Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

[Angelai]

*THIS WAS MEANT TO GO IN THE CLAIM FORM SECTION - SORRY*

Hello, and thank you all for this great forum.

I have received a claim form from CCBC, regarding an unpaid overdraft on an old Lloyds account. Is it too late to negotiate a reduced settlement? I have completed AOS online. Also, the claim is in my old name, is this likely to cause any problems (I added my current name on the AOS)?

I'm not trying to get out of paying this debt. I can pay about half of it now, but don't want it dragging on and on - is it worth offering that in the hopes that that would be the end of it? I am a full-time (mature!) student, with no income, but am happy to offer what I have now. I'm not sure what the court would order as I have no income? Would my partner's income be taken into account?

Many thanks.

[Kati]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Thread moved
[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] @ Diana M

[nemesis45]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

*THIS WAS MEANT TO GO IN THE CLAIM FORM SECTION - SORRY*

Hello, and thank you all for this great forum.

I have received a claim form from CCBC, regarding an unpaid overdraft on an old Lloyds account. Is it too late to negotiate a reduced settlement? I have completed AOS online. Also, the claim is in my old name, is this likely to cause any problems (I added my current name on the AOS)?

I'm not trying to get out of paying this debt. I can pay about half of it now, but don't want it dragging on and on - is it worth offering that in the hopes that that would be the end of it? I am a full-time (mature!) student, with no income, but am happy to offer what I have now. I'm not sure what the court would order as I have no income? Would my partner's income be taken into account?

Many thanks.

Hi, WELCOME!

When did you cease using the account?
Does it still appear on your credit reference files?
Do you know the default date?

Are you thinking of making an offer of 50% in full and final settlement of the debt conditional on the claimant discontinuing the claim.

I think this is well worth trying.
But yo must word the offer very carefully so as not to leave the way open to them accepting an offer and then selling off or continuing with the claim.
Pay nothing until you have their unequivocal written acceptance of the offer and your terms.

nem

[Angelai]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Hi, WELCOME!

When did you cease using the account?
Does it still appear on your credit reference files?
Do you know the default date?

Are you thinking of making an offer of 50% in full and final settlement of the debt conditional on the claimant discontinuing the claim.

I think this is well worth trying.
But yo must word the offer very carefully so as not to leave the way open to them accepting an offer and then selling off or continuing with the claim.
Pay nothing until you have their unequivocal written acceptance of the offer and your terms.

nem

Thanks for your reply.

So: I ceased using the account in 2011/2012, it does still appear in my credit file, the default date is May 2012. I am thinking of making a 50% offer, yes.

[nemesis45]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Thanks for your reply.

So: I ceased using the account in 2011/2012, it does still appear in my credit file, the default date is May 2012. I am thinking of making a 50% offer, yes.

Hi, It looks like they have started the claim now as the debt is nearing statute barred.

The offer I think is a good idea, but as said must be carefully setup and worded, if you need help with an offer please let me know [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] will find me.

nem

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

I have received a claim form from CCBC, regarding an unpaid overdraft on an old Lloyds account. Is it too late to negotiate a reduced settlement? I have completed AOS online.

. . . . is it worth offering that in the hopes that that would be the end of it?

Before you rush into making an offer may I ask you a few questions to establish the facts?

You say you have completed the AOS online. Did you tick the box which said you intend to dispute all of the claim or did you make a part admission (or even full admission)? I ask because it's important to establish where you are in these legal proceedings before suggesting your next step.

Who is the Claimant and who are their solicitors (if any have been instructed)? Is it Lloyds or has the debt been assigned to a debt purchaser?

How much is the claim in total? No one can say if 50% would be a reasonable offer without knowing how much the claim is for. Maybe 50% of £500 would be acceptable but 50% of £15k wouldn't.

An offer doesn't necessarily guarantee that would be the end of it. An offer has to be accepted. Depending on the amount claimed (and whether you own your own home) the Claimant may take the view that they want to fight until the end even if you don't want to. They may also be happy to take the money and run, but that's an unknown at this stage.

Also be aware that if you make an offer it might be seen as an admission of the debt which the Claimant could use against you to get a CCJ. Always head any offer Without Prejudice.

If they Discontinue before you file your Defence then they can reissue without any permission from the court. If you file a Defence you will have protected your legal position in that respect.

If you file a Defence and they decide to continue with the proceedings then you will be offered free telephone Mediation if the claim is for less than £10k. If you settle at Mediation you won't get a CCJ although the agreement you negotiate is legally binding.

Negotiation should always be from a position of strength which means discover what weak links may exist in their case first.

You say this was "an old Lloyds account". How old (i.e. when was the account opened)? Did it start out as a sole account or joint account?

Was there any PPI associated with the account?

If the account was sold by Lloyds then did you receive a Notice of Assignment at the time?

Were you sent a Formal Demand calling in the overdraft?

Does the amount indicate whether this was an arranged or unarranged overdraft?

Sorry for all the questions (I may have more depending on your answers ) but it's wise to get to the bottom of your chances of success before you make an offer.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Thread moved
@Amethyst @nemesis45 @ Diana M

Your tag for me didn't work

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Hi, It looks like they have started the claim now as the debt is nearing statute barred.

The offer I think is a good idea, but as said must be carefully setup and worded, if you need help with an offer please let me know @nemesis45 will find me.

nem

An offer may/may not be “a good idea” or appropriate at this stage (legally speaking) but the way I see it is that the OP has not posted sufficient information to be able to advise them.

For example what makes you think (with evidence to back up your assumption) that the debt is nearing Statute Barred ?

It’s not unknown for a creditor to continue to report information to a CRA (correct or otherwise) which is not necessarily proof (in legal terms).

From what I’ve read this on this thread this an overdraft which may/may not have been authorised/unauthorised. These facts matter.

Legal proceedings are in progress so the OP needs to tread carefully.

Di

[Angelai]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Thank you so much for your attention in this!

Right, I'll tell you as much as I know:

It was an arranged/authorised overdraft, but the claim form doesn't state either way;

The claimant is Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 LTD, address for documents and payments is Howard Cohen and Co;

When I completed the AOS I ticked that I was intending to defend the entire claim;

Amount claimed is £1775, plus £185 fees and costs;

The account may have been opened around 2008, I can't be sure. Obviously, as it's an overdraft and not a loan, the default date is pretty much whenever they choose - but on my credit file it says May 2012. I have been burying my head in the sand for years - as in not opening any mail that comes in my old name (I changed my first name by deed poll, and surname by marriage, in December 2011). That makes me think - as I hadn't given Lloyds my new name, that suggests I had stopped using the account by then...

I have no idea if any notices were sent to me. The claim form states that the debt was legally assigned by MKDP LP (Ex Lloyds Banking Group) to the claimant, but doesn't give a date. It says that the defendant failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.

I opened an account with the money shop when I could no longer use the Lloyds account - I should be able to find out when that was, in my old name so pre-Dec 2011, but I don't think it will help? As I said, my credit file dates the default as May 2012.

Thanks again! I wish I could afford to just pay it all :-(

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

If you’ve filed your AOS stating you intend to defend all of the claim you have 33 days from the claim Issue Date to file your Defence with the help of this forum which has a template example as a starting point for you to adapt to suit your particular situation.

You can send Howard Cohen a CPR 31.14 Request asking them to produce documents with the help of this forum.

Since the account was assigned to. MKDP before Hoist (which is unlicensed) there may be assignment issues for the Claimant.

Once you’ve filed a Defence which could ‘ruffle feathers’ you can decide how you want to proceed depending on their reaction.

The court will serve your Defence on Hoist/Howard Cohen who will be given 28 days to inform them if they wish to continue or the claim is automatically stayed (a pause button).

If they decide to press ahead then you’ll be sent a form to complete (Directions Questionnaire) where you’ll be given the opportunity to say ‘Yes’ to free telephone Mediation if you want to settle. This forum will help you to complete the DQ.

All this takes time (weeks/months) during which you can always make an offer to settle based on what information and documents they can/can’t produce.

What is the claim Issue Date on the form (top right)?

It’s only natural to feel the immediate need to pay when you receive a claim because understandably you won’t know how to manage the situation, but this forum can guide you through the process.

The Claimant has to prove their claim so see if they can do that.

Do you rent or own your own home, and is your only income a Student Loan (excluding your partner’s financial situation) ? You should only make an offer that you can afford and one that wouldn’t place you in hardship.

Di

[Angelai]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Thank you, Di.

I will look at the CPR 31.14 Request (I must confess, I don't know what that is - yet!). On another note, I did send a CCA request regarding another debt last year - I was sent a copy of an agreement with 'my' signature on, but I know 100% that it wasn't my signature, it was forged. I didn't communicate any further, and it seems to have disappeared from my credit file. So, I am a little wary of the possibility of some dirty tricks being employed!

I'm not sure what my 'defence' would be?

Why may there be assignment issues for the claimant?

Does a stay mean it could pop up again at some time in the future?

The claim issue date is 5 January.

Our home is rented, and at the moment, my only income is student finance, yes. I am in my second year of three, next year I won't be eligible for a tuition fee loan (previous study rules) and was intending to use my maintenance loan to pay fees (as I did last year). So, I actually won't have any 'spare' income next year, so I don't want this biting me next year. I have a company, which is not making any money at present (another, long story). It is actually costing money at the moment, but I am hanging on to it for when I finish university. My husband is self-employed, I don't know if his income will be relevant at any point?

My husband and I got into serious financial difficulty 6 years ago, and now that we have reached the point of being able to eat and pay the rent it's time to face up to the debt we ignored, no? He received a claim form himself yesterday, for about £600... At this point, I can afford to pay half of the claim without getting into hardship. What I don't want is to commit to a monthly payment forever and ever, as our income is so variable. I guess half now, and the rest monthly would be most likely to be accepted, though? I am seriously kicking myself - I remember opening a letter last year offering me a settlement at about 40%, but I think this was a different debt.

I'm struggling to find the strength to fight, I've had a tough time lately. Yes, it would be easier to just accept it and arrange to pay, and I feel that I should. But, of course, that money could be useful elsewhere!

[Angelai]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Regarding the CPR 31.14 request:

Under 'Particulars of Claim' it says:

This Claim is for the sum of £1775.30 in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under bank account number XXXXXXXXXXXXXX (that's rather a long account number??). The debt was legally assigned by MKDP LLP (Ex Lloyds Banking Group) to the Claimant and notice has been served. The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.

So, what can I actually ask for with the CPR request? There is no mention of contracts or default notices or anything else, other than 'notice has been served'.

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

The claim form states that the debt was legally assigned by MKDP LP (Ex Lloyds Banking Group) to the claimant, but doesn't give a date. It says that the defendant failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.(

If the Particulars of Claim specifically mention “the terms and conditions of the bank account” then you can ask Howard Cohen to produce those terms and conditions in your CPR 31.14 Request.

How can the court decide if you’ve breached those Ts & Cs if they’re not produced as evidence. They have to prove their claim.

The Statute Barred date issue can be arguable. The bank should serve the customer with a Formal Demand with an ‘end date’. That date can be viewed as the COA. If the bank don’t get round to registering the default on the CRA files until months later then that may not impact on the COA. It’s arguable.

According to the POC posted by you the account was “legally assigned” to Hoist by MKDP so they need to evidence that assignment. The POC also state that the debt was ex-Lloyd’s Banking Group so they need to prove that assignment too (from Lloyds to MKDP).

The Claimant Hoist is also unlicensed.

Di

[Angelai]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

If the Particulars of Claim specifically mention “the terms and conditions of the bank account” then you can ask Howard Cohen to produce those terms and conditions in your CPR 31.14 Request.Di

This makes sense, thank you

The Statute Barred date issue can be arguable. The bank should serve the customer with a Formal Demand with an ‘end date’. That date can be viewed as the COA. If the bank don’t get round to registering the default on the CRA files until months later then that may not impact on the COA. It’s arguable.Di

Sorry, but... what is the COA?

According to the POC posted by you the account was “legally assigned” to Hoist by MKDP so they need to evidence that assignment. The POC also state that the debt was ex-Lloyd’s Banking Group so they need to prove that assignment too (from Lloyds to MKDP).Di

The particulars of claim don't say anything about the debt being legally assigned to Hoist by MKDP?

The Claimant Hoist is also unlicensed.Di

I'm not sure what this means for me?




Sorry for my lack of knowledge, and thanks again!

[Diana M]

Re: Claim form received - too late to negotiate amount?

Our posts have crossed (I had to take an office call in the middle of posting).

Why not gather all the facts so you know the strengths and weaknesses of your Defence and their Claim before you finally make up your mind on how much to offer and how (lump sum or instalments) or whether you could tie them up in knots and invite them to Discontinue their claim (and then make an offer).

Litigation is about tactics as well as law.

Do you not recognise the account account number stated in the POC as the Lloyds current account which you held (you seem not to in your post) ?

They’ve specifically mentioned that account number so ask them for details of when that account was opened and what was the overdraft facility limit (they’ve mentioned that too) although those could be asked as Part 18 Questions.

Di