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Hello all,
I am very much hoping you can help me. I have a really tough one here. I am at my wits end and significantly affected by the stress. I have tried other forums, but no one seems to want to take this one on and it quickly gets lost on page2/3 etc...!
Firstly I should say that I have read the Newbies thread on the MSE forum three times over and also read many of the other threads on cases and example defences – but none of them (that I can find so far) are applicable to my situation/case.
The full details, dating back to the first PCN can be found on Pepipoo (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=100499)
To summarise the facts:
In 2015 I was employed by an Estate Agency.
This Estate Agency paid, in advance, for two numbered spaces in a flat block car park to be used by employees. The payments were made to the freeholder. There was no written contract – simply the invoices to pay for the space (I have the invoice for the time covering the PCN and email from freeholder confirming it was settled in full).
Early in my employment, the freeholder required that their own permits be shown in the car to prove that the lease of the space was paid for.
It is *assumed* that Premier Park were engaged by the freeholder in 2014 or 2015, as signs were erected and permits sent to the Estate Agency to be displayed in accordance with the signs.
The permits were simple, very light paper discs and prone to sun bleaching.
Though I was considerably displeased that private parking ‘cowboys’ had been employed – I did not want to endlessly fight/appeal/litigate against their PCNs so the permit was reluctantly displayed.
On one occasion in summer when the vehicle windows were open during driving, the permit flew our of the window and had to be recovered. To prevent this happening again when the windows were open – the permit was put in full view on the centre console.
In summer 2015, two PCNs were put on the car within a month of each other. I recall that both were appealed through POPLA (who rejected the appeals). In one of these cases – the permit was actually *fully visible* in PP’s photographic evidence. In the other case – reflection on the window obscure the permit in their evidence.
After denying the debt was owed to PP after the POPLA rejection – I heard nothing until this year, when I was contacted by B W L.
They sent two separate letters, one for each PCN. I requested that they provide full evidence for both PCNs.
They have only continued pursuing me for the one where the permit was *not visible in the evidence* (they sent a letter about the other PCN stating that they were communicating with their client about “further evidence” – I have heard nothing further about that PCN and can only assume they are not looking to take it further due to the permit being clearly visible in the PPC’s own evidence).
I complied with the Pre-Action Protocol and submitted a defence (as seen on the last page of the above-linked thread). B W L simply stated that “By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with our Client.” And that I have breached the contract.
I have now received a claim form from the County Court Business Centre.
Having read so many cases, I cannot find one like this. It is similar to the ‘tickets for parking in your own space’ cases, but I am not a resident of the flat block, do not have a tenancy or lease agreement and it is the Estate Agency that rent to space.
I am unsure as to the best argument for my defence. It is my word against theirs that the permit was displayed as their evidence in this case does not clearly show the permit on the centre console. I am concerned that a Judge will simply rule that I was supposed to display a permit on the windscreen and did not, and as I had displayed a permit in all other instances I had clearly recognised the authority and contract of the PPC therefore I must pay for the breach of contract.
I have completed the AOF and am sending today.
My current defence ideas are:
I strongly dispute the statement that the driver's “only right to enter the land in question is on the terms and conditions that apply”. This is simply not the case. I had an existing rental agreement directly with the freeholder for the car parking space I was parked in.
As an employee of the Estate Agency who had paid in full for lease of the space and thus land-holder, I was fully authorised to park and the display of a permit is irrelevant to this lease.
The parking company have already proven in their other PCN that a permit was visible on the centre console. It was the same in this case.
There was no loss to the landowner as they were fully paid. The only individuals who could be negatively affected by unauthorised vehicles parked in the space were the employees of the land-holding estate agent. As I was one of them it is none-sensical to issue me a PCN to punish me for parking in a space I was authorised to park in.
(I have read that no-loss arguments may not work..)
Overall – I am determined not to let them get away with this, on principle alone I cannot let them win, the more people roll over and let them intimidate and bully, the more they will do it to honest people.
I know I have a strong defence, but I don’t know how to argue that defence compellingly and ‘compliantly’.
I appreciate any and all advice!!
I am very much hoping you can help me. I have a really tough one here. I am at my wits end and significantly affected by the stress. I have tried other forums, but no one seems to want to take this one on and it quickly gets lost on page2/3 etc...!
Firstly I should say that I have read the Newbies thread on the MSE forum three times over and also read many of the other threads on cases and example defences – but none of them (that I can find so far) are applicable to my situation/case.
The full details, dating back to the first PCN can be found on Pepipoo (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=100499)
To summarise the facts:
In 2015 I was employed by an Estate Agency.
This Estate Agency paid, in advance, for two numbered spaces in a flat block car park to be used by employees. The payments were made to the freeholder. There was no written contract – simply the invoices to pay for the space (I have the invoice for the time covering the PCN and email from freeholder confirming it was settled in full).
Early in my employment, the freeholder required that their own permits be shown in the car to prove that the lease of the space was paid for.
It is *assumed* that Premier Park were engaged by the freeholder in 2014 or 2015, as signs were erected and permits sent to the Estate Agency to be displayed in accordance with the signs.
The permits were simple, very light paper discs and prone to sun bleaching.
Though I was considerably displeased that private parking ‘cowboys’ had been employed – I did not want to endlessly fight/appeal/litigate against their PCNs so the permit was reluctantly displayed.
On one occasion in summer when the vehicle windows were open during driving, the permit flew our of the window and had to be recovered. To prevent this happening again when the windows were open – the permit was put in full view on the centre console.
In summer 2015, two PCNs were put on the car within a month of each other. I recall that both were appealed through POPLA (who rejected the appeals). In one of these cases – the permit was actually *fully visible* in PP’s photographic evidence. In the other case – reflection on the window obscure the permit in their evidence.
After denying the debt was owed to PP after the POPLA rejection – I heard nothing until this year, when I was contacted by B W L.
They sent two separate letters, one for each PCN. I requested that they provide full evidence for both PCNs.
They have only continued pursuing me for the one where the permit was *not visible in the evidence* (they sent a letter about the other PCN stating that they were communicating with their client about “further evidence” – I have heard nothing further about that PCN and can only assume they are not looking to take it further due to the permit being clearly visible in the PPC’s own evidence).
I complied with the Pre-Action Protocol and submitted a defence (as seen on the last page of the above-linked thread). B W L simply stated that “By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with our Client.” And that I have breached the contract.
I have now received a claim form from the County Court Business Centre.
Having read so many cases, I cannot find one like this. It is similar to the ‘tickets for parking in your own space’ cases, but I am not a resident of the flat block, do not have a tenancy or lease agreement and it is the Estate Agency that rent to space.
I am unsure as to the best argument for my defence. It is my word against theirs that the permit was displayed as their evidence in this case does not clearly show the permit on the centre console. I am concerned that a Judge will simply rule that I was supposed to display a permit on the windscreen and did not, and as I had displayed a permit in all other instances I had clearly recognised the authority and contract of the PPC therefore I must pay for the breach of contract.
I have completed the AOF and am sending today.
My current defence ideas are:
I strongly dispute the statement that the driver's “only right to enter the land in question is on the terms and conditions that apply”. This is simply not the case. I had an existing rental agreement directly with the freeholder for the car parking space I was parked in.
As an employee of the Estate Agency who had paid in full for lease of the space and thus land-holder, I was fully authorised to park and the display of a permit is irrelevant to this lease.
The parking company have already proven in their other PCN that a permit was visible on the centre console. It was the same in this case.
There was no loss to the landowner as they were fully paid. The only individuals who could be negatively affected by unauthorised vehicles parked in the space were the employees of the land-holding estate agent. As I was one of them it is none-sensical to issue me a PCN to punish me for parking in a space I was authorised to park in.
(I have read that no-loss arguments may not work..)
Overall – I am determined not to let them get away with this, on principle alone I cannot let them win, the more people roll over and let them intimidate and bully, the more they will do it to honest people.
I know I have a strong defence, but I don’t know how to argue that defence compellingly and ‘compliantly’.
I appreciate any and all advice!!
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