Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

[Angelai]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Gutted - I've just found a letter from Robinson Way, dated March last year, for this debt. They were offering settlement at £585 :-(

Actually, now I'm more confused - MKDP, Hoist, where do Robinson Way fit in?

I am working my way through the filing cabinet, to see if I have ANY info on the Lloyds account...

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Gutted - I've just found a letter from Robinson Way, dated March last year, for this debt. They were offering settlement at £585 :-(

Actually, now I'm more confused - MKDP, Hoist, where do Robinson Way fit in?

I am working my way through the filing cabinet, to see if I have ANY info on the Lloyds account...

If they were happy to settle for £585 months ago then they may be happy to settle for that sum this year, although I would expect them to add the court claim fee/costs on top since they’ve now paid those. That figure is a lot less than 50% which was your first speculative thought.

See what you can find in your filing cabinet about the debt.

You can also send a Subject Access Request to Lloyds to get the full history of the account so you can see when/if a Formal Demand was sent to you and whether the account was terminated properly before it was sold to MKDP (a debt purchaser). This forum has a SAR template letter you can use.

Robinson Way are a Debt Collection Agency working on behalf of Hoist the debt owner. They would have written to you before the account was transferred to Howard Cohen solicitors to issue legal proceedings.

Then they (Howard Cohen) should have sent you a Letter Before Claim with a reply form to complete and return - they shouldn’t issue any claim until 30 days are up giving you the opportunity to dispute the debt or seek debt advice from a charity such as the CAB. Did they do that?

COA stands for Cause of Action which is the ‘legal’ incident which can dictate when a debt becomes Statute Barred six years later (or 5 years in Scotland).

If you believe the debt could be Statute Barred then you would include that in your Defence (LB template example) and the Claimant has to prove you wrong. Your Lloyds file should help you establish the situation unless you made any payments to MKDP after it was assigned to them).

You can post your CPR 31.14 Request Letter on the forum and one of the members will help look at it for you before you send it. Remove anything which could identify you first!

You are free to make an offer at any stage if that seems the right thing for you, but doing some background research may help you to reach that decision.

Since you don’t own your own home you need not worry about a Charging Order on it so you can cross that off your list.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

husband and I got into serious financial difficulty 6 years ago, and now that we have reached the point of being able to eat and pay the rent it's time to face up to the debt we ignored, no? He received a claim form himself yesterday, for about £600... At this point, I can afford to pay half of the claim without getting into hardship. What I don't want is to commit to a monthly payment forever and ever, as our income is so variable.

. . . . I'm struggling to find the strength to fight, I've had a tough time lately. Yes, it would be easier to just accept it and arrange to pay, and I feel that I should. But, of course, that money could be useful elsewhere!

If you’ve got other debts it could help to look at the whole picture at the same time.

Maybe @Debt Camel can suggest some options to consider especially if some of these have been hanging over your head for six years.

Your husband is welcome to join the forum to get help with his court claim too.

Di

[Angelai]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

If you’ve got other debts it could help to look at the whole picture at the same time.
Di

So, I have looked 'properly' at my credit report - there are five accounts on there including the Lloyds bank one. They all have default dates between April and July 2012. If the claim form I got this week is only the first of five I know I won't cope. I've had years of mental health problems, and have already made myself ill the last few months for other reasons.

The one that's now worrying me the most is an old HP agreement - the default balance is £1166, but the balance in the boxes at the bottom is £7013!!! It also shows as 'payments up to date' - what is going on with that? That one, and the Lloyds Bank one that I started this thread about, both show 'Assigned to CIAS member', the others don't - does that make a difference to anything? Anyway, that's not the purpose of this thread.

I just don't know what to do now. I need to start with the one I've had a claim form about, yes. So, CPR request. I'll draft one and post it up.

Thank you Di

[Angelai]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

I have no idea what to ask for :-/

POC mention 'an overdraft facility under bank account no. XX' (I have realised the long number is the sort code and account number together) - no mention of agreement or contract.

Also mentioned 'debt was legally assigned by MKDP to the Claimant' - so do I ask for Notice of Assignment? Deed of Assignment?

Finally, 'sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account' - so I ask for a copy of the terms and condition of the bank account'?

What about Default Notice?

Or, just all applicable Notices and Deeds?? I'm trying so hard not panic.

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

I'm trying so hard not panic.

No need to panic, you’re doing fine (apologies for sounding like a midwife )

Maybe @warwick65 can help you with the CPR 31.14 Request.

Just because you’ve received one claim that doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll receive four more.

My suggestion was to take a view on the whole situation before you throw all your available resources at one (an offer to Hoist) so you could be underfunded to deal with everything else in your life.

If you file a Defence to this current claim that should buy you time to figure out the best way forward with the rest of your debts

Di

[Angelai]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Thank you Di, any advice (and breathing support!) is very welcome.

I have checked my clearscore file now, too, and found this:

Lloyds a/c shows missed payments December 2011, January 2012 and February 2012, followed by payments in March and April 2012 - I don't understand that at all. Also, in the Hoist section, there are no missing payments recorded at all. Lloyds shows a £0 balance, Hoist shows £1775. Is the fact that they show a different history useful in any way? It does suggest that my last 'payment' was over 6 years ago, but it's so confusing with it being an account/overdraft and not a credit agreement. Both are listed under 'closed accounts'.

I have not linked my old and new names with clearscore or experian - I decided the lesser of the two evils was NO credit history, rather than a really poor one (I have been proved wrong on that score many times!).

I guess I'm trying to gauge if the emotional cost of fighting is worth it?

[warwick65]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Hi
I know you need to send a Cpr31.14 request so I this is what I think I would send to the solicitors

Dear Sirs,Claim Number: XXXXXX
Request for documents mentioned in a statement of case under CPR 31.14

On xx/xx/xxxx I received a County Court claim from yourselves of which I have acknowledged receipt indicating my intention to defend in full.
To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on xx/xx/xxxx.
1)The overdraft agreement
2)The terms and conditions of the bank account No xxxxxxxx
3)The Notice and Deed of assignment between Lloyds and MKDP
4)The Notice and Deed of assignment between MKDP and HPH2
In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.
You should note that this claim has not yet been allocated to a specific track and the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect. Had your claim not been issued through CCBC the Claimant would have been obliged to attach copies of the documentation upon which it relies to the Particulars of Claim.

I, as Defendant, am entitled to see the documents on which the Claimant relies and which you must produce at trial. Disclosure at this stage will enable me to fully plead my case and further the Overriding Objective.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

I hope that helps, you send it to the solicitors by royal mail signed for

[Angelai]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Hi
I know you need to send a Cpr31.14 request so I this is what I think I would send to the solicitors

Thank you, that's just what I needed.

Ok. I crumbled and called them - it was diverted straight to Robinson Way. I referred them to the letter they sent me last year offering a 33% settlement, and asked if I could pay that, plus costs. After much waiting, and the call-handler needing to talk to 'the management', I was told 'NO', this late in proceedings, the best they could do is 80%. I will get that CPR in the post tomorrow! Oh, I didn't actually accept liability, I just said I don't need court hanging over me, can this be settled before that.

I hope I haven't done the wrong thing!

[warwick65]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

I know just how stressful it all can be

I think Diana is right when she says you need to fully explore all your options and the impact each one may have

As you seem to have some other debts maybe these need looking at as well

Sorry if i don't have too much time to answer your questions -I have a lot on and quite a lot to do -unless you want to write me an essay or two

[Kati]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

unless you want to write me an essay or two

essays are always good xx

[TheSpirit]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

essays are always good xx

Perhaps Kati has time on hand to do essays

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

I crumbled and called them - it was diverted straight to Robinson Way. I referred them to the letter they sent me last year offering a 33% settlement, and asked if I could pay that, plus costs. After much waiting, and the call-handler needing to talk to 'the management', I was told 'NO', this late in proceedings, the best they could do is 80%. I will get that CPR in the post tomorrow! Oh, I didn't actually accept liability, I just said I don't need court hanging over me, can this be settled before that.

I hope I haven't done the wrong thing!

I can’t say if you’ve done the wrong thing or not.

An offer made so soon after a Claim has been received may be seen by the Claimant as a sign of weakness because you think you may have no Defence to their claim.

I suggested that you should establish your legal position before you made any approach to the Claimant or their legal representatives.

My suggestion was to send a CPR 31.14 Request ( @warwick65 is helping you with that) and then file a Defence before you enter into negotiations either directly or through the court’s free Mediation option.

You say that you have discussed an offer over the phone which could be perceived as an admission of the claim (phone calls can be “Without Prejudice” if you make that clear at the start of the call) but hopefully the Claimant won’t use that call as an admission of the claim.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Are you thinking of making an offer of 50% in full and final settlement of the debt conditional on the claimant discontinuing the claim.

I think this is well worth trying.

nem

Only if the OP (Defendant) can convince the Claimant that they (Defendant) have rock solid legal arguments for their Defence so the Claimant should abandon (Discontinue) a "hopeless" claim.

At this stage in these legal proceedings that's an unknown.

My suggestion was to ask them (Claimant) to produce evidence/documents to prove their claim first.

If they (Claimant) can't produce the documents within the time-frame the OP (Defendant) dictates then maybe the Claimant is on the back foot when it comes to negotiating a settlement.

What other reason would that Claimant have to Discontinue?

Di

[Angelai]

Thank you for all of your advice so far.

I sent a CPR request 13/01/18, reply received 29/01/18 stating: "We acknowledge receipt of your CPR 31.14 request... the documents have been requested from our client's predecessor in title..."

I have not received ANYTHING, and today is my last day to file defence. I have no idea what I need to do next :-( How can I defend this without any paperwork?