mr

I would like to thank you for meeting with me a few weeks ago.

Following a mediation meeting with my ex husband, I would like to make it clear that I will not put my name to any contract with the school especially considering that my ex husband is now unemployed.


My ex husbands plans for XXXX seem to only be for him to say until he is settled in his new house and not for the whole of his schooling. XXXX needs yo (sic) in a new school as he enters year 7.


Furthermore I am aware that XXXX is not happy staying at the college as he has had difficulties with some of the other children."

Mrs FJ



Why did you feel he should stay there or was this all down to what the head said about the bullying situation and how it was allegedly being dealt with?

The school led me to believe that the bullying and school issues were a result of the marital breakdown, and as the school was our sons stability (or so I thought) I considered it best to keep him in the school. By the end of July 2017, I had been offered a job & things were improving. On 1st August we went to court regarding access & mediation. This meant our son was moved to another school. I sent the following email to the school on 2nd August 2017:

I am sad to have to inform you that our son, XXXX will not be

returning to the school in September.



Mrs.FJ and I want to thank you and your team for all your hard work

and kindness with XXXX over the last few years and in particular the

last few months which have seen XXXX struggling the most. The care and

attention offered at this very difficult time has been outstanding. This

is reflected by the continuous standard of marks our son XXXX has

achieved in his period grades.



Yours sincerely

Soon after this email I began to learn about the bullying by our sons fellow pupils, as well as a threat he received from a parent, on school premises. The school denies any of this ever happened. I also have a witness statement around other bullying.

he school has refused to communicate regarding the bullying issues and is simply interested in collecting what it believes is monies owed.



Were you not communicating with your ex by this stage? Communications with my ex only really resumed post the court hearing on 1st August. I didn't fully comprehend the bullying issues before hand, and the correspondence I had been receiving was either misleading or incomplete. (I was asking for school attendance records amongst other things and the school could not supply them...I have a whole raft of emails about this).


Is your ex included in the claim? No, see above.

As you are jointly and severally responsible for the fees you should both be Defendants in this case? See the attached T&C contract...s 2 and s 9 are what I believe to be important.

Have you reached a financial settlement in your divorce and were the school fees factored into this, assuming you were aware of the issue at the time? No and no.

Sorry more questions than answers at this point.

Thanks...apologies for not setting this out properly but I think I have answered...

T&C Contract attached.