Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

[Milkman007]

On the 14th October 2017 the Family car entered Royal William Yard and parked, we have previously parked at this yard in the past and the method of paying was to pay on exit after entering the registration number into the machine, your photo would appear and the charge would be displayed, you pay and exit.

Apparently from 1st December 2016 - they changed the procedure and you now need to pay on entry.

The driver never saw any signs to this effect and was caught out and received a penalty charge notice.

As the owner of the vehicle (not the driver) I appealed using one of the Martin Lewis templates and received the reject letter as expected.

The appeal was based on the fact that the driver did go to pay before returning to the car, entered the registration number into the pay machine but no charge came up, tried this a couple of times and then looked at the car and saw there was a ticket on it.

They had every intention of paying but were caught out by the change in procedures, there were no signs advising of this change.

One of the family later said that when they parked there last time in the same car, they spotted some signs advising about the changes and paid before hand.

So the car that entered the yard had been seen to comply with change to parking procedures but did not on the most recent occasion as the driver was not aware the process had changed.

You will see from the reply we received, that they reference that the vehicle in question entered Royal William Yard car park and paid for a ticket.

I think they have made an error here and meant to say 'previously, so you were aware of the changes or something like that.'

I'm looking for opinions on this statement, have they shot themselves in the foot?

Thanks.

[ostell]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

Did you respond to the Windscreen ticket or has a Notice to Keeper been received? If there has been no NTK then keep them in conversation until 56 days have elapsed, 9th December, (you could argue that they are stating that a payment was made so why are they claiming more). After that time they cannot issue POFA compliant Notice to Keeper and can only claim from the driver, who they do not know unless you told them. Have you, simple yes or no. so that

The fact that another driver paid has nothing to do with the current situation. There a multiple drivers and each would have created a completely separate contract to park

I believe that the area may be subject to byelaws. I've been searching but can't find the maps that define the landward side of things. If byelaws are in existence then there will be no keeper liability as it is not relevant land for POFA.

[Milkman007]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

Hi, we responded to the ticket issued on the windscreen of the car, we have not advised any driver names:

Initial letter sent as below:

SIP Parking Limited
Peter House
Oxford Street
Manchester
M1 5AN

You issued a parking ticket on the 15^th October 2017 but I believe it was unfairly issued.

I decline your invitation to name the driver, which is not required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reason:


· There was insufficient signage / Mitigating circumstances

My family have used this car park many times when visiting Royal William Yard.

On previous visits you were required to pay on exit by entering your vehicle registration number at the ticket machine when ready to leave, at which time it came up with a photo of the car and the time of entry. You would then pay the appropriate fee and leave.

This time on returning to the car, the driver went directly to the machine and entered the registration number as before but this time no fee was being demanded. It was only when returning to the car that the ticket was found on the car. You should be able to confirm the attempt to pay as a vehicle registration number was entered into the ticket machine.

The car park in question had no clear signage to explain the changes to conditions to parking at Royal William Yard, something we later discovered when researching this issue, so under the circumstances I believe your charges are unfair and I will not be paying them. The driver had every intention of paying the charges and would be willing to pay the 2 hours parking without question.

This change of practice without clear communication to the public is underhand.


If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will appeal to the appropriate bodies and I expect you to provide full details of the appeals procedure.

[ostell]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

That's good, though you do not want to be appealing to the IAS as they are proud of the fact that they reject 80% of appeals.

As I suggested carry on a conversation for the 56 days and if there is no NTK by then tell them to get lost. If there is a NTK then check with the DVLA that they have applied for your details. They must get your information from the DVLA to be able to hold you liable.

[Milkman007]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

Thank you, some good advise.

Do you know if the have any trigger dates when they start next steps?

[ostell]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

It all depends on which side of the bed they got out of in the morning. Just keep up a conversation with them but don't rush to answer their letters.

[Milkman007]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

It all depends on which side of the bed they got out of in the morning. Just keep up a conversation with them but don't rush to answer their letters.

OK, thanks again.

[Milkman007]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

Received NTK, any other suggestions?

[ostell]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

Have they got your details from the DVLA? Look around for the email address. If they don't contact the DVLA then they can't chase the keeper.

Does the NTK comply with paragraph 8 of POFA ?

[Milkman007]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

I think so yes!

[ostell]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

So you've sent an email to the DVLA and got a response? That was quick!

Post up the NTK so that other people can see it. Redact identifying details

[Milkman007]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

No, I have not sent an email to DVLA, should I do that?

[Milkman007]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

NTK Attached.

Thanks.

[ostell]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

That NTK looks good, unfortunately. Check with the windscreen ticket to see if the details given are identical to those on the NTK.

You gave them the keeper's name and address in the appeal. They may have tried to save money by not going to the DVLA for the keeper details, saving £2.50. If they did not contact the DVLA then the requirements of POFA have not been met and the keeper cannot be held liable. Hunt around the forum for the email address of the DVLA and a suitable format for the request. You ask if anyone has requested your details between certain dates.

[Milkman007]

Re: Royal William Yard - SIP Car Parking Fine

Ok, have sent an email, will have to wait and see.