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CH boiler installation, "reasonable time" for completion of contract, strike out?

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  • CH boiler installation, "reasonable time" for completion of contract, strike out?

    Details of my case /legal problem:


    I had a central heating boiler installed in mid-February last year, 2019. I was to pay £3,600+ for the boiler, its installation, and its servicing for 12 years. I paid a deposit of £750 before installation.

    It is a smart boiler, and when it was installed, the device that connects it to the Internet could not be fully used because the password supplied was unclear.

    A few days after it was installed, the radiator temperature fell to a level that did not heat the rooms. I reported this to the installer, but they did not send anyone. I found out myself that I could remedy the problem by completely disconnecting the Internet connection device.

    A week or two later, I received a letter from the installation company (FTSE250 listed) requesting the outstanding balance of £2,800+. Since the boiler was working well and I could control it with the thermostat, I paid them £1,250, making my total payment to them £2,000.

    In March, they sent the area supervisor to try to resolve the radiator temperature problem with the Internet device connected. He did not replace the Internet device with the unclear password and could not resolve the radiator temperature problem. He asked me to write to the boiler manufacturer about it. I did, copying them in, but got no reply.

    Following that, the only communications I had from them were telephone calls asking for the "outstanding" £1,600+.

    On 2 July, I received an email from their customer services saying that I had raised a complaint. I wrote back saying that I had not made a complaint and essentially saying I was satisfied with status quo (just £2,000 paid but with the Internet connection problem) and leaving it open for them to suggest any other arrangement. (I already felt that they had taken beyond a "reasonable time" to fulfil their part of the original contract.)

    On 9 July, an engineer called with an Internet connection device with a clear password. However, after the engineer had left, it became clear that this did not solve the radiator temperature problem.

    I received a final demand from them dated 16 July for £2,800+, i.e. as if I had not made the £1,250 payment. I phoned them, reminded them of the payment already made and telling them that the Internet connection / radiator problem had still not been resolved. I also emailed them the next day. I received a telephone call from them telling me absolute rubbish: 40°C was hot enough, the radiators would explode at 80°C etc.

    I put the case on Resolver (resolver.co.uk) on 28 July.

    I got a further final demand from them, still for £2,800+, dated 29 July.

    On 2 August, someone telephoned me from the company and together and also in communication with the boiler manufacturer resolved the radiator temperature problem. It might be said that lack of installation information from the manufacturer was the root cause of the problem.

    I waited for a response through Resolver updating things there as necessary. Eventually, as soon as the site allowed, I escalated the case to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

    Late October, I received a solicitor's letter for £2,800+. I emailed them saying £1,750 of it had already been paid. They emailed me back saying that according to their client the £2,800+ was correct. I emailed the solicitor's complaints department pointing out that the demand amounted to harassment on their part. (I had already stated on Resolver that I thought the company's demands were harassment). The solicitors re-contacted their client, the installation company, and it was agreed the £1,250 had been paid. I then emailed the solicitors, essentially saying that if they would provide a new reasonable figure, I would consider it with the utmost priority. I heard nothing back.

    Yesterday, 14 January 2020, I received a County Court Claim Form (N15DT), issue date 9 January 2020, with the installation company claiming £656.14, plus £103.82 interest, plus £60 court fee, plus £70 legal representative costs. The particulars state that it is "for goods supplied and Services rendered" and that it was "invoiced on the 18 February 2019". I have seen no such invoice. The only contract I have had with them is as described above and I have agreed no other work with them.

    While I might agree that the going rate at the time for the installation of the given boiler might have been £2,656.14, I see no reason I should pay the interest, legal fees and court costs.

    I phoned the Financial Ombudsman Service, and they say my case has not yet been assigned to an investigating officer.

    What is my best course of action legally and monetarily? Would it be appropriate to apply for strike out? For the whole amount? Just for that beyond £656.14? Pay up and stop wasting my time and possibly that of others? If I paid them, could they not say that this claim was for some work that, of course, I have not had done and then start action for the work I have had done, that I agreed to in February 2019? To apply for strike out, I would need to use an Application Notice form and pay £255? How does a court decide whether work and/or invoices are fictitious or real?

    Finally, it has emerged (last December) that the open condensate connection to the soil pipe (sewer) was installed without a trap (S-bend), so there's a bit of a smell near the boiler. The installation company's complaints department say they are looking into it. Does this mean the installer has still not completed their side of the January 2019 contract? Is it not unquestionable that they have taken more than a "reasonable time" to complete their side of the contract?
    Last edited by notalawman; 29th January 2020, 12:54:PM.
    Never put yourself on trial

    Will you be able to find a surer proof of an evil and shameful state of education in a city than the necessity of first-rate physicians and judges, not only for the base and mechanical, but for those who claim to have been bred in the fashion of free men? Plato, The Republic, 405
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Is this sufficient for my defence? Should I try to send any supporting documents: order, receipts, email communications, letters etc?

    I have signed no contract with the claimant nor agreed verbally with them for the supply of any goods and/or the provision of any services for which I would make payment of the specific sum of £656.14.

    The only contract I made with the claimant was signed in January 2019 for the installation and servicing of a smart central heating boiler. I paid them £750 then, the remaining £2,877.40 to be paid after installation. When the boiler was installed, problems with its Internet connection device were found. I, nonetheless, paid the claimant company £1,250 at the end of February 2019 since the boiler itself functioned. No other supply of goods or provision of services was agreed or carried out.

    There is nothing for which an invoice dated 18 February 2019 for £656.14 might have been raised, and no invoice so date or for that amount has ever reached me from the claimant.

    The matter of any further payment I might make to the claimant has been with the Financial Ombudsman Service since September 2019, their reference: PNX-3241987-N3J1.

    (1041 characters)

    I acknowledged service of claim, saying I wished to defend all of it, online (MCOL) on 19 January 2020.
    Last edited by notalawman; 21st January 2020, 08:14:AM.
    Never put yourself on trial

    Will you be able to find a surer proof of an evil and shameful state of education in a city than the necessity of first-rate physicians and judges, not only for the base and mechanical, but for those who claim to have been bred in the fashion of free men? Plato, The Republic, 405

    Comment


    • #3
      If one receives a claim (Small Claims Court amount) in which the particulars refer to an invoice that you have never seen, has had no reason to exist, and really beyond reasonable doubt never existed, but you have had work done by the claimant, what do you need to put in your defence?
      It's a small claim, so one doesn't really want to fork out £255 to try to get the claim struck out, but I read that just entering things like "there was no such invoice, and (so) I have no idea what the claims about" may get your defence struck out.
      Does one need to go into all the dealings you have had with the claimant, provide copies of all documents relating to the dealings you have had with the claimant?
      Do you try to contact the claimant's solicitors to try to find out what it's all about?
      I ask this in relation to a thread I started in the Welcome section:
      https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...act-strike-out
      Never put yourself on trial

      Will you be able to find a surer proof of an evil and shameful state of education in a city than the necessity of first-rate physicians and judges, not only for the base and mechanical, but for those who claim to have been bred in the fashion of free men? Plato, The Republic, 405

      Comment


      • #4
        I'll merge your threads
        #staysafestayhome

        Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

        Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, the figures are all very confused aren't they. You have paid £2000 (£750 plus £1250) and initially you said the cost was £3600+.

          They are taking you to court for £656.14. So there's £1000 ish missing ? You mentioned it included a servicing contract - is that where the discrepancy is - have you cancelled that element ?

          Other figures you mention are a bit random.

          You have acknowledged the claim but not yet filed a defence ? What date was the claim issued ?

          A request for a copy of the invoice and a full breakdown of the figures would be in order.

          A subject access request to the claimant ( or original company if it's not them bringing the claim ) as well.

          It isn't a case of striking out - it needs defending. Your defence isn't 'no such invoice no idea what claims about' as that isn't true- it is the figure being claimed that is in question as you have not received an invoice for that amount. You were disputing the debt and didn't reach a final resolution. What is the current status of your ombudsman complaint?

          Did they send a letter before action at all ?
          #staysafestayhome

          Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

          Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
            I'll merge your threads
            Thank you.
            Never put yourself on trial

            Will you be able to find a surer proof of an evil and shameful state of education in a city than the necessity of first-rate physicians and judges, not only for the base and mechanical, but for those who claim to have been bred in the fashion of free men? Plato, The Republic, 405

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
              Well, the figures are all very confused aren't they. You have paid £2000 (£750 plus £1250) and initially you said the cost was £3600+.
              Sorry, I was trying to keep things simple.
              The order was the supply of the boiler, which had a 12-year warranty, its installation, and its servicing throughout the 12 years of its warranty for which I would pay £3,627.40. I'd have my boiler sorted for 12 years, no worries (verbal contract?). I paid a deposit of £750 with the order and was to pay the remaining £2,877.40 immediately after installation. However, the password on the Internet connection device when unpacked together with the boiler on the day of installation was found not to be clear, and I was not asked to make any payment that day. I do not know why they could not have taken it straight back to the supplier that day - 40 minutes, 1 litre of petrol - I don't have a car, my eyesight is not good enough to drive, handed my licence in - installation company (claimant) manager on site (it was the first boiler of its type they had installed), not doing much but phoning the boiler manufacturer and getting incomplete information, and trying to guess the password.

              They are taking you to court for £656.14. So there's £1000 ish missing ? You mentioned it included a servicing contract - is that where the discrepancy is - have you cancelled that element ?
              They sent me a letter date 26 February asking for the £2,877.40. The Internet connection device, which is necessary to effect the warranty - it sends information about whether the boiler needs servicing, had not been replaced, and so I made a payment of just £1,250.
              Why would they raise an invoice for £656.14 on 18 February?
              The Internet connection device was not replaced until July 2019 and full instructions about connecting it, the boiler and the thermostat together were not supplied until August 2019.
              I said over the phone to them that I would prefer now (June/July 2019) to just pay for the installation and stated it on Resolver (July 2019).


              You have acknowledged the claim but not yet filed a defence ? What date was the claim issued ?
              Yes. 9 January 2020.

              A request for a copy of the invoice and a full breakdown of the figures would be in order.
              As, hopefully, I've now explained, no invoice would have been raised on 18 February 2019, but, indeed, I would very much like to know what it is supposed to relate to. Whom should I request it from? I need to pay £1 to their solicitors for a bogus invoice and possibly £255 to the court to force them to send it (and the "full particulars")?

              A subject access request to the claimant ( or original company if it's not them bringing the claim ) as well.
              I've never requested one of those before. In what way might the information be useful? How long might it take to get?

              It isn't a case of striking out - it needs defending. Your defence isn't 'no such invoice no idea what claims about' as that isn't true- it is the figure being claimed that is in question as you have not received an invoice for that amount. You were disputing the debt and didn't reach a final resolution. What is the current status of your ombudsman complaint?
              Well, I'd say that there was no invoice and (strictly speaking) I don't know what one might be for. It's not that I don't want to come to a legally binding concluding agreement, I do, I want to move on, I need to know whom I will want to ask to service the boiler, which has now been installed for nearly a year now, of course.
              Last Tuesday, the Ombudsman Service said the case had not been signed to someone to investigate it.

              Did they send a letter before action at all ?
              I received a letter from the claimant's solicitors dated 22 October 2019 for payment of £2,877.40, the same amount as was claimed by the claimant in two Final Demands. Obviously, this amount omits the £1,250 I had already paid.
              I went to the solicitor's complaints department, and they ultimately established with their client, the claimant, that indeed the £1,250 had been paid. The reply I got from the solicitor's complaints department dated 13 November 2019 was the last I heard from them. It did not make any mention of my making any payment. My email to the complainant's solicitor, which I sent on 14 November 2019 and which received no reply included the lines

              "Under the circumstances, it is not clear to me whether I should await a further letter before action from you in order to ascertain your continued intentions."

              "If your client is prepared to consider any alternative to their last instruction to you, I will, of course, do my best to respond to it as quickly as I can, though it is not clear to me how free I will be to agree to something when the matter is now with the FOS."
              Last edited by notalawman; 21st January 2020, 21:51:PM.
              Never put yourself on trial

              Will you be able to find a surer proof of an evil and shameful state of education in a city than the necessity of first-rate physicians and judges, not only for the base and mechanical, but for those who claim to have been bred in the fashion of free men? Plato, The Republic, 405

              Comment


              • #8
                If it's a backdated invoice ...

                Is it legal? - I'd presume it is.

                I countersigned the Gas Boiler System Commissioning Checklist:

                https://www.intergasheating.co.uk/wp...H-84010401.pdf (Page 76)

                The lines:

                The boiler and associated products have been installed and commissioned in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions

                The operation of the boiler and system controls have been demonstrated to and understood by the customer


                were both checked "Yes". Could the claimant use this to say I agreed they had fulfilled their contractual obligations in this respect?

                If I pay the £889.96 (£656.14, plus £103.82 interest, plus £60 court fee, plus £70 legal representative costs), could they not say that means I have accepted that they completed their contractual obligations with respect to the installation and go on to claim the amount representing the servicing?

                Defence draft:

                No invoice was raised on 18 February 2019, no backdated invoice has ever been presented to me.

                Claimant installed smart central heating boiler in February 2019. Sum of £3,627.40 to include 12-year's servicing. £750 paid with order, £1,250 at end of February, total paid £2,000. The Internet connection device (ICD) had an unclear password.

                ICD not replaced until early July. Final demand issued 16/07/19 for £2,877.40, clearly not taking into account the £1,250 already paid.

                Radiator temperate low with ICD connected. Claimant responded with nonsense, and I put the case on Resolver on 28/07/19. Figure for legally binding concluding payment, servicing element voided, sought.

                Claimant issued another final demand for £2,877.40 the next day, 29/07/19.

                Full instructions for connecting ICD finally supplied August.

                I raised case on Resolver to Ombudsman on 09/09/19.

                Received letter from Pannone, claimant's solicitors, citing £2,877.41 (sic) payable, dated 22/10/19.

                In December, realized condensate trap not fitted.

                The figure of £656.14, or anything near it, has never been put forward.

                (1080 characters)
                Last edited by notalawman; 30th January 2020, 09:26:AM.
                Never put yourself on trial

                Will you be able to find a surer proof of an evil and shameful state of education in a city than the necessity of first-rate physicians and judges, not only for the base and mechanical, but for those who claim to have been bred in the fashion of free men? Plato, The Republic, 405

                Comment

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