Lowell Portfolio Cohen Cramer V Me

[BrightonHove2016]

Hi there,

I hope someone can help me.

I started receiving correspondence from Lowell and Cohen Cramer some time ago regarding an alleged debt with Orange.

I have no knowledge of any amount owing to Orange, so I sent them a letter asking for evidence proving my liability for the debt. They sent me some figures on an a4 piece of paper which doesn’t have any information relating to any specific account. I asked them to send me a copy of the agreement for the account which they haven’t sent.

I understand that mobile phone accounts aren’t governed by the consumer credit act, so I need to know what documents they need to be in possession of in order to prove my liability for this debt?

i am going to acknowledge the claim form online and I would appreciate some advice on writing a defence.

cheers

[MIKE770]

Check dates

First Steps

Acknowledge Claim

[BrightonHove2016]

Hiya,

Thanks for your reply,

ive read all those links. None of them tell me what documents these guys need to be in possession of.

Their particulars of claim to not refer to any documents.


Specifically I need to know;

1.) How can they prove my liability for the debt.

2.) What documents do they need for a mobile phone claim?

[BrightonHove2016]

Hi All,

The particulars of claim;

”The claim is for the sum of £xxx.xx due by the defendant under an Orange account with an account reference xxxxxxxx

The defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the the account agreement.

The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 23/12/2014, notice of which has been given to the defendant.

The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue of these proceedings in the sum of £xx.xx

The claimant claims the sum of £xxx.xx”


There is no mention of any documents other than the assignment which I certainly have not received.

where do I go from here?

[MIKE770]

assignment
Orange Account agreement all mentioned there?

[BrightonHove2016]

Sorry I thought they had to list them. Overstressed numpty over here, clearly.

[MIKE770]

await further help been asked for

[Amethyst]

The claim is for the sum of £xxx.xx due by the defendant under an Orange account with an account reference xxxxxxxx

The defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the the account agreement.

The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 23/12/2014, notice of which has been given to the defendant.

The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue of these proceedings in the sum of £xx.xx

The claimant claims the sum of £xxx.xx”

Yip, only really Terms, agreement and notice of assignment for your CPR letter, however I would include Default Notice in the request as well.

I have no knowledge of any amount owing to Orange, so I sent them a letter asking for evidence proving my liability for the debt. They sent me some figures on an a4 piece of paper which doesn’t have any information relating to any specific account. I asked them to send me a copy of the agreement for the account which they haven’t sent.

So you actually don't recognise the debt at all ? If that is the case it will be worth checking your credit file and seeing if anything shows related to this on there ( pre assignment ) - and possibly give EE ( or whoever Orange have morphed into now ) a call and see if they can trace anything - if not a Subject Access Request to Orange might help.

Did you have a letter before claim before you received this court claim? ( would have been about a month ago )

[BrightonHove2016]

Hi there,

I have received a response to the CPR letter, just with the one page document they are referring to as a statement of account, and a copy of a notice of assignment from 2015.

They have not sent a copy of the agreement, I presume because they are not in possession of it. What should be my next step?

Thank you!

[Amethyst]

So you actually don't recognise the debt at all ? If that is the case it will be worth checking your credit file and seeing if anything shows related to this on there ( pre assignment ) - and possibly give EE ( or whoever Orange have morphed into now ) a call and see if they can trace anything - if not a Subject Access Request to Orange might help.

Did you have a letter before claim before you received this court claim? ( would have been about a month ago )

Has the statement helped with recognising the debt - can you correspond any payments made with any in your bank statements from same period ?
Have you checked credit file ? Spoken with Orange ? Etc

The time between acknowledging the claim and entering your defence is your time to try find out more about the debt, and if you still don't recognise it you can put that into your defence alongside the efforts you have made to find out what it is.

[BrightonHove2016]

Hi there,

I have spoken with EE about a SAR on this account but they said this can take up to 40 days. I can find no record of anything on my credit file with either Experian or Equifax. I certainly have never had an account with Orange. I did with T-Mobile back in 2006 but that account was closed after the minimum contract.

Can you answer one question for me, very simply;

Can the claimant gain a CCJ against me without the agreement? I have asked for it twice and both times it has been omitted. That suggests to me that they are not I possession of it.

I want to put my defence together, the 30 days is up on the 28/04.

[Amethyst]

Okay T- Mobile is likely where this has come from them, but if that was back in 2006 and you only had it for the minimum contract period it is likely well since statute barred.

Can the claimant gain a CCJ against me without the agreement? I have asked for it twice and both times it has been omitted. That suggests to me that they are not I possession of it.

They can if you fail to defend the claim. As it is a mobile phone contract they don't need to comply with the Consumer Credit Act sec 77-79 request - however they will need to evidence the debt exists to the satisfaction of the court.

So I'd still send the SAR ( 40 days will be up before you got to any hearing date or likely any witness statements date so is worthwhile getting hold of anything they have )

You've asked for the agreement, default notice and assignment under CPR 31.14 and they haven't provided anything.
You have never had an account with Orange
You deny any debt is owed to Orange or to the Claimant and put them to strict proof.
If there were any debt, which is denied, it would be statute barred.

So this statement - does this have dates and amounts on it leading up to assignment in 2015 ?

[BrightonHove2016]

Hi Amethyst,

Thanks for your reply.

i asked for the agreement, notice of assignment and statement of account. I didn’t ask for a default notice as this wasn’t mentioned in their particulars of claim.

i was supplied with the notice of assignment and the one page statement of account.

How can they prove that the I am responsible for the debt without the contractual agreement?

80% of the amount claimed is due to early termination fees.

The statement shows transactional information up until September 2014.

[Amethyst]

The statement shows transactional information up until September 2014.

Can you correspond any payments made with any in your bank statements from same period ? ( or provide statements/transaction lists that show those transactions were not made )

[BrightonHove2016]

Can one of you Harvey Specter types have a look at my proposed defence below and tell me whether you think it would be effective in this case?

Thank you you so much for your time!

1. The Defendant contends that the Particulars of Claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

1. Paragraph 1 is accepted. I have, in the past, had a contractual relationship with Orange Limited, however I do not recollect the details nor am I aware of any outstanding balance that the claimant refers to and have therefore sought clarity from the claimant given that that they are the assignee of this alleged debt and have very little knowledge of what they are claiming and have not disclosed further details in response to my request under CPR 31.14.

1. Paragraph 2 is noted, again I do not recall any breach and I have requested the claimant send me the agreement mentioned which they have failed to do despite this being requested twice, once in response to the claimants letter before action and again in my CPR 31.14 request. Both requests were ignored by the claimant.

1. Paragraph 3 is denied. I do not recall having received a Notice of Assignment, as stated by the Claimant. They have sent an alleged copy dated 10th January 2015 from my cpr31.14 request. This is the first time I have seen this letter.

1. The claimant sent a word document as a “statement of account” in response to my CPR 31.14 request which is vague and does not include any traceable payment data and has address that I have not lived in for four years prior to the date on the statement of account. This has made it impossible to verify the information contained therein.

Therefore the Claimant is to provide strict proof to:




(a) show how the Defendant has entered into a Agreement/ Contract; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

(c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

1. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is required that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

1. As the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim, due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act.

1. Subject to the above, should the alleged amount claimed include an early termination charge(s) amounting to the total balance of the remaining contract, OFCOM guidance clearly states that any Early Termination Charge, that is made up of the entire balance of the remaining contract, is unlikely to be fair, as it fails to take into account the fact that the provider no longer has to provide and pay for their service.

1. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed, or any relief.