Claim received for CC account opened in 2000 - Help please?

**echat11** · 6th October 2021, 16:36:PM

You clearly have a lot of mitigating circumstances, your health, work etc.

1. I should file an acknowledge of service online (stating that I am to defend the claim) within 14 + 5 = 19 days from the form issue date?

That is correct, but just do it straight away.

2. File a defence online within 28 (is it also + 5?) days from the form issue date?

That is correct, but you might have to file it manually because MCOL only allows so many characters for your defence. It is a good idea to send the other party a copy at the same time as the court. Make sure you get Proof of Postage for both.

3. They call for the amount in balance + 8% p.a. interest from when they bought the debt to the date before the Claim was issued + 1.00 (does not state if % or £) per day to the day of judgement. Is this correct?!

The 8% is correct.

4. They mention a Default notice being served (I did not receive one, though it is possible that it was issued when I was in hospital for Chemo and I never saw it) and that a Default was recorded in 2020, sortly before they bought the account. I believe that a Default stands from when a payment is missed and the notice is issued, in which case it should be starting from 2018 or thereabouts, as that was when I was 'focused' elsewhere. Is there a way to get them to prove when the correct Default date is from? Does it make any difference in the greater scheme of things?

When you make a 31.14 Request that should show what and when they did stuff.

5. If the Claimant is a Luxembourg entity, how does that work with data protection and my personal data being transferred accross?

Send a 31.14 Request to Kearns they have 14 days to provide you with all the details that they are relying to make the claim. Make sure you get proof of postage.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-of-documents/

6. Finally, as this dates to so many years back (account opened in 2000), should I be asking for an original / signed agreement copy?

Send Kearns a CCA request, they have 14 days to provide you with a copy of the original agreement with any associated documents. Make sure you get Proof of Postage.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...etter-example/

See what they send back, in the meantime work on your defence.

**Celestine** · 7th October 2021, 09:15:AM

Who was the original card provider?
A credit card from 2000 is right in the middle of the 'wild west' period of reckless lending, therefore your CCA request is very important. Back then around 75% of all agreements were flawed/lost etc so fingers crossed.

**h197** · 8th October 2021, 12:26:PM

Hello and thank you ever so much for the replies.

I have now coompleted the AoS stating I will be defending the whole claim (should I have also ticked the jurisdiction option?). I am also completing the 31.14 Request and CCA Request letters and will post out as soon as possible, probably tomorrow morning.

My original agreement was with a different bank than the one claiming and having sold on the balance. I believe that was due to the amalgamation of different bodies in the last few years, though I am struggling to recall the new bank ever contacting me. Saying that, as I have already explained the last few years of my personal life have been 'intreresting' with divorce, leading onto stress and depression, leading onto cancer to content with and I will admit I am really struggling to recall periods of them. Apparently that is how the brain works when it does not wish to go back though, so I am hoping that whatever they send me back might kick start it again!

All that aside, if (as I expect they might) not send me a copy of the original agreement, or even do not reply at all, what do I do next? How do I pull together a defence to log before the deadline?

Many thanks again

**Celestine** · 8th October 2021, 16:39:PM

In your case, they have to send you a copy of the original, only accounts opened after 2007 can be satisfied via a reconstituted 'example' version of the agreement.
You can use our defence template and once you send of that CCA request (super urgent) you can start compiling your defence based on breach of s.78 CCA 1974.

**h197** · 19th October 2021, 13:15:PM

Hello again

Having sent off two letters (31.14 Request and s78 CCA Request) to the solicitors' address as per the Claim Form stated correspondence address, I have today received a reply. It has as follows:

" Dear xxx
Re: xxx Claim details xxx

We write further to correspondence dated the 09/10/2021 and received on the 13/10/2021.

In order to provide the documents disclosed in the Particulars of Claim and respond to your S78 request, we require time to acquire and compile papers from our Client and forward them to you. [1]

We note that on the letter requesting a S78 response you have suggested that there was a £1.00 postal order attached to the letter to satisfy the statutory fee required. We wish to inform you that no £1.00 postal order has been received from you. [2]

We confirm that a hold has been placed on the account and that no default judgement shall be requested within 14 days of the date the disclosed documents are provided. [3]

We do not consider it appropriate to make an application seeking time to provide documents, though if you require such please confirm and we shall do so (though an order may be sought for costs for that). [4]

If you wish to discuss... blah

xxx signed for the solicitors xxx "

So am I correct to firstly assume that this is NOT progressing through the Court and is (for the moment at least) stopped? Does this mean I still need to file my defence, or can I file something in the lines of "I have not been provided with the statutory data called for under Court CPR procedures and so would be unfair to lodge a defence as it would be based on incomplete data, which should have been readily available had the Claimant completed his/her due diligence prior to launching this Claim"..?

Moreover, your help on the following (marked above as relevant) questions would be very helpful.

[1] - They are asking for more time. Should they not be stating how much time they need? I mean what if it took them months for instance?!

[2] - They claim that the postal order was not enclosed. I am assuming that is so that the 12 working days' deadline to provide the data does not apply?! To this I am tempted to reply with something like the following:
"Two letters were sent to yourselves. A CPR 31.14 request and a S78 CCA request. As the former also called for the credit agreement for it was mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, both letters had a £1.00 postal order separately enclosed. The relevant Post Office Voucher IDs are xxx & xxx. Both orders were purchased on Monday morning in my local Post Office and were sealed in the presence of the post mistress (who stated was surprised that I needed 2x £1.00 orders to go in separate letters). I suggest you have misplaced them, or lost them, neither of which is my fault and still expect you to supply a copy of my agreement (which should in anyway be readily available to yourselves, assuming due diligence was done prior to launching this Claim) within 12 working days as is your legal obligation."

[3] - Does this mean that I do not have to file a defence either, until 14 days after the documents are provided? Or do I still have to submit a defence now and before the current 28 (or is it 28+5) day deadline?
BTW, as the Particulars of Claim mention the following, the CPR31.14 request called for (i) the Agreement, (ii) Default Notice, (iii) Agreement of assignment to Claimant and (iv) Notice of Assignment as 'served' to myself. I am assuming (iii) may not appear and moreover I have noticed that while they have responded to the s78 request, I have received no response regarding the CPR31.14 request?!! Any thoughts please?

[4] I do not recall asking them to apply for time through Court. And they have not advised how much time it would take either. Also, I am assuming that they should have all the relevant documents at hand, to have reviewed them before a Claim was lodged. Am I wrong in this assumption, is it too simplistic a view? Moreover, if they are delaying why should I have to pay costs due to their delay?!

Many thanks as always.
h197

**echat11** · 19th October 2021, 15:36:PM

Celestine Can you please take a look and advise.

**Celestine** · 22nd October 2021, 08:53:AM

Replying from phone, from a moving bus! I will reply more fully later.
IGNORE their statements regarding ‘on hold’ etc - it is NOT. The court timescales continue regardless of everything so, your defence must be filed on time.
Yes a letter disputing the lost POs would be wise, but not essential to making the CCA request valid. Can you imagine the reaction of a Judge down the line if they’d refused to comply for the sake of £1!?! I’m convinced debt companies do this to mess with our confidence of the rules.

**h197** · 29th October 2021, 02:42:AM

Originally posted by Celestine View Post

Replying from phone, from a moving bus! I will reply more fully later.
IGNORE their statements regarding ‘on hold’ etc - it is NOT. The court timescales continue regardless of everything so, your defence must be filed on time.
Yes a letter disputing the lost POs would be wise, but not essential to making the CCA request valid. Can you imagine the reaction of a Judge down the line if they’d refused to comply for the sake of £1!?! I’m convinced debt companies do this to mess with our confidence of the rules.

Dear Celestine

I have been waiting for a more detailed reply, though ackowledging that you are probably far too busy with multiple requests for assistance and not wanting to miss the deadline for filing, I have now filed a defence using your template. I will also be sending a letter to the solicitors enclosing a copy of it, as well as disputing the 'lost' POs, which by the way I have also noted in the defence along with their suggestion that they were never received.

Shall I assume that this will now be frozen/struck out?! What should I be preparing for next, if anything at all?

Thanking you as always for your support and I will come back once I receive any reply.
h197

**echat11** · 29th October 2021, 07:28:AM

It's best not to 'assume that this will now be frozen/struck out?!', there isn't a 'concrete process' that these things follow. But just keep on top of things which is all you can do.

**Celestine** · 29th October 2021, 09:49:AM

Sincere apologies H197 - half term has been very challenging. You have done absolutely the right thing and filed your defence on time.

Regarding your earlier points:

1] - They are asking for more time. Should they not be stating how much time they need? I mean what if it took them months for instance?! This happens very often. You have defended based on CCA non compliance and they cannot further their claim without those documents. If they cannot find them the claim will become 'stayed'. You will hear from the court in around 6 weeks if this happens. This is because they have to respond to your defence procedurally, if they do not (because of the outstanding docs) the court will suspend the matter indefinitely. To 'lift the stay', they or you will have to apply to court to progress/terminate the claim. This is more Akin to 'Frozen' than 'Struck Out' which means the claim no longer exists, whereas a stayed claim could come back to life at any point.

[2] - They claim that the postal order was not enclosed. I am assuming that is so that the 12 working days' deadline to provide the data does not apply?! To this I am tempted to reply with something like the following:
"Two letters were sent to yourselves. A CPR 31.14 request and a S78 CCA request. As the former also called for the credit agreement for it was mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, both letters had a £1.00 postal order separately enclosed. The relevant Post Office Voucher IDs are xxx & xxx. Both orders were purchased on Monday morning in my local Post Office and were sealed in the presence of the post mistress (who stated was surprised that I needed 2x £1.00 orders to go in separate letters). I suggest you have misplaced them, or lost them, neither of which is my fault and still expect you to supply a copy of my agreement (which should in anyway be readily available to yourselves, assuming due diligence was done prior to launching this Claim) within 12 working days as is your legal obligation." Yes, it would be wise to send them something refuting their statement about the 'missing £1', perhaps invite them to confirm in writing whether they require you to supply the £1 again or whether they will process your request? This letter can be used in witness evidence further down the line if necessary.

[3] - Does this mean that I do not have to file a defence either, until 14 days after the documents are provided? Or do I still have to submit a defence now and before the current 28 (or is it 28+5) day deadline? Yup, defence filed within normal timescales, otherwise it would trigger a default judgment. They say they won't ask for one until 14 days after they supply the documents. That is a disgraceful attempt to place you in a Damacles sword position of being in default and they just have to press a button, rather than correctly pursue the claim.
BTW, as the Particulars of Claim mention the following, the CPR31.14 request called for (i) the Agreement, (ii) Default Notice, (iii) Agreement of assignment to Claimant and (iv) Notice of Assignment as 'served' to myself. I am assuming (iii) may not appear and moreover I have noticed that while they have responded to the s78 request, I have received no response regarding the CPR31.14 request?!! Any thoughts please? This is also normal conduct, you will most likely get all the requested docs together once/if they find them.

[4] I do not recall asking them to apply for time through Court. And they have not advised how much time it would take either. Also, I am assuming that they should have all the relevant documents at hand, to have reviewed them before a Claim was lodged. Am I wrong in this assumption, is it too simplistic a view? Moreover, if they are delaying why should I have to pay costs due to their delay?! They are referring to a 15.5 defence extension I think, nothing to worry about.

**h197** · 22nd October 2024, 08:17:AM

Hello Celestine

It has been a long while and so I hope all i well your end...

I am writing as this has now progressed, they have called for a lift on the stay which was accepted (I was unaware...) and I am desperately trying to pull together a defence to submit within the next few hours, for a court date in the next couple of months...

In short, they have submitted a bundle including amongst othr paper a copy of an agreement, a letter of assignement, etc, etc... In their papers they state that CPR31.14 does not apply to claims under the small claims track. Is this the case and is it important to note?

They state that because no correspondence was returned to them marked as 'addressee gone away', it is likely that I received and was aware of the Notice of Assignment and their efforts to contact, etc... This is not true, as I left the property they sent documents to (according to their records) and I was fighting with a potentially life-ending illness during this period, not even being able to follow/ reply to any letters even if they had been delivered. And of course any details as to how much the debt was purchased for is nowhere visible...

Assuming I can confirm that:
1. I did not receive a Default Notice (sent to the old address) and therefore a chance to resolve this amicably
2. I did not receive Notice of Assignment (sent to the old address) so was unaware of this new company now trying to contact me
3. I was fighting with a serious (assumed terminal at the time) illness at the time and sufferring from the effects of its 'medication'
4. They were indeed slow at responding to the CPR requests (if there are statements missing and only the latest ones are included, is this a reason to put any emphasis on?)

Can the above make for a "suitable" Defence?

If the original alleged debt is indeed acknowldged, can there (at least) be no interest added? Interst already added has taken the debt to about +50%!

Any comments and/or advice will be greatly appreciated.

h197

**JK2054** · 24th October 2024, 11:03:AM

Hi,

I'll try to help with what I can in the interim.

You say a defence within the next few hours for a court date in the next couple of months, this makes no sense. You have to file the defence, then go through allocation, and directions then get a hearing date. I don't understand how you are saying the court date is in the next couple of months, if you haven't even filed a defence.

They are correct that CPR 31.14 doesn't apply to small claims, but if you haven't submitted a defence yet then CPR 31.14 still applies.

To answer your questions

1) That's up to the creditors
2) That does't meaning anything
3) That doesn't mean anything in relation to whether you owe the money or not
4) They can be slow if they like, and frankly it will make minimal difference so long as they end up replying.

None of the above are a defence in themselves, but they can form part of one, you will need to dispute the agreement itself (i.e was it a recon agreement they filed?).

Creditors are entitled to interest so no you can't stop that, although you may be able to get away with asking the judge at a hearing to limit interest

Claim received for CC account opened in 2000 - Help please?